UK General Election 2017

Discussion in 'Elections' started by The Biscuitman, Dec 11, 2014.

  1. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Would it be right to say foreign policy(except for the EU part) does not play a major role in this election? Cause obviously it is Hollande and Merkel flying to Putin for negotiations while Dave... what is he doing actually these days?
     
  2. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Putin thinks he can divide and conquer by separating Germany and France from the USA. I assume he has no hope on doing the same with England.
     
    White/Blue_since1860 repped this.
  3. The Biscuitman

    The Biscuitman Member+

    Jul 4, 2007
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Offering jobs to his mates with HSBC accounts in Switzerland
     
    White/Blue_since1860 repped this.
  4. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 30, 2002
    Cameron said he would only take part in the negotiations if the Greens and SNP were also invited.
     
  5. The Biscuitman

    The Biscuitman Member+

    Jul 4, 2007
    Club:
    Reading FC
  6. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
  7. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 30, 2002
  8. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Given how bad Labour was while governing and the weakness of your leader is why you guys aren't doing better
     
  9. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 30, 2002
    Well, I've read it several times and still can't understand why you quoted my previous post to write this.
     
  10. The Biscuitman

    The Biscuitman Member+

    Jul 4, 2007
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Footage of Gideon appears from the daily politics show where he advises viewers on how to dodge inheritance tax

    :ROFLMAO:
     
  11. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
  12. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    If labour regains power britian will once again experience a increase in taxes, deficits, increase of the debt, and mass immigration.
     
  13. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
  14. The Biscuitman

    The Biscuitman Member+

    Jul 4, 2007
    Club:
    Reading FC
    First telly debate last night.

    Paxman ripped DC & EM apart. Neither came out looking great but EM was starting from such a low position that he probably came out best from that. He seemed slightly less odd basically, which was the best he could hope for.
     
  15. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Well... Ive seen parts of yesterdays debate and it seemed to me Dave would have prefered to be anywhere but this debate. British politics would be so much more fun with some sort PR.
     
  16. Colm

    Colm Member

    Aug 17, 2004
    UK
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Polls of who did best in the 7 way tv debate

    ICM Miliband wins
    Miliband 25% (labour)
    Cameron 24% (conservative)
    Farage 19% (UKIP)
    Sturgeon 17% (SNP)
    Clegg 9% (lib dems)
    Bennett 3% (greens)
    Wood 2% (plaid cymru)

    ComRes tie between Cameron/Miliband/Farage
    Cameron 21% (conservative)
    Miliband 21% (labour)
    Farage 21% (ukip)
    Sturgeon 20% (snp)
    Clegg 9% (lib dems)
    Bennett 5% (greens)
    Wood 2% (plaid cymru)

    YouGov Sturgeon wins
    Sturgeon 28% (snp)
    Farage 20% (ukip)
    Cameron 18% (conservative)
    Miliband 15% (labour)
    Clegg 10% (lib dems)
    Bennett 5% (greens)
    Wood: 4% (plaid cymru)

    Survation tie between Cameron/Miliband
    Cameron - 25% (conservative)
    Miliband - 25% (labour)
    Farage - 24% (ukip)
    Sturgeon - 15% (snp)
    Clegg - 6% (lib dems)
    Bennett - 3% (greens)
    Wood - 2% (plaid cymru)

    No clear winner. Will have to wait in 2 weeks time for the next debate.
     
  17. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
  18. The Biscuitman

    The Biscuitman Member+

    Jul 4, 2007
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Gove on QT last week refused to answer to question of whether the Tories would consider a coalition with UKIP.

    that terrifies me.
     
  19. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It shouldn't. The conservatives want to hold onto power, and if UKIP gives them 5-6 seats with which to obtain that power, they'll do it. UKIP is closer to them than the Lib Dems so they would much prefer it. If it scares you so much, consider who Bibi Netanyahu will have to join in coalition with. Or who the centrist parties have to align with in the Polish Sejm ::shudder::
     
  20. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    That's not how coalition politics work. A coalition with UKip will get them maybe another term but a, that would be a very unstable government due to Ukip being unreliable and b, it will be the end to any Tory led government in the 10-20 years after that. That's why Dave will not go into a coalition just for the sake of staying in power.
     
  21. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you want to argue that the UK 2015 election is a specific case with unique unobservables that make it much less likely for a Tory-UKIP coalition to form, fine. But in the broader sense, the logic for a Conservative-UKIP coalition is there. Let's say this is the outcome of the election (purely hypothetical):

    Con: 285
    Lab: 242
    SNP - 41
    Lib Dems - 41
    UKIP - 41

    In this scenario, the Tories can form a coalition with any single other party and win. If aligned on the ideological spectrum, the five parties are arranged thusly:

    |------SNP----Lab------LibDem---------Con-----UKIP---|

    Just by counting the dashes between the parties, it's obvious that the Conservatives go with UKIP. Less ideological space means that the Tories give up less ground on some of their agenda items, and can hand out "worse" portfolios to the junior party in Cabinet.

    Now let's assume this (again, purely hypothetical) outcome:

    Con: 321
    Lab: 286
    SNP - 11
    Lib Dems - 25
    UKIP - 7

    |------SNP----Lab------LibDem---------Con-----UKIP---|

    UKIP is much smaller than LibDem, but again the Conseratives will go with UKIP. Research has found that coalitions with just threadbare majorities are more cohesive and stable than larger coalitions. This is in large part because each defection is more costly in smaller majorities, so the agenda-setters don't allow anything to come to the floor that would threaten the majority. It's also because in larger coalitions there is more ideological heterogeneity. So the Tories would be better off forming a coalition with UKIP in just about any circumstance where it would give them a majority.

    If UKIP doesn't get enough seats to matter, then Dave is better off looking back to the Lib Dems or even a grand coalition. That's the caveat.
     
  22. The Biscuitman

    The Biscuitman Member+

    Jul 4, 2007
    Club:
    Reading FC
    UKIP will not get much at all come next month.

    most estimates are 2-5 seats
     
  23. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Well this is all nice on a theoretical basis. Coalition politics dont follow just where there might be theoreatical majorities. That's maybe how your congress is working where majorities have to be found on a whim and from bill to bill. Here majority means the government banks on it meaning the majority has to be mantained all the time or the goverment has lost the majority and -unless there is a possibility for a different coalition- tat means new elections.
    That would rather result in a left 3-party coalition then a Tory-Ukip coalition.
    That looks like new elections to me. Or a minority government - all more likely than a Tory-Ukip coalition.

    As much as I would like Ukip see getting part of an UK government for all the political reasons - I dont see it happening. It's either labour or some hung parliament with no side being able to form a coalition.

    Look at Germany, if the SPD had wanted, they could have prevented Merkel's 3 terms so far ever happening. Cause since she took office there had been a left majority in the Bundestag.

    As for the size of coalitions: yes, we call that Fraktionsdiszpilin. But that doesnt matter in the case of the UK anyway since Westminster systems in general already have strong party discplines through the fact that voting by the legislature against the government is seen to cause the government to collapse.
     
  24. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You believe whatever you want, I'll stick to what we actually know. This is a theorem that's been formally derived and empirically tested. Feel free to peruse the literally thousands of articles on this topic. Or on minimal winning coalitions. There is some criticism that the theorem doesn't hold, especially in some Western European democracies. I'd love to debate you on the merits of the issue. But don't dismiss it because you don't understand it.

    By the way, when Republican posters say nonsense like (paraphrasing) "that's all real and good in theory but in real life things are obviously different," it's no big deal because they're morons, but I expect better from someone who hails from 'enlightened' Europe. Hey, tell me if gravity stopped working where you are. No? Then don't interchange theory with conjecture.
     

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