US N+A World Cup Discussion Part Deux

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by schrutebuck, Jun 21, 2014.

  1. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Possession =/= Control.

    You can have the ball 70% of the time, while the other team controls the run of play. Case in point:

    Brazil 58% Possession. Netherlands 42%. The latter won 3-0 and controlled the run of play.
     
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  2. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Costa Rica is a fine team. I rewatched the Costa Rica - Italy match this weekend. Very impressive. A better performance than we had in any game save for Portugal.

    I don't know how long that quality will last. It's a tiny country, everything has to come together for the team to be that good. But right now, I would rate CR as every bit our equal on a neutral field.
     
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  3. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Costa Rica played a great battling game against Holland. Group G set up perfectly for them. Uruguay the first Group G opponent did no warm weather training. Italy the 2nd was coming off the Manaus match.

    This will be the most competitive Gold Cup in some time.

    Possession doesn't equal control. No kidding. That wasn't the only number posted.
     
  4. Bclay

    Bclay Member

    May 29, 2012
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have to disagree that they had the better of it. I don't have the time to watch the whole game over again, but from my memory, neither team really had many great chances (it was played in a blizzard after all...). We were on top for 75 minutes, so it makes sense that we'd sit back a bit and prevent them from getting as many good attacks going. Even with that, we still had near 60% possession. And Dempsey should have had a penalty around the 40th minute.

    Looking through the highlights, I don't think any of their 4 shots on goal were that threatening. 1 actually seemed to be a mishit ball off the guy's knee that happened to make its way toward goal, easily scooped up by Guzan. We were hardly "holding on for dear life" as the original post said.
     
  5. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    I'm not sure - this seems like a change to the language that I'm used to. Run of play without majority of the possession seems odd to me. Netherlands were much more effective, took their chances much better, were the better team, but I'm not sure I'd say they had the run of play with that possession gap.
     
  6. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    This is my memory as well.
     
  7. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

    .
    United States
    May 4, 2006
    Petaluma
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think "run of play" is more of a subjective sense of a game, and while generally it's going to be tied to possession, sometimes possession really does look toothless. I was actually shocked when I saw the stats for Netherlands-Brazil, as it just didn't SEEM like Brazil had the ball more than Netherlands did.
     
  8. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    I personally think it means dominating the ball and controlling more possession. Like Belgium or Ghana against us. They had the run of play.
     
  9. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

    .
    United States
    May 4, 2006
    Petaluma
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They did, and that's more typical. But would you say Brazil had the run of play against Netherlands? Because from what I saw Brazil may have had the ball for but it never really felt like they were in control of the game.
     
  10. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    I thought some of the Netherlands goals came against the run of play. Heck, the first Germany one vs. Brazil did too.
     
  11. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

    .
    United States
    May 4, 2006
    Petaluma
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, I guess it's just how you define that term. And I agree with you on the first Germany goal, as Brazil looked pretty dangerous at first.
     
  12. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Using Google:

    http://premierskills.britishcouncil.org/en/blog/mark/against-run-play

    Therefore, controlling the run of play means "attacking more" so that everyone thinks they're likely to score.

    Brazil had more possession, but were not threatening the Netherlands goal. Hence, they did not control the run of play.
     
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  13. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    Wait so some dude on a soccer for dummies blog decides this for us? Not sure I totally agree with that definition or that 2 components are required. Ghana couldn't seem to threaten to score against us for much of their time attacking but that doesn't change that they had the run of play.
     
  14. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

    Jun 22, 2005
    DE
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #11239 ChrisSSBB, Jul 16, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2014
    I have looked for stats where the US stands out. Below are stats I was able to find where the US was at or very near top or bottom for all teams.

    Below is courtesy of Whoscored.com

    USA Highlights

    * Conceded most shots per game of all teams - 23.7 (next closest was Ecuador with 18. All team avg 13.3)
    * Spent most time in own half/game - 34% (next closest Iran at 31%)
    * Tied at 4th with Honduras for least amount in opposition half/game - 22%
    (I believe they mean "third" instead of "half" for action zone)
    * 26th for % possession 43.2%
    * Tied for 6th at aerials won/game - 16.8
    * Had worst differential of shots-taken to shots-conceded per game at -12.5 vs all team avg - .5


    Below is courtesy of Squawka for USA compared to all teams

    * Most defensive actions/game of all teams - 62.5 vs avg of 45
    * Most clearances/game of all teams - 43 vs avg of 29
    * Tied with Ecuador for most blocked shots/game - 5.3 vs avg of 3.1
    * Most GK saves/game - 5.3 vs avg of 2.8
    * Most GK diving saves/game - 4 vs avg of 1.5

    From MLSsoccer.com chalkboards for US matches against Ghana, Port, Germany, Belgium

    * US had fewer ball recoveries overall than opponent in all matches
    * US had fewer ball recoveries in opponents half than opponent in all matches
    * US averaged 45 ball recoveries (42%) vs 62 (58%) for each of their opponents.
    * US averaged 8.5 ball recoveries in opponents half (35%) vs 15.8 (65%) for each of their opponents.

    From FIFA.com
    * US ran greater distance than each of their opponents, in each match.
    * US had fewer dangerous attacks than opponents in each match
    0pponents avg 62 /match US averaged 36/match

    This is a tough way to spend a tournament. Klinsmann wants the US to show less respect and go after opponents more but there is little evidence that they can do that other than it worked in the first 1' of the tournament due to great work by CD and "oh, did the match start?" defending by Ghana. When he was waving players forward in the last minute against Portugal, he was going against the odds of what his team was likely to produce. They were not very good at recovering ball in opponents half, or recovering ball anywhere compared to opponents. What they did do was clear lots of balls, block shots, and all that other last minute defensive stuff compared to other teams. JK was waving players forward more from what he would like to see happen rather than what his team was likely able to successfully manage. It was too chaotic/disjointed to successfully win balls as a team. In the end, you wind up with tired players struggling to keep shape and eventually are exposed or stuck defending in their end. Seems similar to a number of other USMNT editions.
     
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  15. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    Why not just post that in Mexico why don't ya! ;)
     
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  16. RebelSoccer

    RebelSoccer Member

    Jun 25, 2010
    Birmingham, AL
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's definitely how I've always viewed it. Heck, let's go back to the Spain v Netherlands match... Spain had 57% possession but nobody would argue that they "controlled" that game.

    I also don't necessarily think that "run of play" necessarily means that a team is controlling the match... if two teams are playing and Team A jumps out to a 2-0 lead and then goes into their defensive shell and lets Team B wear themselves out attacking a solid defensive shell, is Team B really "controlling" the game at that point?
     
  17. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What did Ray Hudson say about possession without penetration?
     
  18. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Step #1 - Be good enough to possess the ball
    Step #2 - Be good enough to possess the ball and do something with it

    In CONCACAF, against the minnows, we achieve Step #2. At the World Cup against good opponents we generally can't reach Step #1.
     
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  19. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

    .
    United States
    May 4, 2006
    Petaluma
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "That's what she said"?
     
  20. Spursfan1

    Spursfan1 Member+

    Sep 7, 2010
    Atlanta
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think we are getting better. Its going to take more time.
     
  21. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Oh, we are. I remember when we struggled to possess even in CONCACAF. It's a long process.
     
  22. ImaPuppy

    ImaPuppy Member+

    Aug 10, 2009
    Using too many parentheses
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    Figured you guys would like this:

     
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  23. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    All kinds of ways to paint a picture.

    Here are 2010 vs 2014 stats.

    Total Games Played 4 4

    Red Cards 0 0

    Passes Completed/Top Country 3929 Spain; 4157 Germany

    USA Passes Completed/Rank 1252/14______1676/9

    Pass Completion Percentage/Top Country 80% Spain_______85% Italy

    USA Pass Completion Percentage/Rank: 66%/28_______77%/11

    Elo Rating of Opposition(at the time of the first game of that year) 4 46 57 42_______32 8 3 18
     
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  24. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    It goes without saying that in terms of travel and strength of opposition only Australia had it more tough. Yet the US improved the passing.
     
  25. Spursfan1

    Spursfan1 Member+

    Sep 7, 2010
    Atlanta
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    thanks for the passing stats.

    I think Alexi has it right.
    This is a better version of what we have seen from the US.
     

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