Unsportmanlike???

Discussion in 'Referee' started by house18, Sep 23, 2003.

  1. house18

    house18 Member

    Jun 23, 2003
    St. Louis, MO
    The high school team that I coach ran a freekick play that we have been working on and scored but the ref called it back and gave a free kick to the other team. This is what we did:

    We have three kids in position to take the kick, one right, one middle, one left. The right and left kids approach the ball at the same time as if they are going to take the kick, stop short and start to argue as the third player comes in and takes the kick. The ref said it was unsportsmanlike because it was played with "intent to decieve." I don't see this as being any more decieving then having multiple runners over the ball. The third player goes as they stop, so it's not like they argue for 10 or 20 seconds. I am just curious what you refs think about this. This ref also called a foul and signaled direct and then when my player scored on it he said it was indirect and that we should have known. He red-carded one of my players for late shoulder to shoulder contact. Horrible ref, even his AR was puzzled by his decisions. Anyway what do you think of the free kick?
     
  2. nsa

    nsa Member+

    New England Revolution; Boston Breakers
    United States
    Feb 22, 1999
    Notboston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think that it is unlikely that you will find a referee who will comment on a play that s/he has not seen.
     
  3. BentwoodBlue

    BentwoodBlue New Member

    Sep 20, 2003
    Dela-where?
    Club:
    Ipswich Town FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Hmm tricky... But I will give you my take on the free. Just leave out the arguing. Have them stop and confer while the third takes it. See when players argue, as the center referee it is my job to make sure everyone keeps a level head. Even if the arguing is amongst teammates. Unsporting is a real grey area, and I cannot really say for sure without having watched\reffed the match myself. But, with just the facts given yes it is very deceptive. And while some deception is good for the game you need to do it in such a way that is in the "Spirit of the Game" and frankly arguing has no place in the game.
    Just my input. Feel free to take what you like from it.
     
  4. Stan

    Stan New Member

    Aug 23, 2002
    PA
    verbal deception

    I would agree with Bentwood. Silent deception and feinting are allowed, but verbal deception of any kind is considered unsportsmanlike conduct.
     
  5. rcleopard

    rcleopard New Member

    Aug 26, 2003
    IMHO,

    Unsporting.

    If I see two players on the same team arguing, I am going to go over and see what is going on. If it happens that the coach has instructed them to do this.. has instructed them to basically fake a disagreement over a restart.. with the intention of distracting the other team, then I think that gives too much of an unfair advantage. Yes, a team should have an advantage. But that advantage should extend only so far as having tthe right to kick and ten yards.

    In essence.. what you're telling us, is that you are instructing your players to fake a dead ball argument. That's very unsporting behavior, IMHO.

    Jarrod
     
  6. Bob G

    Bob G New Member

    Jan 11, 2000
    Colorado Springs
    This is a legal play that's been used in Europe for at least 20 years (only occasionally, though - if the other team knows you use this tactic, you look pretty lame). It's no more unsporting than the trick corner kick where the defense is not supposed to realize the ball's been put into play.

    The only thing that should get you into trouble is if the theatrics are so prolonged the referee decides your team is delaying the restart. Or if the theatrics are so energetic the referee thinks the players are actually about to break into a fight. And, as always, one problem with great deception is that fooling the referee along with the defense is always a possibility and is just the cost of business of using such tactics.
     
  7. new old man

    new old man New Member

    Jun 7, 2003
    SW US
    theater is my life

    I wonder why you would not consider having the first two players run into each other, and then one draw a fake sword, and skewer the second, as...
    or pull a pistol, firing blanks, while the third player...
    I'm sorry, I got confused. I had thought we were discussing soccer. My mistake. Carry on. Sounds like great fun.
     
  8. Crowdie

    Crowdie New Member

    Jan 23, 2003
    Auckland, New Zealand
    I thought we have agreed that the corner kick trick was not legal.

    The referee can penalise the attacking team for:

    i) Delaying the restart of play
    ii) Use of abusive language or gesture
    iii) Unsporting behaviour

    Really it is a silly tactic. The attacking team would be better to try to improve this skills rather than use this tactic.

    Crowdie.
     
  9. house18

    house18 Member

    Jun 23, 2003
    St. Louis, MO
    Well first of all I actually got this from, I believe, the Argentine national team. We also run thier WC '98 free kick they scored on England with. The "arguement" barely starts before the third player actually takes the kick. Our guys barely spoke two words before the kick. They were speaking Spanish and were told not to curse. And for the fool who wrote above, my team is a very skilled team, it's called a free kick play. I suppose all of those national teams and teams like Man United, Arsenal, Real Madrid, etc. need to work on skill since they run free kick plays. We actually have three players who have scored on free kicks this season and who are excellent at it.
     
  10. rcleopard

    rcleopard New Member

    Aug 26, 2003
    Well then, be careful.

    If two players speaking spanish appear to be in an argument to me, I will yellow them both for unsportsmanlike, as I have the ability to do so. This "trick" , like many other tricks pulled at the International and professional level, brings disrepute into the game. Jim Allen and crew of AtR have made it pretty clear that the US stance on this is one of antagonism. (I don't know what the Canadian or other countries feel about this.) So.. in the US, this is likely to get you in trouble. If it does, understand that the rules ARE on the referees side on this one.

    IAFB Decision one in the misconducts section says if this action is against a teammate, coach, or referee, they are subject to the penalties thereof.

    In this case, let's just say that I would be "fooled" very easily.

    *:)

    Jarrod
     
  11. Bob G

    Bob G New Member

    Jan 11, 2000
    Colorado Springs
    If we have, then that's a recent change that I've haven't heard.

    The last update I'd heard on the USSF's stand on the issue (via Jim Allen) came out in 2001 after the men's national team tried the trick corner kick in the 2000 Olympics (unsuccessfully, by the way - the referee was fooled, resulting in the second US player being called for a double touch). Their trick sparked a wave of trick corner kicks in high school and youth play and a huge variety of responses from referees ranging from cautions to calling the second player for two touches to allowing the play.

    The USSF decided they needed to say something about this play and similar plays and their guidance was that the kicking team should be allowed a great deal of latitude in restarts and that very little sympathy should be shown for the defenders who've presumably just unfairly stopped play by commiting a foul. About the only exception is specifically those instances where it is obviously difficult to tell whether the player is positioning the ball for the restart or putting the ball into play - and the only consideration shown is whether to caution or not; not whether or not to allow the kicking team a fair rekick.

    While its certainly possible (and sometimes understandable) to have the referee be fooled by a 'trick' restart, the referee should make every attempt to read the restart correctly - in other words, having a policy of being easily fooled is not exactly ethical.

    While I wasn't exactly a great fan of the USSF's position on trick corner kicks (the defenders committed no foul - the ball just went out of play), they are still (and always have been?) legal as far as I know.
     
  12. Crowdie

    Crowdie New Member

    Jan 23, 2003
    Auckland, New Zealand
    I brought this example up with some senior NZ referees and they agreed that they wouldn't allow it although at their level you wouldn't see it that often.

    That is not to say that it is legal or not as each referee will have different things that they class as unsporting behaviour.

    What I find really interesting about this is that referees in different countries are reacting differently to the same situation. In the 2002 WC there was a lot of criticism of the CRs and ARs from supporters around the world. Maybe we now know why.

    Crowdie.
     
  13. Bob G

    Bob G New Member

    Jan 11, 2000
    Colorado Springs
    Prior to USSF's position, I think there were a few senior US ref's that would not have allowed this, either. Paul Tamberino had even suggested (in a Fair Play article) that allowing the trick corner kick would make all subsequent free kick restarts virtually unmanageable (is he putting the ball in play or is he just repositioning?).

    Obviously, all parties involved in US soccer have a say in setting USSF policy, not just referees. There probably aren't very many referees who go into a game hoping for the opportunity to manage more creative trick restarts than have ever before been attempted in one game.

    None the less, USSF had a point. A lot of deceptive free kicks (fake arguments included) have been tried and accepted in international soccer and the trick corner kick isn't that far beyond the norm.
     
  14. Crowdie

    Crowdie New Member

    Jan 23, 2003
    Auckland, New Zealand
    I wouild have to agree with Mr Tamberino on this one.

    There is a difference between having decoy attempts and runners and the corner kick example. The corner kick example tries to deceive the opposition out of their right to challenge for the ball. That, I believe, is what a number of referees have an issue with.

    Crowdie.
     

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