UEFA in danger of losing World Cup slots?

Discussion in 'World Cup 2014: General' started by zahzah, Jun 22, 2014.

  1. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

    Jun 27, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Its been long coming and pressure from CAF, AFC and CONCACAF has been immense behind the scenes. What they lacked was ammunition...

    5 teams are already out of the World Cup, 3 of them UEFA teams. Several other UEFA teams in precarious positions with regards to progressing (only 2-3 teams in pole position to make it out) it is very much in the realm of possibility that over half of UEFA teams will be out by the knockout phase.

    Coupled with a very strong CONCACAF showing and a high possibility of CAF having 2 teams in the knockout phase (with AFC fate undecided) the ammunition will be there. Given the number of votes between the confederations in question and UEFA's precarious position after two numerically poor tournaments (yet to be seen) it looks like Europe is now desperately fighting for status quo. Else I expect Europe to lose at least 1 slot, maybe even 1,5 slots (with CONMEBOL possibly earning a 5th full slot)...

    The implications of a poor UEFA showing would be tremendous.
     
  2. waitforit

    waitforit Member+

    Dec 3, 2010
    Valcea
    Club:
    FC Steaua Bucuresti
    Nat'l Team:
    Romania
    No they won't, In fact they will have one more place than now because of Russia.
    If what they do at the world cup influences the outcome of the WC places, UEFA would have had more places today at the expense of CAF and CONCACAF in particular
     
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  3. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

    Jun 27, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    It doens't matter who wins or who goes deeper. What matters is group progression.

    Politically the non-UEFA confeds have been claiming UEFA has too many slots. With two World Cups that are poor they would have loads of ammunition.

    Also remember that UEFA only has 54 members out of the 209. Politically they are in a lost position and the only way they can hold onto the slots is by performance.

    If things go south for UEFA I expect UEFA to have 12 slots + host by 2018.
     
  4. waitforit

    waitforit Member+

    Dec 3, 2010
    Valcea
    Club:
    FC Steaua Bucuresti
    Nat'l Team:
    Romania
    #4 waitforit, Jun 22, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2014
    If it did CAF would have had less places than now. They had less than 40% , the worst UEFA can do now which is basically the best CAF can do since they have 5 places.
    UEFA will have 14 places in Russia

    UEFA had 10 R16, 6 QF and all 4 SF in 2006, no UEFA member eliminated by another confed and they still had one place less in 2010. So basically they lost the host place.
     
    Jolly Rancha repped this.
  5. vancity eagle

    vancity eagle Member+

    Apr 6, 2006
    All I know is that the eurosnobs can now be quiet about the Euro's being better than the WorldCup. That is a fantastic claim, little truth to it.
     
    Pipiolo repped this.
  6. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

    Jun 27, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    UEFA has two teams in a group which makes their progression chances higher. So thats a faulty point.

    And CAF will not lose a slot because AFC and CONCACAF will not allow it. They are all on the same boat. Sure - argue with your emotions, but we're talking about politics. And non-UEFA nations are pushing for UEFA to lose slots. If they fail at this World Cup (6-7 teams not making it out) than UEFA will not hold onto its allocation. They were on the brink of losing them as it stood.

    Blatter especially will do anything to stay in power. And staying in power would mean sacrificing UEFA slots.

    p.s. The worst they can do is actually 11%, because only 2 UEFA teams - France + Holland - are sure of progressing at this point (although Germany and probably Belgium are in a good position to do so).
     
  7. waitforit

    waitforit Member+

    Dec 3, 2010
    Valcea
    Club:
    FC Steaua Bucuresti
    Nat'l Team:
    Romania
    Nobody will lose a slot. Technically CONMEBOL will lose one but that is just the host spot moving
     
  8. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

    Jun 27, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Your belief is based on nothing more than bias. Totally ignoring politics. The slot allotment will be announced after the World Cup.

    Blatter has been clamoring for additional African and Asian slots. If Blatter stays on its a given - UEFA will lose slots. If CAF manage to improve and send 2-3 teams additional slots for Africa are a given. With CONCACAFs superb performance I expect they'll also benefit.
     
  9. mfw13

    mfw13 Member

    Jul 19, 2003
    Seattle
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    If you take a spot away from UEFA who do you give it to?

    Cameroon, Honduras, and Japan/S.Korea/Iran have yet to win a match....so which federation deserves another spot?

    The truth is, other than UEFA and CONMEBOL, the other federations already have more spots than good teams...

    Name me another federation besides UEFA that has such depth that its second-tier teams can make the WC semifinals (Sweden 94, Bulgaria 94, Croatia 98, Turkey 02) and quarterfinals (Czechoslovakia 90, Ireland 90, Yugoslavia 90, Romania 94, Denmark 98, Ukraine 06).

    Given the mess that is Qatar 2022, if FIFA tries to take more places away from Europe, UEFA will just leave FIFA...
     
  10. waitforit

    waitforit Member+

    Dec 3, 2010
    Valcea
    Club:
    FC Steaua Bucuresti
    Nat'l Team:
    Romania
    Bias? No I am basing it on what happend in the last world cups and it showed in the past slot alotment has nothing with do with gaining or losing spots

    If you want to talk about how UEFA will lose spots because Blatter wants to be relected sure let's do that but the discusion that UEFA will lose spots if they don't deliver is a non starter
     
  11. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

    Jun 27, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Base it on this:
    CAF 54 votes + AFC 46 votes + CONCACAF 35 votes = 135 votes

    UEFA 53 votes + CONMEBOL 10 votes = 63 votes

    OFC with the remaining 11 votes

    You are absolutely out of touch with reality.
     
  12. waitforit

    waitforit Member+

    Dec 3, 2010
    Valcea
    Club:
    FC Steaua Bucuresti
    Nat'l Team:
    Romania
    So UEFA will lose 3 places now?
    UEFA 2 + CONMEBOL 1?

    Anyway your discusion is about how UEFA will lose places based on performance
     
  13. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

    Jun 27, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    And how many games have Spain, Bosnia and England won? And three of the above teams you mentioned at least have a point each.

    Out of the 5 teams with 0 points after 2 round 3 are UEFA teams.

    CAF for one could have sent Senegal, Egypt, Mali or Morocco, just to name a few.
    CONCACAF could have sent Panama.
    AFC have Uzbekistan and maybe Jordan.
     
  14. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

    Jun 27, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Where did you get that from? They'll like give half a spot here, half a spot here and see where it goes from there. There is only one direction UEFA's slot allocation will go and thats down. It just a question of how quickly that occurs. And this is dependent on UEFA's performances - so they can at least argue that they deserve the slots.

    Yes, because UEFA allocation can only go down. And based on their performance they can stall this or make it happen much faster. If they manage to send - lets say - just 4-5 teams out of the group the blowback on slot allocation may be even bigger.

    UEFA already benefit from having 2 UEFA teams in one group. They often progress by beating another UEFA team. Happened for 3 of the 7 teams that progressed in 2010.
     
  15. mfw13

    mfw13 Member

    Jul 19, 2003
    Seattle
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Yet UEFA has three former World Cup semifinalists that couldn't even qualify this time around (Sweden, Bulgaria, and Turkey)...

    And the reason Spain and England (and possibly Portugal) have done poorly is because they were drawn into Groups of Death, not because they're poor teams. Have them switch places in the draw with other UEFA teams such as Russia, Switzerland, or Bosnia, and they're likely into the knockout rounds without a second thought.
     
  16. mfw13

    mfw13 Member

    Jul 19, 2003
    Seattle
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Trust me....if the FIFA Congress votes to take any more places away from UEFA, that will be the end of FIFA as we know it because UEFA will leave (as likely will the USA)....countries who have never qualified for the World Cup have no business whatsoever voting on anything having to do with the World Cup.
     
  17. jemeldz

    jemeldz Member

    Dec 6, 2013
    paris, france
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Algeria
    and so what. Europe have a huge number of semi finalist because it always had more spots than others.
    It have more former semi finalist than southamerica. But south america, this year, is destroying UEFA teams.

    If we listen to your logic. Africa have a huge number of ACN winners that can not qualify to the world cup.
    Shall we give enough spots to africa to count all the big team of the continent ?
     
  18. mfw13

    mfw13 Member

    Jul 19, 2003
    Seattle
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    My point is that UEFA deserves the spots is has because it has more quality depth, as evidenced by how many of its "minnows" have had success at the World Cup.

    Name me any other federation besides CONMEBOL (who I think should have 5.5 spots) that deserves more spots based on the performance of its teams at the World Cup (rather than pure politics, as Zahzah is arguing).
     
  19. "Eisenfuß" Eilts

    Jul 1, 2005
    In the sun ;)
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    That would be a good move. It is about time to destroy that criminal organisation.
     
  20. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

    Jun 27, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    ROTFL. No, they won't. Europe knows the only way is down. Its a question of how quickly, not whether it will happen.
     
  21. waitforit

    waitforit Member+

    Dec 3, 2010
    Valcea
    Club:
    FC Steaua Bucuresti
    Nat'l Team:
    Romania
    #21 waitforit, Jun 22, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2014
    Europe has the same number of spots as the ROTW minus CONMEBOL. 32-5-13=14 in 2010
    And yet just Croatia and Turkey alone has done more than them. Only S Korea in 2002 under you know what circusmtances has done more than the likes of Ukraine. I am excluding as much as 6 other countries Euro countries here and comapring them to very best ROTW and yet they still fall short

    I am talking post 98


    it's not always beneficial. Spain Portugal England even Switzerland suffered a setback due to losing vs the other UEFA team their direct game (France destroyed any chance of a draw for the Swiss). If the final game in every group with 2 of them would be in matchday 3 I would agree with you but the fact remains UEFA teams also help eliminate each other (when they meet ealier than MD3) so I don't see the huge benefit of that



    And you call me ignorant on the matter. Blatter will take spots from UEFA if he simply just wants to. What they do is irrelevant, if he takes the spots it's because he wants to... let's not pretend it will a results based decision

    And also you need to make the freaking math
    Break it down for me: UEFA loses x spots. Those spots go to.....
    Take 1 spot and make one intercontinetal spot to AFC + CONCACAF? This type of math please

    IMO UEFA should have 4 direct spots converted to 8 0.5 intercontinental playoffs. I think the Euros would agree with that
     
  22. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    #22 Rickdog, Jun 22, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2014
    3 of 7 teams in 2010 ?
    :confused:.........:cautious:
    where did that seventh team go.
    I always thought that only 6 made it to the second round.

    And the only Uefa team that passed to the next phase, whom got the benefit of beating another Uefa team, were Netherlands, whom actually beated everyone in their group and Slovakia whom defeated Italy.
    The rest of Uefa teams that progressed, actually lost (Spain to Switzerland and Germany to Serbia), or had a draw (England with Slovenia), with the other Uefa team. Case of Portugal, progressed in a group with only one Uefa team, them.
     
  23. waitforit

    waitforit Member+

    Dec 3, 2010
    Valcea
    Club:
    FC Steaua Bucuresti
    Nat'l Team:
    Romania
    Oh and BTW S America is in real danger of losing half a spot which basically means losing a spot
     
  24. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    Wait ... so who gets those spots? The next team after Honduras who have 0 points? The next team after Cameroon who have 0 points? The next team after Australia who have 0 points? Are Panama, Jordan and New Zealand supposed to make this WC more competitive than Spain, England and Bosnia?

    CONMEBOL is the only confederation that could make an argument that their 6th team could of performed better at this WC ... but some of that is due to their continental home field advantage. Also CONMEBOL is a small confederation ... only 10 teams. If you start sending 6 or 7 teams it pretty much makes their qualification a waste of time.
     
  25. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    I'd like to see more Inter- Continental playoffs. That would settle things in my book.

    Instead of having Euro teams face Euro Teams in the World Cup playoffs...

    ... have them play the 5th and 6th from South America, The 5th and 6th from Asia, the 5th and 6th from CONCACAF, Couple teams from Africa and/or top team from Oceania, etc.
     
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