Alert: Uruguay Vs. Argentina pre/pbp/post match thread[R]

It's true that I haven't lived the Argentine experience but maybe I can see the results more objectively, and it looks a little needlessly dysfunctional from the outside when you see Messi following down Riquelme's path.

There has been a lot of talk from Barcelona about Messi coming back to Barcelona unsmiling, depressed and different. Thanks a lot. It's not you, but you exhibit a lot of speculative, deeply personal criticism which many others must also vocalize, and which seems to be getting to him in a very negative way. If certain criticism doesn't light a fire, then it hurts your cause.

 

you have been ready to attack messi any time his name comes up, so i just have to ask you something. You always say the qualifiers don't matter (i completely agree) and the only thing that is important is finishing in the top 4. b/c of that, you are behind maradona completely despite him giving us our most embarrassing defeat in history at bolivia, and only our second home defeat ever in qualifiers. yet messi, who played a big role in us qualifying whether you want to admit it or not, should get ripped to shreds? he helped his team qualify, so before you say he will never achieve anything for argentina wait until he has played a WC in his prime as a key member of the team.

also, messi's patriotsim/how close he has been in playing for spain has been something you have loved to bring up. now, an italian paper corriere dello sport has said that a velez boy mauro zarate is could play for italy...i'm not saying this story has or doesn't have legs, but it is a story none the less. What are your thoughts on his patriotism if he were to play for italy? i'm not saying it will happen, but if anything comes up that is at all negative about messi you pounce, but what are your thoughts on zarate? what about barrios? lets agree that players that represent argentina are argentine, and those who play for other nations are not. i will hold no grudge against zarate or barrios unless they actually play for a different country, until then they are argentine. messi, may have "just shown up to play for argentina to boost his own career" as you say, but so what. he made his choice. i think the messi attacks have gotten way too over the top

 

yep

 

Oh boy it's like I never left LMAO. Seriously if anyone is going to talk about supporting the drama, the team, the nation, then why all the hate, and other bull that is being slung around rather quickly in my opinion?

Listen to ourselves, I love Veron 1998, I hate Veron 2002, Riquelme is the best, Riquelme is too slow, Roman is a " pecho frio ", Messi is the best player in the world, Messi has no heart for us, Messi is not a real Argentine, Tevez is guaranteed a spot, Tevez must be replaced, Tevez was ruined in England, and on, and on ,and on, and now I get to hear ad naseum about the " Argentine experience ", que me chupan el culo con eso, I had the Argentine experience , f@ck it ok?!?!?
The real fact remains that our AFA is a mafia peice of sh!t and our curent coach as great a player he once was is crap as a technical director, PERIOD, within this we have infighting, uncertainties, mafia dealings and wheelings, glory hunting media pricks who look for the next juicy story and thus cruxcify anything and anyone in the hopes of getting a peice. Well I say BASTA, you want to support Argentina then start getting logical and rational and really give it and stick it to the arseholes who are behind this bullsh!t that is now the "Argentine experience". Thank you, rant over.

 

Maybe he was "just angry" like Reutemann...

 

Messi's not worthy of a double standard or deserving of anything except WPOTY for last season with Barca. Personally I'd switch managers before I benched him though. Just in your own self interest. As it is, Messi's recent performances for Argentina are taken by most of the world as more organizational incompetence than a reflection on him.

 

He's 22, let's just keep that in mind. Let's also keep in mind that at that age Maradona was getting sent off in disgrace against Brazil in 1982. I'm not comparing the players but had this forum existed back then I can't imagine the things people would be saying about him.

Let's wait till he actually has an opportunity to perform on the WC before we discard him. There are players that suck in eliminatorias and later are excellent in the WC just like there are players that are excellent in eliminatorias buck suck at the WC. We know who they are.

Well it depends if you consider the Copa America meaningful.

Messi deserves criticism no doubt about it but he's not the only one who deserves it. That's the issue here and that's were it parallels the criticism of Riquelme. Both of them were singled out. I know it's what the #10 represents but somehow I think if both players weren't wearing the 10 the criticism would have been the same.

 

The more I think about it, the more obvious it becomes. Riquelme quit the second time because he must have felt insulted, not necessarily by Maradona's words, but by being undervalued in favor of someone who will never be able to carry the NT team. I think Riquelme knows that Messi is incapable of leading Argentina to anything worthy of note, and proud prick that he is, left us all to find out by ourselves.

I wonder if he would come back if Diego gives him the #10 and makes him the "eje" of the team. Or is it too late now?

 

so Messi has not had a good game for the senior NT ?? We would not even win the olympics without him. The biggest talent this nation has had since diego and you want to give him away for what???
I bet people here would be asking for Diego's head too after 82.
Fact is Messi is gonna play in the WC and could very well shine. After all we will be facing disorganized African teams, European teams and possibly Brazil. None of that intimidating South American setting with refs favoring the home side and 3 defenders breaking Messi's leg with no punishment whatsoever. I guess we will see soon enough

 

I do not think anybody is saying Lio has not had a good game with us. That is far from it. But the problem is if he is doing his magic with Barcelona then do it with us. The games we needed him the most i.e. Brasil,Paraguay,Peru and Uruguay he was really nowhere to be found. Yes we qualified without Lio's help and that was the first step just to make it. And Lio will have his time to shine in South Africa. Like I have said earlier, Lio does very well vs European teams but crowd a few players around him and well he looks a bit lost. Lio has now until mid June(Maybe when we kickoff) to get his act together. If some people are superstitious(Which I try not to be, but when WC comes around I am) then the "stars" are pointing to us to win. Brasil had not won a WC in 24 since Pele left, 24 years for us not winning a WC since Diego left. World Cup is outside of Europe, no team outside of Europe has won a WC that was not staged in Europe. So is it destiny? We just need Lio to be the magician that he is. Or else, if he thinks this is bad?? If he performance poorly, goodnight Lio; might as well retire. Because not sure how he will take it at the 2011 Copa America.

 

I don't understand this criticism of Messi. Sure he hasn't been doing well. But the team as a whole has been shit, right from the brain trust to the players on the field, and in the context of that, Messi's failures are only marginal. I just don't see why he should be criticised by an army of 'know it all' fans on BS. I see his failures as only symptomatic of the ineptness of the structure and management of the NT.

 

As far as waiting for him to be a key member of the team, that has already happened, he's the #10 and in Argentina it doesn't get any more key than that.

Yea but what I'm saying is now wait for him to play a world cup as a key player...i don't know how you can say you wouldn't care if he left...if messi walked away from the NT and continued scoring goals for Barca, anything short of winning the WC w/ out him, and people would be screaming for messi and saying how if he had been they we would have won.

Once again, I don't think Messi is the player that Diego was, and I don't expect Messi to have a WC like Diego did in mexico 86 at SA 2010, but at 22 , maradona had never played in a CA or WCQ and was basically being judged off of friendlies. i'm just saying wait til SA...

Messi keeps getting ripped on this board and being told to grow a pair, well Mascherano, who is the captain, has been pathetic. he was the one who gave the ball away against peru...not messi. masch is considered the best DM in the world and is captain of the team, he deserves more criticism than anyone. he was also (maybe) begging the other team to stop trying, would people care if he left? i would we need masch in this WC

since maradona has taken over, the only times we have played good attacking football were: france friendly, venezuela match, 1st half against ecuador, russia friendly, 1st half against peru... there is one constant in all these matches...Veron wasn't there. people are ripping on messi for some bad qualifiers, completely disregarding his play in the OG and CA, yet Veron has really sucked more every time he has played. veron couldn't do anything in 2002 in his prime, why at the age of 35 should anything be expected of him? Veron is supposed to be diego's "coach on the field" and he has done/proven nothing other than a deflected shot against uruguay.

 

Good to see Moishe defending Messi, if only in a misquote.
Seriously, who is doing a good job for you guys, from the administration down to the players. DiMaria? Maybe you want to give him the 10 and then crucify him.