Up From Mediocrity: Ajax 2023-24

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by Orange14, May 28, 2023.

  1. aveslacker

    aveslacker Member+

    Ajax
    United States
    Apr 2, 2006
    Old Madras
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't get to watch many games these days, but whenever I do, this is the impression I'm left with.
     
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  2. Brilliant Oranje

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Mar 4, 2023
    Amsterdam and Marbella
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    #1152 Brilliant Oranje, Feb 19, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2024
    Ajax just need a total rebuild.
    It will happen in a few years, but for now we're left with these scrubs.
     
  3. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Yes, and they also should have kept Wijndal who is just as good as Sosa. One position player really does not make much of a difference with this Ajax team. I will again point to the number of first team players that they have lost over the last three years. It's doubtful that any of the top Dutch teams could have survived the loss of players. Here are the ones Ajax lost since ten Hag's departure:
    Onana, Blind, Martinez, Mazraoui, Tagliafico, J. Timber, Alvarez, Gravenberch, Antony, Tadic, Neres, Haller, Kudus

    Yes, the front office screwed up by not addressing Overmars departure promptly by brining in a new TD. Here are just some of the players that Overmars brought into the club when he was in charge starting in 2013: L. Duarte, Sinkgraven, Zimling, Zivovic, Gudelj, Casseria, Orjuela, Magallan, Bande, Pirie, Labyad, Klaiber, Marin,
     
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  4. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    the reasn he doesn't play at a higher level is that he just isn't that good.

    Brobbey does well against any defender he has played against and he is absorbing a lot of punishment. Yes, he has a temper but if your ankles have been hacked along with elbows in the back all game long, you would also. I don't know of a striker in football that doesn't complain to the CR about being chopped at.
     
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  5. Brilliant Oranje

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Mar 4, 2023
    Amsterdam and Marbella
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Brobbey already has 1 more goal than last year, and there's still 13 games left.

    Last year: 13 goals in 32 games.
    This year: 14 goals in 21 games
     
  6. BPBlueSox

    BPBlueSox Member

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Aug 21, 2003
    Georgia
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    So it’s probably a coincidence - but I feel like the side has played noticeable worse the last couple of weeks coinciding with Schippie saying he’d be open to staying on after the end of this season in the coaching role as opposed to going upstairs. I wonder if that little extra bit of “comfort” has lost a little bit of that initial fire/emotion - Ajax has seemed much more flat the last couple of weeks. As I said, maybe a coincidence, but the timing is interesting.
     
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  7. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I don't think van't Schip stays on as manager, but I also have no clue who they could bring in that would be good for whipping the team into shape. What is most disturbing is how well the club played against PSV and how poor they have been in the subsequent three matches. I expect the critical decisions will be made after the new TD comes aboard next month.
     
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  8. richsavare

    richsavare Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jan 28, 2003
    New Jersey
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Wish it wasn’t true, but it’s really hard to watch and accept.
     
  9. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    When you look at the young guys in there, it's no brainer that they shud continue to develop the young players and put an hold to their big expectations and big clubs status for time being . Probably it's best there is a break in the cycle and they build on their home grown players which obviously requires for more games and time for the youngsters to mature. Martha, forbs, rensch, hato,Hlynsson, gorter, banel, Rijkhoff,fitz kim,vos, unuvar and others who are out on loan.

    The option would be to go into a loss and do another overhaul and continue to strive for success in Europe.
     
  10. I don't think what you suggest is an option.
    Given the probability of us keeping the UEFA 6th spot at least the next two seasons and the changes in the CL set up, the clubs taking Eredivisie spot 1, 2 and 3 are going to get a huge financial boost (supposing nr 3 qualifies).
    If Ajax takes the longer developing route, they will be fighting for spot 3 with hands tied. Plus Ajax will be less interesting without CL competition for candidate players.
    I think Ajax needs to spend money on very good players in the axis of the team. So a top CD to make life for Hato easier, a creative midfielder and a good pair of wing backs.
    Dunno about Ajax paycheck total, but I guess it's far more than for instance of Feyenoord. You can do that with one bridge year, but not for longer than 2 seasons. It then impacts your maneuverability in the transfer market. It's not for nothing the winter window was, apart from Henderson, not being utilized to strengthen the team.
     
  11. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Wage line for 2023 is €99.1M. I don't know what the numbers are for Feyenoord or PSV.

    Easier said than done! They spent a lot of money on a Croatian CB who is a starter for their NT. Turns out he isn't that good. There were a bunch of other purchases last summer of players who had reputations either at full starters or youth players. Most of them are not very good other than Ramaj who is a better GK than anyone else Ajax had at the time. I could go down the list of failed players that Overmars brought in including some ten Hag wanted who were worthless (Labyad & Klaiber).

    It is very hard to find established players who can contribute as those are snapped up by bigger and better clubs or bad clubs in England who have lots of TV money to spend. When a club such as Ajax loses an entire starting 11 plus a couple of subs in about two years, it puts a lot of pressure on the team. You can hope your youth system produces good players and Ajax have a good track record there but pushing a 19 or 20 year old into first team high pressure football is not a recipe for success. You can also hope that you find a pearl that has been overlooked or misused, Tadic being the best example. Even bringing in Ziyech who everyone knew was a good player didn't pay off immediately..

    Ajax was pretty much the major contributor to the current UEFA standing and maybe they also end up being the team most responsible for losing the third CL sport. Such is life and the sun will still come up in the East and set in the West. The Dutch league is handicapped by the lack of significant television money or a big spending owner. Look at the rich people snapping up run of the mill EPL teams. That's not going to happen here nor will it even happen in Germany because of their ownership regulations. There are about 10 teams in Europe that will lalways be successful but look at what is happening at Bayern this season. Huge club playing just awful football.
     
  12. aveslacker

    aveslacker Member+

    Ajax
    United States
    Apr 2, 2006
    Old Madras
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    These debates have been a feature of Ajax fandom for a while. We had a great run in the early/mid 00's only to turn to coaches like ten Cate, Van Basten, and Koster. We coughed up players like Sneijder, Zlatan, VdV, etc, only to replace them with the likes of Kuffour, Juergen Collin, Tom Soetaers, etc. Then we got good again. It's part of the cycle. The good news is that the Eredivise doesn't have as much depth as the Premier League where a team like Man U or Chelsea can fall off the top and take forever to get back. Ajax will stumble but eventually will get back to the top.
     
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  13. Brilliant Oranje

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Mar 4, 2023
    Amsterdam and Marbella
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  14. pfloyd

    pfloyd Member

    Mar 18, 2012
    Varna, Bulgaria
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Caveat: I read this through Google translate so I might have missed some important nuances. Very strange statement by vt'S. Sounds like Martha is the worst player on the team, which is absolutely not true. Is there some personal reasons for him to be so harsh on the kid? Vt'S seems nervous after the recent poor run of the team so it looks like Martha is the scapegoat which, if the case, is not fair.
     
  15. Well, actually he was criticized for some time now and the Ajax paper de Telegraaf was critical about him being in the first team in the first place.
    They are the opinion he's not good enough for young Ajax, let alone for the first team.
     
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  16. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Martha was not a good enough winger to progress through to the first team. He was switched to LB just this season and with injuries to others, forced to play first team football. He had one or two decent games early on, particularly playing well with Bergwijn but I guess has reverted to the mean as just a touch below average. As with the other LBs, he is very poor defensively. They should have stuck with Wijndal who is less bad than the others on the roster. Hato really does not like playing LB so Sosa is the only left footed alternative.
     
  17. richsavare

    richsavare Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jan 28, 2003
    New Jersey
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I actually forgot about Sami Kuffour.
    He played 2 times for Ajax.
    Pretty good player at Bayern Munich to be fair.
     
  18. richsavare

    richsavare Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jan 28, 2003
    New Jersey
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Not fair at all.
     
  19. richsavare

    richsavare Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jan 28, 2003
    New Jersey
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Started well and nice combination play with Bergwijn looked promising but defensively he was overmatched physically and tactically often.
    Ajax defensively so weak especially against counters and Martha was badly exposed which is not entirely his fault.
     
  20. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    PSV and feyenoord have good squads and have shown they can compete at CL LEVEL. I also see twente brewing into a good team and just needs few experienced who could reinforce them to compete better in Europa if they can secure that thrid spot and qualify directly. as such I think there shudnt be any issue in regards to coefficient points.

    it may also come down to where Ajax finishes come the end of the season.if they finish outside of top three , might as well just go through conference league and build the team. two season at tops .
     
  21. wynaldaisagod

    wynaldaisagod Member+

    Ajax
    United States
    Aug 9, 2019
    Martha is so physically weak (another academy guy like this) that he cannot hack it at defender even against bad ED clubs. I actually loved like 'Ajax is not a charity' comment. Speaking of...

    van den Boomen replaces Taylor in the MF. Interested to see two adults starting in the midfield for once.
     
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  22. wynaldaisagod

    wynaldaisagod Member+

    Ajax
    United States
    Aug 9, 2019
    Correction: one adult with Tahirovic in for Henderson. Oof.
     
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  23. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Brobbey subbed off just before halftime. Akpom on. Brobbey had a nice lay off to Berghuis for the Ajax goal.
     
  24. richsavare

    richsavare Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jan 28, 2003
    New Jersey
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Hopefully not serious but Brobbey likely not fully fit from the ridiculous amount of fouling he receives each match.
    Sad state of affairs tonight so far.
    Ajax playing negatively on plastic pitch in the freezing cold, but our weak defensive play of backing off too much, not getting stuck in, or proper tackling, with slow positional play which has been lucky not to get punished only have Ramaj to thank for his excellent play so far.
    I guess Van’t Schip sees these tactics as necessary, but it’s not pretty.
     
  25. richsavare

    richsavare Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jan 28, 2003
    New Jersey
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Sutalo please get rid of him
     
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