Ukraine vs Russia III

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by argentine soccer fan, May 16, 2023.

  1. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    one thing is clear - this is a temporary reprieve and the breathing space gained needs to be maxed out.

    If Trump wins in November, there will be no more aid.
     
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  2. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    It's worth noting that people in this thread followed this saga in micro-detail. There is endless reporting on the bi-partisan Border+Aid bill which Republican leadership requested and then negotiated.

    Further, there is extensive reporting on how Lankford himself was left high and dry and threatened with censure for even negotiating the bill, when Trump called McConnell and pulled the plug. The idea it was never going to pass is of course laughable unless you are so naive to believe Lankford negotiated this all on his own without the support of McConnell's block

    As had to be pointed out to the other MAGAe here, Trump doesn't want Ukraine Aid or Border action and that is what has held things up since September i.e 7-8 months

    These Vatniks disgust me.
     
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  3. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The GOP didn't do this -- can you explain why?

    I know the answer but I'm eager to hear your alternative to reality.
     
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  4. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Mike Lee and Ted Cruz.

    lololz

    imagine believing that Lankford of all people secretly included these devious clauses and only Mike Lee and Ted Cruz saved the day.
     
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  5. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    This is how Rep. Johnson decided to embrace Ukraine Aid and defy his right flank:

    https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/21/poli...ohnson-house-speaker-israel-taiwan/index.html

    Yes, prayer.

    My first thought was, if he's such a devout Christian, why didn't he pray six months ago, and he would have saved a lot of trouble for Ukraine, Europe and the whole world.

    But whatever, what's done is done. Slava Ukraini!
     
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  6. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    The residence of the French ambassador to DC this morning[​IMG]
     
  7. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    From Anton Gerschenko, former adviser to Ukraine's Min. of Interior:
    It seems that the approval of aid for Ukraine by the US Congress came as a big surprise to Russia.
    Judging by their reaction, they had no plan B and believed there would be no help. But, it turns out that now Ukraine and the West are destroying the remnants of the high-tech part of the Russian army to bring it back to the 20th century.
    Another year of such a war and all Russia will be left with will be last century weapons and meat assaults. Aviation, especially strategic aircraft, and the navy will be largely destroyed. Meanwhile, NATO and China continue to increase their high tech weaponry stocks.
    Russia is playing tactics in Ukraine, and losing strategically. In a direct confrontation with NATO, it has less and less chances.
    Aid to Ukraine is essentially an ultimatum. It will now be about exhausting Russia.

    Yesterday's statements by Medvedev and Peskov are full of confusion and spite.
    And he's right: Russian social media and tankie Twitter are having a meltdown/toddler tantrum for the ages
     
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  8. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    LOL! My first thought was that this was about el Superclásico today. A Boca Juniors fan in DC.
     
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  9. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Were they wrong tho? Until Johnson and Trump’s flip a week or so ago, there was little to no chance of the bill(s) making it to the floor for a vote.

    I wish we could find out the real reason they flipped, but I suspect we never will..
     
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  10. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    The lesson here is, whether you are the good guy or the bad guy, never count fully on MAGA for anything. Trumpism is too erratic.
     
  11. FormerGermanGuy

    Mar 1, 2001
    Indianapolis
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Amazing that prayer always seems to lead people to do the thing they were planning on doing anyways.
     
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  12. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #7887 superdave, Apr 21, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2024
    1. There was always the discharge petition. AIUI it’s a time consuming process so you’d only pull it out for must-haves. My take was that this was a race between a discharge petition and facts on the ground in Ukraine making the aid package too late.
    2. Johnson was really the only person who flipped, or at least the only person who mattered. He controls the calendar. He changed his mind. I wouldn’t be too surprised if the cover story is legit, that he saw what the Deep State sees and realized they were right. Remember, Johnson was a complete back bencher before he became speaker. It wouldn’t surprise me a bit if he had no greater political vision than is required of a shit posting back bencher. He may be that rare pol who grows into the office.
     
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  13. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    I don’t know how much growth will occur long term, I agree that he saw the light in this instance.
     
  14. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well when a 3 year old grows into being a 4 year old, that still counts as growth. Joking/not joking
     
  15. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    Dude is short.
     
  16. goliath74

    goliath74 Member

    May 24, 2006
    Hollywood, FL, United States
    Club:
    FC Dynamo Kyiv
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    Kinda makes me think that Mike Johnson was paid off by the Russians to slow down the passage of the bill as much as possible. I do not know what they paid him but it purchased more than a month for them.
     
  17. goliath74

    goliath74 Member

    May 24, 2006
    Hollywood, FL, United States
    Club:
    FC Dynamo Kyiv
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    You think it may be possible that leader Jeffries visited Johnson and told him he would get some votes from the Democrats to keep his post from being vacated?
     
  18. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah the most complicated, baroque explanation is likely the right one. :D
     
  19. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Obrien has blogged what he knows ... FWIW

    The key figure in the switch was Speaker Johnson. Until almost a week ago he remained uncertain about what to do and was still planning on delaying a vote. If Johnson did continue to delay, getting the aid passed would have been very difficult (every day closer to the November election is a day which is more difficult for Republicans to oppose Trump). However, he decided for a range of reasons (I’m not going to guess which ones mattered more or less) to have the vote in the end. The reasons for the change were:

    1. He was spooked by the intelligence reports about what the loss of US aid was doing to Ukrainian resistance and how the Ukrainian army, outgunned and out-supplied, was in bad shape. So he personally became convinced of the need to get aid to Ukraine.

    2. The connection between Russia-China-NK-Iran was now assumed to be stronger and a threat to the USA. The growth of Chinese support (materially) for Russia, and Iranian policy made it much easier to believe that the US needed to stand up to all of them—and not separate Russia from the rest for instance.

    3. Johnson was also aware that if he did not act, a large number of pro-Ukrainian Republicans in the House who had not yet signed a discharge petition would go ahead and do so. This would have lead to him losing control of the floor.

    4. Politically, Johnson was aware that abandoning Ukraine was politically damaging to the Republicans winning election in 2024—it was an attempt to reach out to the Haley wing of the Republican Party (this also is a huge motivator for Trump).
    So Johnson decided that he would allow a vote, and he went to visit Trump to get the latter on board. That worked—within certain confines. Trump agreed not to oppose Johnson—though he was not happy about it. Trump still very much wants to cut a deal that helps Putin and forces Ukraine to hand over lots of territory. However, at the present Trump was willing to pivot politically to try and attract Haley Republicans, who he understands will be crucial of he is going to win the election.
     
  20. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    It doesn't look like Trump flipped on it - he just agreed not to attack/oppose Johnson. Trump of course knows that more house chaos is bad for him. I also wonder if the Iran escalation plays a role here.
     
  21. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At it's best, prayer can be a form of meditation, or focused contemplation.

    At it's worst, it's a sanctimonious cover for bad intentions.
     
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  22. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #7897 Yoshou, Apr 22, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2024
    That’s a flip tho. Trump was behind the remove Johnson as Speaker if he puts forward the foreign aid bills..
     
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  23. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A load of crap, imho. All of this has been “common knowledge” since at least the start of the year. As soon as the US’s support dried up, Ukraine’s artillery shortage started and that started their loss of Avdiivka. How to address the troop shortage was one of the reasons why Zaluzhnyi was removed as commander in chief. Etc. Etc.
     
  24. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Looks like the real reason was #5:

     
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  25. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Finally Christianity pays off.:thumbsup:
     
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