92 players registered for the NWSL Draft by my count......should be double that when all is said and done if going by past precedent.— Chris Henderson (@chris_awk) December 22, 2022
Indeed...Just what I was going to say, Val. And also that it is good news for the college game the less players seek to move out to play with the pros. The names on this list from the top soccer schools are mostly players who's eligibility has truly run out (5 years) with some exceptions of course (such as Duke's sophomore Michelle Cooper who has publicly announced that she intends to play in the NWSL next year. It might be interesting to note that neither of the NCAA finalist teams (UNC and UCLA) listed any players. I don't know about UCLA, but all of UNC's seniors (with one exception - Rachel Jones, who will be in her third year as a law school student next year) have a potential year of COVID eligibility. That would be Julia Dorsey. Emily Moxley, Isabel Cox, Aleigh Gambone, Libby Moore, Tori Hanson, and Maycee Bell. We have heard that Emily and Maycee have indicated that she would like to come back, and there might be a few others in this group.
Very thoughtful points. Anyone who retains the expectation that UNC will win the NCAA title 21 out of 31 years (or whatever it was at one point) is going to be disappointed. I like the take that UNC has not underachieved. They still do well in recruiting , but I know Anson has commented many times how many recruits they lose to west coast teams, particularly Stanford. I am a UNC grad, but honestly, it's kind of amazing to me that UNC is even in the game recruiting vs a school like Stanford. Don't get me wrong, I love the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill as a school and for the sports, but have you ever been to Palo Alto? Beautiful place, campus, amazing weather. And the academics are off the scale. Similar things could be said about a few other schools, including UCLA. My understanding is that UNC has fallen off a decent amount in recruiting. Someone will give us the numbers, but I'd say its been more like the lower end of the top 5 or even top 10 some years. I might be wrong. 5 college cups including 3 finals in 10 years is not underachieving ....unless again you compare it to a time when UNC was likely always the #1 recruiting class and had magic in the air guiding the ball into the goal every November/ December! I wonder how rankings in college sports line up with academic rankings. My sense is that some sports correlate in that way more than others, making the school quality a big draw. Before anyone jumps on me for degrading UNC , I have 2 graduate degrees from there and the rest of my education at NC State, so I could not be more grateful for the education I received in the public system in NC. It certainly has not limited me going to these schools. Just trying to be real about the factors recruits likely consider.
Personally, I'd be fine if more players went to the pros early. That would be a sign of health of women's pro soccer. More opportunities for players is good by me. As much as I love watching college sports, the whole system is pretty strange and without corollary in other counties. Glad to see NIL and more flexibility for students transferring if they wish. I'd also like to see more scholarships and more protection of scholarships for players. How about the player who chooses Stanford, does not perform athletically enough to keep the scholarship and then has to figure how to come up with 70K+ per year. Are players protected in any way? My take is no, but I'd love to be wrong.
Power 5 schools guarantee scholarships for 4 years as long as the player doesn't quit the team. Your Stanford player example would not be put in that position. Also, if a coach pulls or decreases a players scholarship for performance reasons they would have the right to appeal it. They can appeal any deduction, but they would win an appeal for athletic performance reasons. The appeal goes to a campus committee outside athletics. Players have rights, most just do not exercise their appeals and that is what the coach hopes for.
Since some of you are discussing the present as related to the past, here are a couple of resources that show how consistent UNC still remains at least during the regular season. Its rank is statistically the most consistent of the D1 schools, since 2007.
You clearly spent most of your time at the ugly duckling campus of NC State if that is the conclusion you came too about the research triangle. regardless of your subjective opinions, objectively the research triangle is one of the most revered and up and coming locations in the entire country. Heck, personally if you look at demographic trends, population shifts, quality of life, the job market, cost of living, weather etc. I could easily argue the research triangle is the most up and coming part of the country. with regards to recruiting, UNC consistently recruits elite classes in almost all of its sports (even sports who don’t perform particularly well). It is easy to recruit at UNC. Huge athletic brand and incredible athletics culture, Amazing school spirit, great academics, fun school to attend, great facilities. Also with regards to academics, the track and field coach who left Stanford for UNC openly admitted he would rather his kids attend a school like UNC than Stanford because of the unhealthy pressure that his student athletes felt at a school like Stanford. (Not saying this is true or I agree with him, just simply stating what he said). also, take everything anson says with a grain of salt. When he was saying we were losing recruits to schools like Stanford etc. that was when he wanted more funding for the coaching staff and an upgraded facility. Now that he has that, we aren’t losing many recruits anywhere. Obviously not saying we will get every recruit we want, but anson was strategic with what he said so he could get more funding from the athletic director.
I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on what it means if more players stay for a fifth year or not. I'm just surprised that it isn't happening more often now that we have more NWSL teams with more open spots each. I'm also wondering what part the strength of the NWSL draft class this year is playing. It's not supposed to be very good, but next year is supposed to be one of the strongest ever. Wouldn't a player who isn't sure of their professional fortunes want to join a draft with less guaranteed picks? Or maybe it's the reverse and they can join a draft that they will more likely not be picked for and then have an opportunity to choose where they wind up?
I don't think the 'opportunity to choose where they wind up' by not getting drafting is anyone's thinking. Have you looked at how few players that are even drafted that make an NWSL roster, let alone have an impact in the league? Many of those drafted do not even make the team. San Diego Wave just released their 1st round pick from the 2022 draft this off season. 2024 will have the two expansion teams so that will open up more opportunity. I think this 2023 draft class will expand quite a bit as there are several days to go. Someone as talented as Michelle Cooper is wise to hold her cards until close to the draft to create financial leverage between different leagues. https://www.soccerwire.com/news/full-results-from-the-2022-nwsl-draft/
I think this perfectly shows the point I was going to make. If you look at the 13 seasons since 2009, and break it up in two roughly equal pieces (pre-Damon 2010-2015) and the (With Damon 2016-2022) you will see that: 2010-2015 UNC (6 seasons) - 0 ACC regular season Champs - 0 ACC tournament championships - 0 ACC championship game appearances - 1 College cup - 1 National Championship Game appearance - 1 National Championship 2016-2022 UNC (7 seasons) - 4 ACC regular season championships - 2 ACC tournament championships - 6 ACC championship game appearances - 5 College Cups - 3 National Championship Game appearances - 0 National championships If this was 2015, I would agree with the statement that UNC is falling. Excluding the National championship in 2012, it was clear that from 2010-2015 UNC was surpassed by many programs. However, because it is 2022, if you look at the last 7 years, since the hiring of Damon in 2016, the program is clearly going in the right direction. Obviously facilities improved drastically in 2019 and recruiting has followed a similar trajectory in the last 4-5 years. it’s not fair to compare any team to UNC pre 2010, but since 2010, I would argue that the trajectory of the program is going up since Damon’s hire (not saying it is all him, but 2016 is when UNC started to turn it around.)
https://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2020/04/chris-miltenberg-unc-track-and-field-feature Here is the article about why the Stanford track coach left for UNC.
Wow..insult people and schools for no reason much? 5 years in Raleigh. 28 years in chapel hill. Love it here. Just saying some schools and location are hard to compete against. Stanford wins that athletic cup nearly every year. Can you chill a bit though either way? Geez
It’s a very special type of narcissist who tries to pull the trick of representing the opinions of others as subjective and their own view as objective… all about things that are inherently subjective. Being pompous using a logical fallacy is amusing. Thanks for the laugh. Why all the hostility because I raised some issues that come up in recruiting that are not fully in UNC’s favor? I didn’t say UNC was terrible. I was comparing them to literally the #1 rated athletic program in the country (according to the Capital One Cup or whatever it is called these days)
yea I don't have much insight in this manner and it doesn't surprise me to have a completely wrong thought process. XD ... I don't think Cooper is a great example tho. Cooper is a highly talented player who is probably going in the first round if she does go to the draft. I'm mostly thinking about players who would get drafted late or only if they a niche metric. I'm kind of thinking / hoping someone in the league recognizes the incredible things Libby Moore does for this team and is willing to draft her ... but it also wouldn't surprise me if she falls through completely. It's starting to get to a point where there's more cons than pros for being drafted into the NWSL. Players who apply but then go undrafted seem to have far more rights to pick and choose what they do.
Subjective opinions that you brought up were “Beautiful place, campus”. You implied UNC can’t compete with UCLA or Stanford because of those things which are very much subjective. Objectively, I agree Stanford is better academically although their are drawbacks to that with regards to recruiting. Both from the academic rigor that could turn off recruits and that not all recruits are eligible academically to go to Stanford. UCLA isn’t significantly better academically than UNC to where it would make much of a difference. I simply brought up that UNC and the research triangle were objectively fantastic locations based on objective data such as “Demographic trends, job market, population growth, cost of living etc.” Those things aren’t subjective. I was simply responding to the fact that you act dumbfounded as to how UNC can recruit at such a high level. You state that UNC isn’t terrible, which implies that you think they aren’t fantastic either. You claim that you raised issues with regards to UNC and recruiting… there really is no major issues when it comes to recruiting at UNC for soccer. I’m not trying to claim that UNC is the best in every category, because they obviously are not, but few schools are set up to perform as well recruiting wise as UNC especially in womens soccer. As is Stanford and UCLA… which is why they do consistently bring in elite classes too. But in my opinion, they don’t have a drastic advantage in regards to recruiting over UNC in womens soccer. ps. In my subjective opinion, NC State easily has the ugliest campus in the triangle
I'm trying to decide if this back and forth between UNC fans is more or less alarming than the back and forth between UNC fans about needing to move on from the Championship game.
Meanness is sort of amusing, but ignorant meanness is perplexing. Like, doesn’t he get that saying demographic trends determine the value of a place is a subjective judgment? And the need to degrade NC State. What’s up here? I freaking love UNC. I am a huge UNC women’s soccer fan. I’ve probably been to 300 games at least. I am not here to put down UNC. I was just discussing some of the issues around recruiting.
Mean Stone… welcome to Blocksvillle! Take it easy, buddy. get some help. Seriously , get some help. I mean that as a king suggestion, not an insult.
Didn’t NC State just beat Drake Maye? I love both schools and teams, but the point here makes no sense.
Just about everyone knows Jill Ellis never won a National Championship at UCLA, but in her final 10 seasons the Bruins went to the College Cup six times. And she was largely considered on this board to be the most underachieving coach of all time! Would board OGs like cpthomas and Cliveworshipper agree?
You may be over reacting to Keane Stone. Don’t think he was really criticizing you and was just pointing out positives of the Triangle area. And there seemed to be a touch of good-natured humor to the digs about State, like what Drake Maye said before the State game.
The NWSL pays far more for the role player though than any other league, so they are best off in the NWSL from a financial perspective. Also, they can get drafted by the NWSL but choose not to sign (and go to any other league). Mia Fishel did this despite being a first round draft choice. Not getting drafted by the NWSL means your chances of making a roster are quite slim. Getting drafted gets you into training camp with a legit shot at making the team. Cooper has a chance to go #1 overall.