UEFA Competitions 2023-2024 Referee Discussions [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, Jun 23, 2023.

  1. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    I think whatever "rules" we thought there were when it comes to assigning in the CL and really international tournaments have all gone out the window.

    Everything has been broken.

    No referee ever did a semi-final and Final. Gone. Not anymore.

    You can't get the Opener and the Final. You only get one. Multiple times broken.

    No referee ever did a round of 16, quarter-final, and semi-final. Gone.

    No referee ever did a first and second leg match jn the semi-final. Gone.

    The only rules that UEFA doesn't seem willing to break are no referee will referee a tie involving both teams from his country and you only get to do one CL Final.

    And I suspect one, if not both, will eventually be broken (latter more likely than former).
     
  2. Orangebarista

    Orangebarista Member

    Feb 22, 2024
    Netherlands
    #577 Orangebarista, Apr 10, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2024
    Yes, let say that as far as my memory goes, this was always avoided in 2nd legs, but not in a 1st. :) Based on Zwayer’s performances recently, I also expected him in Champions League tbh.

    Agree that City-Real has Orsato all over it now. Barcelona-PSG is the other option.

    Dortmund-Atlético could be a very ugly game. Even more when Atlético starts defending and time wasting time from the start.

    On the other hand, City-Real can make a referee look very good… actually, I don’t rule out Vincic in a big game. His play-off Poland vs Estonia was the weakest game of the bunch. It seems, he is shielded for some reason.

    Bayern-Arsenal is the classic football-focused game between (in general) fair teams. Additionally there is an Italian referee observer, which made me think we should see a final candidate for sure. Kovács, Makkelie or Vincic with Bayern again all make sense.
     
  3. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    #578 Khan, Apr 10, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2024
    Meh, the assistant raised his flag as they do nowadays, waiting to see what would happen.

    IMO, had they flagged for offside immediately, as they used to, probably no contact would have occurred. Maybe Mbappe doesn't pursue the ball, with an immediate offside call.

    But because of the stupid "wait to see what happens first" thing they do, there was a dangerous challenge. It would have been terrible if either player had gotten hurt as a result of that coming together. At best, it wastes time and effort.

    The way they do it nowadays is stupid, and I'm surprised no one has gotten hurt. If the man's clearly offside, raise the friggin flag.
     
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  4. Orangebarista

    Orangebarista Member

    Feb 22, 2024
    Netherlands
    Dortmund vs Atlético Madrid: Vincic
    Barcelona vs PSG: Kovacs

    Normally, that leaves Orsato in ManCity-Real Madrid;
    And Makkelie in Bayern-Arsenal, right?

    I can see what they are doing here. If Orsato is used in a Wednesday game, he remains an option in a ‘potential’ PSG semi-final (with Turpin unavailable and Marciniak not ideal after that much discussed handball penalty).

    Kovacs is in the running for the UEL final and therefore we can read this as a “final test”. Vincic avoids the spotlights again. You guys better don’t ask my opinion if he gets the final :)
     
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  5. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What do you think the chances are of a Spanish referee in Bayern? If Makkelie were to be the choice for the final, it would be a way to keep him safe and return the pre-COVID practice of having the final referee skp the QFs and SFs.

    Aside from that (or the Marciniak rumor not being true), I agree that Orsato-Makkelie seems pretty straightforward for Wednesday.
     
  6. Orangebarista

    Orangebarista Member

    Feb 22, 2024
    Netherlands
    #581 Orangebarista, Apr 14, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2024
    I think it's difficult to see a Spanish referee in München. All Champions League appointments have been released one day after the EURO play-offs (semi-finals). My expectation is that Sánchez’ performance in Georgia-Luxembourg has been rejected. Gil Manzano generated a lot of media attention after the Valencia vs. Real Madrid game. Additionally, Arsenal/Bayern are the next opponent of Real Madrid if they proceed. I still think UEFA will try to avoid that, especially at the highest level.

    Bayern-Arsenal has an Italian observer, so Orsato is not possible there. The fact that Makkelie had a domestic game last Friday (on some synthetic turf field close to his residence) confirms my suspicion that he is appointed in the QF CL. And to be honest, that seems sensible to me. He started strong in the first part of 23/24, however in 2024 he has been so-so domestically. He doesn’t have the momentum. Bayern-Arsenal is a sensible final test, between two fair and football focused teams. If he screws it there, he doesn’t deserve it anyway.
    That said, I'm certainly not a fan of Vincic' and his style. I was thinking today: when was the last time he had a 'wow' performance? I don’t recall when he really amazed in a challenging game and I’ve watched him a lot. He’s missing something to reach the Top-3.

    Moreover, I think Zwayer can get a shot in something like Atalanta-Liverpool or Benfica-Marseille.
    Marseille - Benfica has a quite significant observer (Kyros Vassaras); Zwayer or a referee in a EURO-test makes sense. That also could be a Spanish referee tbh, after all the commotion. UEFA won’t underestimate Fenerbahçe - Olympiacos either. I’m predicting an Italian there.
     
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  7. Orangebarista

    Orangebarista Member

    Feb 22, 2024
    Netherlands
    #582 Orangebarista, Apr 14, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2024
    Btw, it must be a huge relief for Makkelie if he gets the final this year. Somehow, I hope that a CL final will give him a massive confidence boost (just like Turpin and Marciniak after their finals). It can help Makkelie to find his top form again, although I might have to steal his Valkeen Molten finger-grip, so that he can’t issue YC’s with whistle in mouth. ;-) I don't like his new style.

    Vincic is 44 y.o. and apparently will continue until WC 2026, he was at the FIFA course in January. This indicates he knows he’s first in line in 2025. Makkelie must be the preferred choice this season due to referee motivations. He’s the most natural option on paper, has been waiting since 2021, was already involved as VAR in 2019 when Vincic' compatriot Skomina officiated the CL-final. It can easily lead to grimacing faces if Vincic gets the final before Makkelie - he’s proud, but also a quite sensitive guy.
    But we obviously have to wait and see what PSG will do… :)
     
  8. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No surprises. Makkelie and Orsato.
     
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  9. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    So Orsato's potential last ever CL game.

    You have to think Turpin (or Letexier) are gonna get one of the four semi-final appointments. Marciniak is a lock for another.

    Taylor/Oliver on the non-english semi-final (Atletico/Dortmund vs. PSG/Barcelona).

    That leaves one more. UEFA some times like to throw in a relatively unknown/inexperienced referee on one of the semis every now and then.

    Or someone who hasn't been at that stage yet.

    Soares Dias last year.

    So someone we aren't expecting. Maybe Jovanovic from Serbia?

    Or a Spanish referee if if it is a Bayern/Arsenal versus Man City semi-final.
     
  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think there’s very little doubt Orsato gets a semifinal.
     
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  11. Orangebarista

    Orangebarista Member

    Feb 22, 2024
    Netherlands
    Sure. As long as Rosetti is the Referee Chief Officer, I can’t see Orsato missing a semi-final. :)
    If PSG is in a semi, even more difficult to leave Orsato out…
    I see Orsato in the return between Atletico/Dortmund - PSG/Barcelona. Marciniak the return in opposite bracket.
    The 3rd name will be a French. The 4th depends on the teams in competition.
     
  12. Orangebarista

    Orangebarista Member

    Feb 22, 2024
    Netherlands
    Well, I have to admit: Manchester City - Real Madrid is the perfect game for a CL farewell. And with both Turpin and Marciniak in the Europa League quarter-final, I can see why people are thinking its Orsato’s last game.

    However if PSG proceeds to the semi-final, they need Orsato and Marciniak in semi-final return games. So, impossible to think it’s Orsato’s farewell. Turpin is managed a bit odd though.
     
  13. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wow huge DOGSO red in to Barca.
     
  14. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    BAR-PSG, doesn’t that have to be inside of the area? The hold/pull seems to continue inside of the area.

    No matter what, it’s a red. But I think you can make a case for that being a spot kick. Admittedly, I’m watching it in a doctor office waiting area, so don’t have a great view of it on TV.
     
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  15. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The length of time it took Araujo to accept his fate and walk off was staggering, even for the moment/team, etc. Like continuing to protest that it wasn't even a foul after more or less everyone accepted it was and were just debating the inside/outside and cover/no cover questions... eesh. Some players, man.
     
  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is a second half (and potential extra time) that could make or break the remainder of Kovacs's international career.
     
  17. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Xavi sent off. Rightfully so. It was such an obvious foul. I don't know why he blew up.

    It is just so bizarre seeing that red card if you just watch the EPL and Arteta.
     
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  18. ColoradoRef

    ColoradoRef Member

    Jul 10, 2011
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Love the decisiveness with which he sent off Xavi.
     
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  19. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
  20. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    He gets it right, but Kovacs will probably never referee Barcelona ever again.
     
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  21. mathguy ref

    mathguy ref Member+

    Nov 15, 2016
    TX
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Thats been a fun 4 minutes. And now Ter Stagen is pushing things.
     
  22. AremRed

    AremRed Member+

    Sep 23, 2013
    Michael Oliver all over again. Kudos to Kovacs though, he has stones.
     
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  23. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All over a simple foul, too. Some coaches, man.
     
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  24. ColoradoRef

    ColoradoRef Member

    Jul 10, 2011
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If that's true (and it's way above my paygrade), what does that say about the state of international refereeing? Two KMIs (DOGSO-red and PK) nailed. One sorta-KMI (red to Xavi) nailed. All three right in real time. Brave decisions.

    It would be a shame for a referee who does everything right in the moment like this to be held off future assignments with a team that will do all it can to walk over referees.
     
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  25. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And another Barca coach sent walking. Kovacs is taking no prisoners.
     
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