Top Ten Best Passers Ever

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by Dearman, Apr 1, 2010.

  1. Kochees

    Kochees New Member

    Hajduk Split, Tottenham
    Croatia
    May 13, 2017
    Croatia
    The influence of Czech football was present in Split until World War II. I forgot to say that at the end of the 30's in Split as a player and coach came celebrated Czech football player- Jiri Sobotka (23 caps, 8 goals for national team, played the final world cup 1934. Best shooter of the domestic championship with Raymond Braine-1934) . So even in Zagreb (club Građanski- after 1945.-Dinamo) all coaches until 1945 were strangers. Especially from Hungary, but also from Austria and England. All of them have certainly played an important role in joining these parts of Europe with the rest of Europe in football in that time.
     
  2. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    I think some of them were internationals players by Boheme
     
    Kochees repped this.
  3. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #628 PuckVanHeel, May 18, 2017
    Last edited: May 18, 2017
    On a similar note as 'passing after mid-20s';

    I bought a few France Football issues from years where I'm not as sure about who (one or multiple players) were seen as the best in the business.

    I received in the morning one from October 1978 - text by Jacques Thibert.

    "Johan is magic". You can always take the opposite opinion around Stamford Bridge, the Chelsea tief, you will not convince anyone. Bronze as a Catalan, sharp as a blade of Toledo but obviously demobilized for football and its quarrels. Johan Cruyff made a jump in London last week to check if his legs still carry him to the ball. The British doctors are convinced he can. Three and a half months of anticipated retirement have not yet annihilated the 'old man'. Johan is effectively magical.
    [...]
    The great Franz Beckenbauer adds: "Everyone knows Johan has a fantastic effect on the people and players around him. He blends just so well."
    [...]
    With Barcelona's league form in tatters, doesn't he regret now leaving? "I will never forget the people not congratulating me but saying 'thank you'. That made an impression to me going beyond scoring a goal and leaving the club with the trophy they wanted to have. In principle I don't regret but I look forward to helping the club in a different way and moving things ahead. In the grand scheme of things regret doesn't overshadow the blessings."


    I also received the France Football issue of a week earlier, where they played against a World XI. He and Beckenbauer were called "the two best European players of the past ten years" by France Football. "The king was as good as ever against the stars of the world."

    This game is covered equally well, in English, here:
    Show Spoiler

    [...]
    All the more surprising, then, when the largest home crowd in more than a year—some 40,000—turned out to inspect this latest curiosity from the colonies and marvel at the skills of The Great Man, as one British journalist kept calling Cruyff. Beautifully balanced and marvelously adroit, Cruyff strolled through the Chelsea defense with impudent ease. His presence on the field seemed to rouse the Cosmos as well. For once they did not yawn and roll over. Beckenbauer, in particular, looked like a man transformed, striding boldly into attack, working delicate combinations with Cruyff and generally gliding over the field as if on ice skates.

    Out on the flanks Dennis Tueart and Hunt were in full cry, their sudden, surging dribbles creating constant confusion in the Chelsea defense. Only some acrobatic goalkeeping kept the Cosmos from scoring three times in the opening minutes. When the goal did come, it was, ironically, the work of two Englishmen. A burst down the left wing by Hunt, a superbly accurate cross to the far post and there was Tueart leaping to drive a volley into the net. A rout seemed likely.

    But though the Cosmos swarmed around the Chelsea goal, firing a barrage of shots, they were agonizingly just off target, and Chelsea, in one of its rare sorties to the other end of the field, equalized with two minutes left. The game ended in a 1-1 draw.

    "They were a lot better than we thought," admitted Chelsea's Shellito.
    [...]
    https://web.archive.org/web/2012110...vault/article/magazine/MAG1094167/1/index.htm

    Footage of this game must exist, and be hidden somewhere in the ITV archives, as this article says here (including link):
    http://thefootballattic.blogspot.com/2012/01/shoot-28-october-1978.html

    It has a link to the ITV intro which has brief snippets of the game included, but would be great if some day this match pops up (it's effectively comparable to when Maradona and Platini played together on one team in 1987).



    Anyway, long story short, it's very well possible that 'passing' peaks after the age of 25 in case of almost all players (ofc it is more difficult than dribbling like you say, since dribbling is purely individual while e.g. Laudrup - who you put #2 - his passes looked suddenly and immediately much better when he moved to Spain). This is also true for Baresi, Scirea or Krol I'd say.
     
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  4. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Interesting of course that both played successfully together in 1985-86.

    Here are useful articles near the end of his career (i.e. how he and his ability was perceived).
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwL4ev1QI1K6dG5tekN6ZHBlZlE/view
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwL4ev1QI1K6X1JuYlp5VGdPX2s/view
     
  5. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    He certainly did help the club in the future!

    Yes, the passing and ideas peaking after 25 is probably 'typical' I'd think. In the 30s perhaps more rare (Giggs?) but it's uncertain if Cruyff did that - I'd suggest technically not but perhaps his passing game was emphasised due to role (can be similar for Giggs likewise actually), but yeah loads of Barcelona era footage/games would help decide (even equivalent amounts to that now available for Ajax/Feyenoord in the 80s). When he would play as false 9 then even when dropping deep I suppose he didn't have a centre-forward to play the ball to, wheras he did in the 80s have that possibility to pick out the main striker from midfield.
     
  6. Kochees

    Kochees New Member

    Hajduk Split, Tottenham
    Croatia
    May 13, 2017
    Croatia
    Yes, Laudrup became better at club level when he came to Spain. At the national level, he played the best of time while playing at Juventus or even Lazio. It's not strange. Elkjaer, Simonsen, Arnesen, or Jesper Olsen went better to Laudrup's game than players from later generations. Platini, as a Juventus player, was the best player in Europe and had players like Scirea, Cabrini and Gentile (one of the best players in the world in their position, if not the best). The same goes for the middle, where Tardelli and Boniek were next to Platini. However, Bettega was on a career break, but Paolo Rossi was there. The first Laudrup season in Juventus (when they were the champions) there was no more Bettega, Rossi, and more importantly, there were no Tardelli, Boniek and Gentile. The only boost with Laudrup was Aldo Serena. Platini played his last season and only scored 2 goals in Serie A. The next season, the situation was even worse. Cabrini stopped playing in the national team, Scirea almost did not play (6 matches). There was no Platini. In Juventus they came: De Agostini and Tricella who were not even close to quality like Scirea, Gentile and Cabrini. However, Ian Rush arrived, who failed to fit for one year. Juventus in those years simply did not have enough quality. The last Laudrup season in Juventus was roughly at the level of the first season.Anyway, Inter, Milan and Napoli were much better than Juventus. I'm confident that Laudrup did not have a quality team in Juventus.
     
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  7. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    It is maybe interesting to post his profile from around 1987.

    [​IMG]


    On that note, when searching for old players list I did come across another book albeit for the children's market it seemed so I dropped it. But it did have a (rare) foreword by JC14 and in between the smooth talking there is at least one interesting sentence in "I'm pleased the book doesn't concentrate alone on the world's established teams and players because this is too often the case."
    One might say he applied this later as a coach when he helped (had at least a significant influence) to turn Laudrup and Stoichkov into genuine Ballon d'Or contenders (near the very end Figo as well). For example.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I guess you had these sort of examples in mind?



    As opposed to:

     
  9. Ozora

    Ozora Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Aug 5, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea LFC
    Albertini,very great vision and passing skill,especially long pass
     
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  10. Louis Soccer

    Louis Soccer Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Apr 17, 2017
    Top 5 Best Passers - Deep-lying Playmaker
    Didi
    Xavi
    Pirlo
    Gerson
    Beckham

    Top 5 Best Passers - Advanced Playmaker
    Cruyff
    Pele
    Maradona
    Messi
    Ronaldinho/Zico

    Top 5 Best Passers - Mixed Playmaker
    Zidane/Platini
    Rivelino
    Riquelme
    Iniesta
    Socrates

    Top 5 Best Passers - Defender
    Beckenbauer
    Koeman
    Passarella
    Junior
    Breitner
     
  11. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Amazing work puck van heel
     
  12. Alessandro10

    Alessandro10 Member

    Dec 6, 2010
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Zidane shouldn't be in the same sentence with Platini, Riquelme and Iniesta in terms of passing.
     
  13. Edhardy

    Edhardy Member+

    Sep 4, 2013
    Nairobi, Kenya
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    I don't know in which category he'd fit in, but surely Laudrup has to be there somewhere. Perhaps Guardiola too, and certainly IMO Netzer too
     
  14. Hustle and Flow

    Hustle and Flow Member+

    Roma
    Feb 19, 2018
    Canada
    Guardiola , Scholes , Totti
     
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  15. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Cristiano ronaldo is the most underrated playmaking forward in football history
    A player does not make 240 assists in his career by coincidence (he has to have a high degree of game intelligence,link up play and vision

    CRonaldo will of course not make top 10 passer of all time (not even top 50 if we consider all the playmakers from all eras starting in the 50s)

    HOWEVER he does have a demonstrably better all round game than any CF in history and comparable to some of the best wingers of all time
    I just feel as if In Madrid he was made to play to what his managers viewed to be his greatest strength (ie goalscoring)

    However this doesn’t mean he wasn’t heavily involved in build up play in his best seasons

    In 2006/07 ronaldo made 23 assists in a single season
    which was a complete outlier in that era for a winger(and still is even today)

    Wingers like Luis figo did not reach 20 assists in a single season as far as I’m aware(neither did beckham,pires or even Eden hazard in the weak era of EPL)

    Even today wide players like Ribéry or Neymar only managed to do so on high scoring teams with significantly better strikers

    Cristiano Ronaldo (Manchester United)
    2006/07
    23 assists out of 120 team goals
    19% involvement

    http://www.redcafe.net/threads/manc...sts-1987-88-today.396084/page-3#post-16431581


    Neymar (Barcelona)
    2015/16
    20 assists out of 169 team goals
    12% involvement

    2016/17
    19 assists out of 168 team goals:
    11% involvement

    http://messivsronaldo.net/msn-vs-bbc/

    Franck Ribéry
    2012/13
    23 assists out of 151 goals:
    15% involvement

    https://www.goal.com/en/slideshow/4335/49/title/goal-50-2013

    Angel Di Maria
    2013/14
    22 assists out of 159 team goals(inc 2 assists in the copa Del Rey that isn’t mentioned by this source)
    14% involvement

    https://www.realmadrid.com/en/news/...st-tables-in-la-liga-and-the-champions-league

    Manchester United’s reliance on Cristiano Ronaldo to create a significant proportion of their goals cannot be understated
    Creating nearly 20% of his teams total goals doesn’t even come close to demonstrating how influential he was in terms of creating openings with his prolific dribbling,scoring goals and earning fouls (FK and penalties)

    After this season his overall influence over his teams build up waned and he became more focused on scoring and less on build up (as reflected by his Real Madrid career)

    Cristiano Ronaldo was for a single season the greatest playmaking winger in modern football history after which he became a historical goalscorer(still retaining his great wing play capabilities and showcasing it in certain seasons but just never to the same degree as he did in 2006/07)

    2007 ronaldo





    A 16 min comp on ronaldos playmaking abilities (including crossing,short passes,long balls,through balls,assists,pre assists and some of his own pre assisted goals)
     
  16. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Neymar is the greatest winger today does not mean anything
    We are entering a weak era and what makes it worse is Neymar is playing in a very poor league
    Remember no french team has made the champions league semifinals since the 20th century!!!!! only PSG made the QF once

    23 assists by a winger out of 120 goals:19%involvement is a unbroken record even in today’s age of superclubs

    Neymar will hope to equal this supplying mbappe and cavani on a team that scored 170 goals last season(NO CHANCE)
     
  17. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    By far the best medium to long ball passer I've EVER seen was Glen Hoddle and he was also equal with both feet . That's about 50 years of watching footie.,
     
  18. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    Best two around today are Messi and KDB at ManCity
     
  19. wm442433

    wm442433 Member

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    Monaco did in 2004 (Final), Lyon 2010 and Monaco 2017.
     
  20. tony-soprano37

    Dec 5, 2008
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Willem van Hanegem belongs in there
     

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