Tunisia-Egypt-Qatar Unified Theory Thread

Discussion in 'International News' started by Maximum Optimal, Jan 14, 2011.

  1. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Who the hell talks of Iran leading an Axis of resistance???

    Edit: Oh!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_of_Resistance

    The term axis of resistance was first employed by the Libyan daily newspaper Al-Zahf Al-Akhdar

    Gaddafi!!! :D

    Just remind us what happened to that fella when his OWN PEOPLE got hold of him?

    Anyway, the point is that, hopefully, Morsi will remember that the job of government is to improve the lives of his own people, not to try and force them to become 'better people' ((c) Iran 1979), under threat of murder and torture.

    There's no problem with ANY country sticking up for itself or even for those too weak to defend themselves, (that's why most people in Europe tend to favour the Palestinians rather than the Israelis, even if they don't necessarily support some of their methods), but to use it as a way of deflecting attention away from their own failings is reprehensible.
     
  2. Iranianfootie

    Iranianfootie Member

    Sep 8, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC

    Gaddafi had a longer life once his own people got a hold him than the Chelsea FC jacket my girlfriend got for me last year.

    What IM understands is that the people IN the region do NOT want outside (pimarily US/Western influence at the current time) in their countries. However, what he fails to understand is that the people IN the region do NOT want Iranian influence in the region. They are against hegemonistic powers controlling them. That is why the people (not just the governments) supported Saddam in his war against my country. That is why they are supporting Hamas/Hezbollah/PIJ against Israel. They view Israel as a colonial outpost designed by the West to weaken Arab countries. And they view Iran as a country trying to revive the Persian Empire. In terms of intent, both are equally dangerous. But since Israel's/US's capabilities are much greater, they view Israel and the US as greater threats. If Iran had capabilities close to the US/Israel does, they would view Iran as an equally grave threat that Israel/US is to them today.

    IM's utopian idea of NO meddling in the US in the Middle East REQUIRES Iran to also to stop meddling in the region (ie. for example by supporting a dictator when the region is moving away from such dictatorships).
     
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  3. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Good stuff :D
     
  4. Iranianfootie

    Iranianfootie Member

    Sep 8, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I know. Not all Iranians feel that protecting Assad is the right thing to do. My dad thinks that the US/West needs to DISARM the Syrian army to reduce the bloodshed in this civil war...otherwise the civil war will continue.
     
  5. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Tehran Iran
    I wish you would stop making a fool of yourself, but then again, my wishes have no influence on how you and some of the other clowns here act!

    First, notwithstanding your effort to cover up your foolish remark by diverting the issue to Gaddafi, I think by now you have figured out what the term 'axis of resistance' refers to. In case you missed, from the source you linked:

    Second, as for Gaddafi, Iran considered him a deranged dictator and was quite vocal cheering the people of Libya who sought to get rid of him. Unlike Turkey, for instance, who stood by Ghaddafi for a long time and supported him, even if they suddenly discovered the virtues of human rights and democracy in switching their attitude towards Edrogan's former pal and vacation partner, Bashar Assad. Iran, on the other hand, is kind of consistent: it doesn't support Bashar Assad's system of government or ideology, but it appreciates Assad's role in the so-called axis of resistance. To make sure those who are fighting against US/Israeli hegemony are not weakened, Iran uses its influence on Syria to persuade Assad to accept dialogue with the political opposition and agree to holding free elections to decide the fate of that country, while at the same time vociferously opposing the murderous policies led by the US, Saudi Arabia and the rest of the gang which have managed to arm mercenaries along with Al Queda elements to unleash a civil war on Syria that has so far cost the lives of tens of thousands of people. Shame on those who have done this and all who support them.
     
  6. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Just following your lead mate...
    All of which is a long-winded way of excusing yourself for trying to pass off a phrase that nobody, (apart from Iran and it's satellites and ciphers), uses, as something familiar when it's clearly NOT. I did a quick google search and found four mentions of it on the BBC website and about five on The New York Times and all of them referred to Iran's use of the phrase.

    Face it - no matter HOW many times you fellas keep saying it, you're not convincing anyone.

    Quite honestly you sound like a dodgy used car salesman trying to convince someone that the fact the cars lights won't go off is a 'feature', not a fault.
    And yet he 'parrotted' the same sort of rhetorical crap you do? Are you sure they didn't dislike him because they saw him as an alternative leader of your 'axis of resistance'? That's what it sounds like.
     
  7. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

    Nov 16, 2003
    We're all in the echo chamber here. How often does a post here actually change someone else's mind on a subject? BS members come here with their own pre-conceived ideas. Many spend their time working the dialogue down to exchanges of insults & ad hominem attacks.
    So, enjoy IM while you can. Sooner or later, Iran is going to ban the internet! After all, it's inventing something better!
     
  8. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I like to think sometimes people gain some important information or a different viewpoint but, yes, you're right to a large extent.
    So it's not all bad news then ;)
    :D
     
  9. Mr. Conspiracy

    Mr. Conspiracy Member+

    Apr 14, 2011
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually I have modified many of my views over the years that I have posted here. I have also learned quite a bit about topics that I didn't have as strong a grasp on as I had thought.
     
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  10. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Tehran Iran
    You can't be serious. Its like saying the US was worried that Austria would become an alternative leader of NATO (never mind Austria is not even in NATO) and any frictions between them when Kurt Waldheim was Austria's present was for that reason!

    Iran is a nation of 75 million, with a proud history that has seen itself as the center of many empires in history. Empire which, from the Achaemenids (contemporaries of the ancient Greeks) to the Parthians and then Sassanids (contemporaries of the Roman and then Bzyantine empires), and then the Safavids (contemporaries of the Ottoman empire), were rulers of territories that stretched far beyond Iran's present borders and which included many other states in their sway. It has a political philosophy, ideology, system of government, history and culture, to try to peddle as a model for the Moslem world. Libya under Ghaddafi, by contrast, was a North African nation of 6-7 million, with no such pretensions or potentials, already cowed into submission by the West long before he was overthrown.

    Iran is a nation that produces pretty much everything it requires for its society, from civilian to military goods, from the most basic items to having the largest automobile manufacturers in the entire Middle East and North Africa region bar none, to having a space program that is able to stand on its own two feet and develop rockets that can launch satellites developed in Iran into space, to having a nuclear program that has mastered entire nuclear fuel cycle and produces nuclear fuel despite every attempt to stop it producing such fuel, to military goods from tanks, artillery, aircraft, UAVs, rockets and missiles of all sorts and types, submarines, naval warships, and everything else required for its military to function despite all these sanctions against it. Libya could not produce tooth picks on its own!

    Iran is the largest shia nation on earth. It supported the shia in Iraq and their leadership has ties to Iran. It supports the Alawites (considered an offshot of Shia Islam) in Syria and has a strategic relationship with the Syrian government. It created Hezbollah in Lebanon and turned it into what it is today. Ghaddafi (who certainly wasn't shia) was hated especially by the shia in Lebanon because he was responsible for the abduction and murder of Imam Musa Sadr, the Iranian born spiritual leader of the Lebanese shia. No one took that clown Ghaddafi seriously, outside perhaps some African leaders who he showered with his unearned wealth.

    You comments comparing a clown like Ghaddafi and a state like Libya with Iran are -- at least to me -- a clear reflection of the kind of ignorance by many Westerners towards those societies outside of the West, (and one of the emphatic reasons why you folks should stop meddling in this region and focus your entire political activity as it relates to the region to seeking non-intervention and nothing else), which underlie why I think the sooner this region (the Middle East) is freed from the influence of the West, the better.
     
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  11. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I didn't say I saw him like that. I asked you if they disliked him because they might have viewed him like that. As to whether he was a 'clown'... so, not like the fella on the right here then?

    [​IMG]

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ahmoud-Ahmadinejad-his-outlandish-quotes.html

    On the terrorist attacks of Sept 11 2001 – September 2010

    "Some segments within the American government orchestrated the attack to reverse the declining American economy, and its grips on the Middle East, in order to save the Zionist regime.
    "The majority of the American people as well as most nations and politicians around the world agree with this view."

    On UN sanctions – June 2010

    "They are annoying flies, like a used tissue."

    On the Holocaust – Sept 2009

    "They (the Western powers) launched the myth of the Holocaust. They lied, they put on a show and then they support the Jews."

    On homosexuals – Sept 2007

    "In Iran we don't have homosexuals like in your country ... In Iran we do not have this phenomenon. I don't know who's told you that we have this."

    On Osama bin Laden – May 2010

    "I heard that Osama bin Laden is in Washington DC ... Yes, I did. He's there. Because he was a previous partner of Mr Bush. They were colleagues in fact in the old days. You know that. They were in the oil business together. They worked together. Mr bin Laden never co-operated with Iran but he co-operated with Mr Bush."

    On Paul the Octopus, who 'predicted' the result of World Cup matches – July 2010

    "Those who believe in this type of thing cannot be the leaders of the global nations that aspire, like Iran, to human perfection, basing themselves in the love of all sacred values."

    On wearing ties – July 2010

    "The supreme guide (Ayatollah Ali Khamenei) himself has said in a fatwa that the wearing of ties or bow ties is not permitted."

    On Robert Mugabe – April 2010

    "I condemn all pressures, all satanic pressures, pressures on the government and people of Zimbabwe."

    On George W Bush – June 2008

    "This wicked man desires to harm the Iranian nation."


    OK! he might have something with that last one... but the rest of them are bullshit. :eek: :D
     
  12. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I suppose it also depends how old people are when they start posting here and their background. If they're a younger person, (and by that I mean up to, say, 20's or early 30's), then they might not have been subjected to THAT many different opinions.

    Also, some people don't... how can I put this... well, they 'don't get out much' :D There's the old joke about people 'posting from their mum's basement' but you don't have to go THAT far to be unaware of differing opinions. The number of times I've heard people saying, (not on here particularly, but elsewhere), that 'everyone knows/thinks that XXXX', when what they REALLY mean is that everyone THEY know knows/thinks it. That's the significance of discussions on social media sites, it allows people who normally WOULDN'T get to discuss stuff.

    I'm getting on a bit, I've been involved in politics, (left-wing European socialism specifically), since I was in my early teens and I've travelled quite a bit over the years so I've heard most opinions. Even if I don't necessarily agree with them, at least I'm aware of the different opinions out there.

    Frankly, that's what annoys me about IM. As I understand it, he's also travelled quite a lot and he seems well educated, yet he uses his time here 'parrotting' Iranian talking points and sticking up for 'his side'. It's like politics is a soccer game and supporting your 'lot' is the only thing that matters.
     
  13. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Tehran Iran
    I don't agree with most of those comments/quotes either, and a couple of them may indicate that there are certainly Iranians who are as clueless about the West as the West is about Iran. Big deal. That doesn't change anything about what I posted and said.

    Edit: my post is in reference to post #536
     
  14. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    The thing that annoys me is I don't think for a MINUTE the guy thinks ANY of those things. He's clearly saying those things to appeal to a particularly dozy kind of Iranian. That's also why I say that he could be the Iranian version of Hitler given the right, (or wrong), circumstances.

    It's the same as the BNP over here who try and accentuate people's differences rather than their similarities. Poor black and white people have a LOT more in common than rich whites and poor whites but, for the BNP and their ilk, someone's skin colour is the only thing that matters. Well that's total BS, (and I don't mean bigsoccer).
     
  15. Borussia

    Borussia Member+

    Jun 5, 2006
    Fürth near Nuremberg
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Well, they do know very well what happened i.e. in Iran after overthrowing the Shah dictatorship ... and probably don't want to share the same destiny. The question however is, how many Egyptians really oppose the islamists around Mursi. We'll see.

    It's a fact that Egypt will be facing very tough financial times in the case the country turns from Mubarak's dictatorship into an islamistic one (just when considering the country's dependence on tourism). I still don't understand why they chose Mursi over El Baradei.
     
  16. Anthony

    Anthony Member+

    United States
    Aug 20, 1999
    Chicago
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because like Iran after the las telection, the media forgets that there is more to a country than the semi-westernised upper middle class neighborhoods that the western media focuses on.
     
  17. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    The problem with Egypt, (and it's quite different from Iran in this sense), is that a significant portion of their income comes from tourism. If they make it like Iran, where gangs of religious thugs go around threatening people, that's gonna go RIGHT down the crapper.
     
  18. Mr. Conspiracy

    Mr. Conspiracy Member+

    Apr 14, 2011
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes it will, and while I doubt this would ever happen, there are some radical clerics who want to destroy those tourist attractions:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...ry-_n_2122212.html?view=print&just_reloaded=1

    Now as we see, when given a chance these radicals won't hesitate to destroy any non-islamic religious icons.
     
  19. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Tehran Iran
    The problem with Egypt trying to become an independent country is that they are poor and heavily dependent on foreign aid and investment as well as tourism -- all of which reduce Egypt's ability to pursue a foreign policy that would be seen as irksome to the US, Saudi Arabia, EU and company. Indeed, Egypt's tourism revenues are almost as dependent on remaining in the good graces of its patrons as the direct foreign aid that it receives.
     
  20. Mani

    Mani BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 1, 2004
    Club:
    Perspolis
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    All of this crap in the Middle East is the legacy f British meddling in the region. Besides Iran and Turkey, there is really no proper "nation state" in Middle East and that's the problem. To realize just how absurd the British "drawing of the map" in the Middle East was, read this part:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faisal_I_of_Iraq#King_of_Syria_and_Iraq
     
  21. Mr. Conspiracy

    Mr. Conspiracy Member+

    Apr 14, 2011
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So Egypt isn't an independent country now?
     
  22. Mr. Conspiracy

    Mr. Conspiracy Member+

    Apr 14, 2011
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wel give the French a fair share of the blame as well. The breakup of the Ottoman Empire at the end of WWI created issues and France and GB did what they did for their own benefit, as does the US, Russia, China, etc..Not saying its right, its just how we have historically as a people (humans) have done things.
     
  23. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Tehran Iran
    No, not in my book. They are a bit more independent than they were under Mubarak, but still have a long ways to go to become anything like a genuinely independent country that makes its own policies as opposed to following policies decided for them by others.
     
  24. Mr. Conspiracy

    Mr. Conspiracy Member+

    Apr 14, 2011
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    LOL@you. I am sure the people of Egypt feel much different. Maybe they are under control of the Jews as well right?
     
  25. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    FFS :D

    Most of that was YEARS ago now and, let's be honest, the yanks have been by FAR the greater power for decades now. When are you people going to take some responsibility for your OWN ACTIONS???

    You overthrew the Shah and had the perfect opportunity for an enlightened and free democracy 40+ years ago now. Instead you decided to replace one dictator with another, (Islamofascist), one. That is the Iranian people's fault... NOBODY elses.

    If the Egyptians do the same thing then that will be THEIR responsibility.
     
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