Ugliness on the pitch = Ugliness off?

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by martymarts, Nov 18, 2004.

  1. martymarts

    martymarts Member

    Mar 11, 2003
    A bunch of EPL games recently seem to highlight how little control referees have over the English game. Pressure to win is high and the attitude appears to be, "so what if you break someone's leg/end their career so long as we win!" At the same time as the EPL's renowned 'tough football' looks in danger of turning into 'thug football', it appears that hooliganism is once again raising it's ugly head? So my question is; is what is happening on the pitch fuelling fan behaviour off it?

    I was at OT for the 'handbags' last year and believe me it wouldn't have been handbags if the police hadn't been there to protect us from an angry mob of fans after the game! If we'd got a kickin that day, you could make a strong case that the prime cause would've been the way that game was played and not the result?

    Thug football is nothing knew. Older fans will eulogise about the 'good old bad old days' and their favorite nutcase player! I remember those days, and the violence on the terraces was out of control. English clubs were banned from european competitions for 5 years after the Heysel Stadium Disaster. The ban probably had a lot more to do with being rid of British supporters in general, than because of that unfortunate incident?

    Football seems to be full of rancour at the moment and perhaps it's bad tempered nature is a reaction to how people are feeling in general? If aggression is the 'spirit de jour' in England right now then surely all the more reason for clubs to exert greater control, rather than offering fans "the Coliseum"?

    Perhaps a good place to start some healing would be our trip back OT for the Carling Cup? So how about Sir Red Nose, how about letting the football do the talking?
  2. Val1

    Val1 Member+

    Mar 12, 2004
    MD's Eastern Shore
    Arsenal FC
    One of the things I always liked about soccer was the control officials had over the game. I was 10 during the 74 WC and the yellow card Cruyff got for arguing at halftime has stayed with me always. Growing up, I saw fights at youth football games among parents and at Little League games I saw adults cursing and generally carrying on like children, but never at soccer games. Fourth game I reffed I tossed a parent from the game and had both coaches come and thank me. Not that soccer was a gentile game, but by and large players played, coaches sat their butts on the bench (none of this working the refs BS). No our beautiful game seems to be infected with the same general immaturity as any other sport.

    I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but I seem to be the only one around here who really took offense to whatever it was that happened in the tunnels of OT. I think anyone who throws anything at an opposing player after a game should be suspended. So, the FA is losing control of the game. It's no surprise that the referees are losing control either.
  3. surfcam

    surfcam Member

    Sep 8, 2004
    Corpus Christi, TX
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good post. I remember playing as a kid and my dad being a ref. We were taught to respect the ref as well as the other team. I did see my dad eject a few coaches and parents who took things to far, but for the most part, we were all fairly well behaved and ate our oranges.

    There will always be a competitive spirit on the field that sometimes results in fouls. This is part of the game and the reason for the ref. But the recent increase in wages to younger and younger players has begun to result in some of them believing they can do whatever they want (see most all players of the NBA). To handle this problem, there needs to be a strict disciplinary arm of the team and FA. The old stern parent rule. Just think of bratty kids. Their parents let them do whatever they want and don't hold them accountable for their actions. As a result, the behavior continues and gets worse over time.
  4. martymarts

    martymarts Member

    Mar 11, 2003
    The worst thing about the tunnel incident is that there are no facts, at least not that I've seen!

    Was something knocked over indiscriminantly in a 'fit of peak', were comments made that engendered a reaction or was it pure spite? One thing is certain, none of the actions taken by Sir Red Nose since have done anything other than to deepen the animosity between the 2 teams!

    The fact is, you can't take what went on after the game in isolation. It was a consequence of what happened on the pitch; a poor level of sportsmanship and poor refereeing! However, other than some simply awful decisions, made harder to call by player reputation and the level of "professionalism", how does a referee take control? If he books players early on, to set out his stall, players simply spend the rest of the game goading the booked player into a sending-off offence?
  5. Miles Brasher

    Miles Brasher Member

    Sep 6, 2004
    It's not necessarily a case of booking or not booking. If you see a game with high stakes and a high tempo, and there's an early nasty foul, the really good refs will manage to calm the player(s) down by just talking, and then using yellows and reds as a last resort and it works. Unfortunately there are too many who think they can do this, either because they think they're best mates with the players or they're Private School Masters, when in reality the players think they're a soft touch and continue to foul and then the game spirals out of control...

    This is one of the arguments for having ex-players as refs.
  6. Bluto11

    Bluto11 The sky is falling!

    May 16, 2003
    Chicago, IL
    In Water Polo officals have lots of control. If there is a call that you do not like and sound any displeasure the ref can kick you out for 30 secs, think penalty in hockey, if you look give him a look he can do it to. Only the captain or head coach can talk to the ref, and then it is only between quarters. It was great because you never had players whining to refs about calls and slowing the game.
  7. Dave_M

    Dave_M New Member

    May 25, 2004
    Indeed. SIR alex is a prime example of someone who always seem to want to blow things out of proportion. Then you get Man U fans whining about the conduct of Arsenal players as they themselves shout "Sit Down you Pedophile" from a stadium that houses as many women and kids as it does blokes.

    Then you have the Sun and the likes of, telling the nations under-educated what to think.

    It all ammounts to general rabble rousing and it seems to rub off on the crowds.

    Its all a bit boring if you ask me :)
  8. martymarts

    martymarts Member

    Mar 11, 2003
    It won't be boring when all the foreign plaers leave and the EPL becomes as good as the SPL? Murdoch won't keep his cash in football if the product he's buying shows excessive violence on the pitch and, worse still, violence in the stands. Contrary to expectations this isn't what most people are interesting in watching. Before the EPL holliganism nearly killed football in England, there's alot more at stake now!

    As for refs talking to players; didn't we see that after nearly every foul in the 50/50 game, and did any player take it seriously? I like the idea of sin bins though and stricter rules about playerstalking to refs. It ups the ante anyway?

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