Latest from Tulsa (and OKC) ---- MLS remains interested GLENN HIBDON World Sports Writer 09/10/2003 Tulsa World (Final Home Edition), Page B3 of Sports View in Print (PDF) Format Dallas Burn forward Jason Kreis gets the header against Nick Garcia and the Kansas City Wizards during their exhibition match in Tulsa last April. STEPHEN HOLMAN / Tulsa World file -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Without owners, chances for a state franchise are slim. No news could be bad news for fans wanting to see Major League SOCCER in Oklahoma. Although MLS chief operating officer Mark Abbott refused to rule it out, the chances of either Tulsa or Oklahoma City landing a franchise for the 2005 season appear to be slim. "We have not identified ownership groups in either market, but we are still interested," Abbott said. "We're continuing to take a look and see how things develop over the fall. It's still possible for it to happen in 2005, but clearly some things have to come together." Tulsa's holdup is a playing field. With none on the drawing board, an uphill struggle looms for anyone hoping to secure a franchise. In Oklahoma City, Express Sports LLC, headed by Bob Funk, has failed to locate ownership partners. "We're still interested, but we have not found any partners to date, and we have not had communication with MLS in two months," said Brad Lund, chief executive officer of Express Sports. "It's at a complete standstill, but it's not as if either party has eliminated the other by any means." Both Tulsa and Oklahoma City had MLS preseason games last spring, and over 3,500 fans signed up to purchase season tickets in Tulsa. "We need a clear picture of how a stadium can be financed and then to pull together an ownership group," Abbott said. "We remain enthusiastic about our potential there, and we remain very interested in the market." Renovations are still going on with SOCCER in mind at Wantland Stadium on the University of Central Oklahoma campus in Edmond, but Express Sports decided to purchase the Oklahoma RedHawks, Oklahoma City's Triple-A baseball team. "It was a much more urgent situation," Lund said. "I'm not giving up on the MLS, and I still have my heart into it. I really believe Oklahoma City or Tulsa would be a perfect fit for the MLS because they need to get away from large markets and get into medium-sized markets." ---Tulsans just voted "yes" on the Vision 2025 package by a 60-40 margin... wonder if this will embolden city leaders to find creative ways to finance a soccer stadium... http://2worksforyou.com/newshold/vision.shtml
Don't believe everything you read and hear. Writers can only print what the have confirmed and on the record. There are something that will get confirmed soon but just aren't out right yet.
City still waiting on MLS expansion decision 2003-09-13 By Francisco Ojeda The Oklahoman The decision for Major League Soccer expansion is nearing, and the Oklahoma City area remains a top candidate for a team that will begin play in 2005. However, the chances are reduced since one of the two expansion sites has been determined. San Diego is the likely destination for a team that will be owned by Mexican investor Jorge Vergara, who owns the Chivas of Guadalajara, one of the most popular and successful soccer teams in Mexico. "The process for expansion has always been intense," said Mark Abbott, MLS chief operating officer. "That leaves one spot left for expansion in 2005, but we plan on expanding beyond that as well." Abbott said the San Diego team will probably begin play in two years, but there is a possibility it could play in 2004.With a large Hispanic fan base, San Diego is a good fit, Abbott said. Several cities are vying for the final spot in the expansion process, which will be announced in late November or early December. Cities high on the list with the Oklahoma City area include Houston, Seattle, Minneapolis-St. Paul and Cleveland. The Oklahoma City area team would play at a renovated Wantland Stadium on the University of Central Oklahoma campus in Edmond. Wantland is the smallest facility among the other potential expansion sites. "They are still very much in the mix," Abbott said of the Oklahoma City area team. "They are a very serious target market. But clearly, there needs to be some things that need to come into place. Right now, we are focusing on stadium discussions." UCO officials were unavailable for comment. The big question mark remains the lack of local ownership. Express Sports remains non-committal. Express Sports owns the Oklahoma City Blazers hockey team and will likely be approved this month as new owner of the Oklahoma RedHawks baseball team. "We're still interested, but we are not going to go in alone, and we haven't gotten full commitments from other potential local ownership groups," said Brad Lund, Express Sports chief executive officer. "We are in no hurry to make a decision yet." Many of the cities are in various stages of the expansion process that includes a soccer specific stadium, a local ownership group and a strong fan base. "There is no timetable set for everything to come together," Abbott said. "The decision for the expansion market won't be made until the end of the year, so we will see in the next couple of months. But everything needs to be done before we make or decision." ----------------------------------------------- I told you it's not all doom and gloom like the other article would suggest.
Whatever Writers don't have to write what is "confirmed and on the record." Otherwise, you'd never read any speculation, rumors, or op ed pieces. However, if your assertion was true then the Tulsa World bit about "chances for a state franchise are slim" would be just as true as anything else. Frankly, if we didn't "believe everything you read and hear" then we shouldn't listen to what you have written in the first place. Your self-hinted insiders status about goings on is a bit tiresome...if you have something to say, say it. If you know of something "insidery" and can't say anything about it, then don't. Does OKC have a shot? Ya. But I hope it falls short. A city 30-something in TV market size. How is that attractive? A renovated stadium that is positioned so poorly that we should be discussing the Edmond franchise, not the OKC franchise. I mean really, answer me this: how much further north could they put it without it being the Guthrie franchise? Heck, OKC is in the top 3 US cities in total area. It is sprawling. Wouldn't something more centralized be, oh, a bit more enticing? Also, this would be the smallest stadium in the league after renovation. Sure, the Blazers are nice. RedHawks...nice ballpark anyway. What of the Wranglers? Cavs? Heck, what about the Coyotes? I know. I've heard it before..."but the Wranglers owners stunk", "but the CBA stinks", "but who watches roller hockey". Excuses, excuses. Let's turn this around. If OKC wants into the MLS club, tell me how OKC helped out the Arena league? CBA? RHI? Sure, the CHL support is great. But saying "despite all of the other leagues we disappointed or have supported in nominal fashion, you should consider us for Major League Soccer because we support our minor league hockey team" doesn't sound like a great cover letter argument. Why should MLS include OKC? Conveniently positioned between Dallas and KC might be the most resounding reason. What about all the youth soccer? Tell me this...is there a demonstrable correlation between support for a youth sport and a pro team in the same city? Could I see something more concrete other than a generalized opinion? What about ticket support? Didn't MLS ask for 7,500 season tickets to be sold? Didn't Tulsa at least sell SOME tickets? Even if you argue that Tulsa's sales aren't binding, blah, blah, blah, didn't they at least try? So, what, the league makes a simple request to demonstrate interest in the league and the ownership group (what little there isn't) doesn't even bother to lift a finger to get a few more half-hearted non-commitments than Tulsa got? If anything, you should thank me for this rant here as it will likely inspire a few backlash comments which should more than double the current OKC conversations on both BigSoccer and MLSinOKC.
Re: Re: Whatever Damn... 2 posts and he got that... It took me months to get the blessing of fire... that means one of two things... - I was a smarter rook than mouser is - Almighty Mike Segroves is as pissed as I am about losing a defensive tackle this early in the season In any case... Just a thought in the middle of my halftime Stoopser (bad pun, I know... screw me... I'll go die in mouser's fire)... couldn't a retrofit of the Brick to be some sort of a SSS (right field fence removed, get some sort of moveable mound)... If Express owns both, then they could work with the schedule to make it fit... Just an idea...
Re: Re: Whatever "Notice the Neanderthal-like qualities of the Oklahoman. Unable to cope with the intellectual aspects of his aggressor and frustrated with his inability to mollify the animal anger of his id, the Oklahoman lashes out with a threat to another posters life." Normally, I just lurk. However, when I come across a post this insulting, I just have ta' jump in. So, thanks for inspiring me to join in the fun. However, you let this guy get your goat (he's got some points) and you essentially threaten him with his life...or certainly his home. Mike, you seem to be an active participant on the boards. Perhaps well respected. But given your post, I not only cannot respect your position of supporting OKC expansion but I could not possibly respect you which I 'spose isn't a great loss to you. Not only that, but you're in a bit of a compromised position now.....Here's ta' hoping that nothing untoward happens ta' Mr. Mouser cuz I think you'd find yourself in quite a pickle. Oh, BTW, here's to hoping that all Oklahomans arent as unskilled as you in trying to convince others that you deserve a team. Sheesh! Oh, OMT, tSP's idea of tryin' to do something with the baseball diamond sounds good to me. Other cities have success when movin' all arenas, parks, etc, near downtown, like Denver or Stuttgart. Makes sense. ttg
Jane, you ignorant slut. Oh, like when the Daily Oklahoman reported weeks ago that Lamar Hunt was interested in being an owner/investor for an Oklahoma City team?... or the idea a few weeks back that OKC/Edmond's local ownership group was practically a done deal... or that channel 9 in OKC/Edmond gave the odds for an MLS team at 50/50?... or maybe the laughable article where Barry Trammel gives us the lowdown on European soccer stadia?... or maybe your post a few months back quoting an un-named reporter talking to an un-named Kansas City player that implied the 9,200 fans that showed for the exhibition game in Edmond were somehow better fans than the 14,000 fans in Tulsa?... or maybe still the implication last winter that Express Sports was going to be, if not the sole owner/investor for an MLS team, at the very least the majority owner?... remember any of that? I sure do. I remember after hearing so much bluster from the Daily Oklahoman and you OKC folks that I felt the Edmond/OKC proposal was MLS's "bird in the hand"-- I won't make that mistake twice. The Tulsa World article simply reports the glass as "half empty." The Daily Oklahoman well... it's "half-full"... of what, I'm not so sure.
This article in the Daily Joke-lahoman pisses me off. How in the hell does Sr. Ojeda write a story so rosy when: * In the article it mentions that Express Sports is not going to be the sole owner, and they aren't finding any partners. * The article ignores the fact that plastic grass has been put in the stadium since they had so many problems with grass last year. * The article ignores that there are already 3 tennants for the stadium, thus blowing any chance of weekend fixtures late in the season. OKC, should NOT be considered. Soccer in Oklahoma can work, but when it already has 3-strikes against it forget it !!!
Well Mike, if you simply cared less, I suppose you wouldn't respond in idiot fashion. You wouldn't respond at all. I make an argument and you say"hope I die in a fire." I suppose if I said that "I hope you and your family were found horribly disemboweled" when you attempted to make a point that this would meet your satisfaction? That's right. Dismiss the entire argument because I mentioned Arena ball or the CBA. But don't be man enough to completely just walk away from something that irks you. Either put in two decent cents or shut up, Mike. Or, to be more like you, should I say "How can I take you seriously with such a subclever name?" I don't think OKC deserves a team for a variety of reasons. There. I said it again. Oh, yeah. And to quote myself from earlier "If anything, you should thank me for this rant here as it will likely inspire a few backlash comments which should more than double the current OKC conversations on both BigSoccer and MLSinOKC."
Re: Whatever What!? What school of journalism and mass communication did you go to? Of course writers have to write was is "confirmed and on the record" or else their papers would get sued for libel. I think you're thinking of tabloids like The Sun or Weekly World News. Even papers of lesser repute such as The Daily Oklahoman does still have those kinds of standards known as journalistic integrity (though sometimes you have to look hard). Newspapers and the news media are in the business of fact. That's why they don't write about things until they're confirmed. Op-Ed pieces are just that, options. They state what one particular person believes to be true. What we're talking about are stories and reports. They're lists of facts strung together into a coherent story that helps communicate to us what there is to know on a particular subject that we can be rest assured is the truth. Do I look like I write for a paper? This is a sports forum. It's okay to have rumors run rampant here. It's what this place is about. Sports forums are places where you should really believe less about the content than even a tabloid. At least they have risqué photos of celebrities. And does that mean you should take my inside info with a grain of salt? Probably. I'm only writing about rumors about what I hear second hand so who knows but then again, look where you are. A sports forum. [sarcasm]Well crap. What the hell were the people in LA thinking building their fancy-shmancy SSS in Carson, CA? That's not in LA. And damn, LA is such a population dense city too. And oh yeah, what are the MetroStars thinking building a SSS in Harrison, NJ? Why are the Fire looking around at building their SSS in Chicago suburbs? That's not centrally located. And what the hell? A SSS for the Dallas Burn in Frisco? Shouldn't it be the Frisco Burn instead? I mean, it's not in Dallas anymore. And how much more north could they get without it being the Denton franchise?[/sarcasm] Please. On top of Edmond being one the fastest growing cities in the state and having direct access via both I-235/Broadway Ext. and I-35, it's not at all that big a deal. The stadium will look great, it's in a great neighborhood (like there are really bad ones in Edmond) and it's a very nice city (asthetically at least) also. You were talking about how sprawled out OKC was earlier so that must mean that the people here are used to driving a little while to get places. It takes like 15 minutes to drive from Edmond to downtown OKC. That's not a deal breaker in the least. Dallas and Nashville both supported their CHL teams for crap yet that both got NHL teams. What the hell? And then Nashville got a NFL team on top of that? I didn't know the attendance at Vanderbilt games was so overwhelming that the NFL had no choice but to place a team there. And then obviously since the Rams moved from LA, LA failed to make the team work. I just don't understand why people are trying to get a team back into LA? Don't they know it's a money trap? LA people just don't support pro football! Trying to make a correlation between minor league attendance and future major league attendance is a fool's errand. Plus the NBA,NFL,NHL and MLB are successes for a variety of reason, mostly because they have the best system and know the best way to make it work. That's why they've outlasted everyone else. Or because OKC was willing to build a SSS, showed fan supported and in the end just pretty much wanted MLS here. OKC wanted to talk, MLS was more than happy to listen and OKC said things that MLS wanted to hear. That's why we're still talking about this so close to the end of the season when they're going to announce expansion franchises.
Originally posted by Mike Segroves Maybe if you cared, you wouldn't have trolled for abuse. Argument is one thing, but if that post was your best stuff, I'd get ready for failure. Pot to kettle... pot to kettle... come in, kettle... Troll or not, I agree with most of what was posted. Once again, I proclaim Mike Segroves to be the Quasimodo of B.S. Thanks, here's hoping you've got oily rags stored next to a space heater in your garage. Fine example of B.S. Where are Tulsa & Cleveland's teams going to play? Come back when they have a site. Season ticket drive??? Hello??? I guess Phase II of 18,000 seats is too small then, Mr. MLS Stadium Sizer, or Phase III of construction that would add a North Stand to bring it to 22,000. But hey, if we can't drop 60 million for a HDC, then why bother, right? Asshat. 3. Here's where you really unload with both barrels. Into your own face that is. More b.s. from quasimodo. Didn't Tulsa's CBA team fold too? I guess that takes them and every other city that had someone park a CBA franchise in it is off the MLS. Props to Isiah Thomas for putting that dog of a league down. The NBA already has two developmental leagues. The NCAA and Eastern Europe. Tulsa also hosted a WUSA exhibition the previous year that attracted over 4,000 fans in Broken Arrow with ZERO publicity. Cleveland's tradition has pretty much been only in indoor soccer... not much if you ask me, but still miles ahead of OKC, where the tradition is the Blazers... considering I've never seen a single tv commercial for the Blazers that didn't involved fisticuffs, I doubt they'll have much patience for MLS. No, Tulsa sold no tickets, NONE, Zero, Nada, Nil. No money changed hands, not even a deposit. 3-5000 some odd people "pledged" to buy tickets. MLS didn't ask them to... Tulsa has done what MLS requested... they did the feasability study MLS requested (while Express Sports did an "in-house study" on the cheap)... they hosted a successful exhibition game (MLS didn't suggest pricing)... they had a presumably successful season ticket drive (if it weren't we wouldn't see the 7,500 requirement put on OKC)... they worked and are still working to finance a stadium in a PRIME area, and lobbied state legislators for a "sales tax enterprise zone" in a site for a SSS. No, the politicos were afraid a SSS as part of the first Vision 2025 initiative would jepeordize its passage... but if Boeing comes calling, guess what? Of the $350 million in incentives approved by over 60% of Tulsans, $250 million is in loans that when repaid will go to "future Vision 2025 projects"--- hmmmm.... [/b] No, they didn't try. They tried to bait and switch. Face it, Tulsa's biggest positive was their history/fanbase. They could have made a rally bold statement by selling refundable deposits. They didn't. Next. [/B] Okay... newsflash... OKC has no deposits taken... you got 2 months... get on it or just shut up. Because it doesn't make much sense to "sell" season tickets to people without knowing the cost of season tickets or if there is even going to be a team based on the economic conditions (ownership & funding) of the I/O trying to bring a team. How many ST's do you think people are actually going to pay for if they "buy" a seat for $150/year and it ends up that the cost of it is $300/year. Very few. Stop arguing on the head of a pin... the prices of season tickets were posted on the City of Tulsa website and on the Oklahoma Soccer Assoc. website. Once again, they did what MLS officials requested. Nothing more. Nothing less. Idiot. So, you Mom named you mouser? Or was that your Uncle? More quasimodo b.s. Now, if and when you're ready for a really discussion, please come back with something other than the afterbirth that you posted up the first time and please don't run to the moderators like a bunch of little cowards when I peel your scalp off and hang it in my well appointed living room. Oh and that whole "fire" thing. I meant it. Even more b.s. You know, if we could stay on topic, maybe I could just say that the only consistently accurate pictures of the expansion situation over the past year has come from Soccer America's MLS Confidential. All else has been heresay and general bull. Also, I'd rather wait to have a team in Tulsa or Bricktown in 2007 (or later) than see MLS take the bait of a SSS over EVERYTHING ELSE. That said, good luck... Brad Lund still has his work cut out for him.
Jane you ignorant slut... 2... Electric Boogaloo Originally posted by Wallydrag What!? What school of journalism and mass communication did you go to? Of course writers have to write was is "confirmed and on the record" or else their papers would get sued for libel. I think you're thinking of tabloids like The Sun or Weekly World News. Even papers of lesser repute such as The Daily Oklahoman does still have those kinds of standards known as journalistic integrity (though sometimes you have to look hard). Newspapers and the news media are in the business of fact. And it's a fact that the Daily Joke-lahoman takes pride in telling both sides of the story: the conservative side and the critique of the perceived liberal side. Which is why Gaylord has to have some $$$ in this thing, whether it's a grant to expand Wantland or an ownership interest. Otherwise, I'd expect to see MLS's single entity reported on as pinko-commie socialism.
Re: Re: Jane you ignorant slut... 2... Electric Boogaloo ... and yet in death alive. I thought only the good die young so I figured Eddie would live forever.