Top Mid Major Coaches

Discussion in 'Women's College' started by Sledhead, Dec 17, 2019.

  1. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm all the way through teams beginning with S (which means I'm in the home stretch of updating my team histories). One of the things on my mind, from doing this and from discussions of new Washington coach Nicole Van Dyke (from Ivy League Penn) as compared to Eastern Washington's Chad Bodnar (Big Sky) is that when you're looking at how a coach has done, what you're seeing is how the coach has done at the level at which the coach's team is competing. When coaches' teams have been competing at different levels, I'm not confident that comparisons of their records say a lot about how they compare as coaches. Rather, if they've done well at their level of competition, it may mean that they're a possible candidate for a job at the next higher level. With that in mind, here are the coaches I've identified from the Q through S group that look like they might be candidates for upward movement:

    Todd Yelton @ Samford -- Samford's from the historically #18 conference, average conference RPI 0.4821 (the SoCon teams being pretty overrated based on how they perform in non-conference games in comparison to their ratings). Samford itself, however, pretty consistently has been in the Massey #75 to #135 range, which seems excellent for a SoCon team. So he would be a likely candidate for an upward move.

    Mike Friesen @ San Diego State -- his team has tailed off a little the last 2 years, but they often are in the NCAA Tournament range.

    Jim Millinder @ San Francisco -- he arrived in 2012. In 2011 they were #157. In 2019, they were #71, which is an 86 position rise. I can't tell yet from their rankings over time whether they're still on the rise or are as high as he's going to be able to get them. A step up for him would be to a Power 5 team.

    Lauren Hanson @ San Jose State -- She arrived in 2014. In 2013, they were #248. In 2019, they were #123, which is a 125 position improvement. And, that's notwithstanding that in 2018 and 2019 they were a little down from where they'd been. This is one where I wonder if she's taking them as far as is reasonably possible.

    Jerry Smith @ Santa Clara -- yes, it's the WCC and it's Santa Clara. They've been within the top 30 every year but 1 since 2007 when my data base begins. If you count the WCC as a mid-major, he's one of the best -- ever.

    Julie Woodward @ Seattle -- Seattle's been an independent and then in relatively low end conferences, yet has been #83 or better in half the 12 years they've been in Division I. (From a soccer perspective, they should be in the WCC.)

    Michael Thomas @ South Dakota -- it's too soon to tell, as he's been there only 2 years. In 2017, the year before he arrived, they were #273. In 2019, after his two years, they were #185, which is an improvement of 88 positions. He's an example of a coach who could be a candidate to move up a level.

    Denise Schilte-Brown @ South Florida -- they were #130 in 2007, which was her first year. In 2019, they were #32. They've been in the top 40 in 8 out of the 13 years in my data base.

    Katie Shields @ St. Louis -- She arrived in 2013. In 2012, they were #172. In 2019, they were #42. That's a 130 position rise.

    It looks like there are some really good ones in the S group.
     
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  2. Collegewhispers

    Collegewhispers Member+

    Oct 27, 2011
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Pepperdine isn’t on a similar academic level to Big Ten schools??
     
  3. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #103 cpthomas, Jan 7, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2020
    I'm done with the Ts, not much there in terms of mid-majors, just 3 I see that might get looks for a move up one notch but definitely not to the Power 5 level. These all are based on Massey's ratings:

    Steve Springthorpe @ Tennessee Tech -- arrived in 2014. In 2013, they were #307. In 2019, they were 240, which is a 67 position improvement. That's even taking into account a drop back the last 2 years. The next year or 2 will tell more.

    Craig Shaw @ Texas Corpus Christi -- 57 position improvement to #250 in 2019. Another one to watch for another year or 2.

    Glad Burgariu @ Texas RGV -- 76 position improvement over 6 years to #236 in 2019. Same as the above.

    For teams like these, I think one looks to see if climb up the rankings continues over time and where it stabilizes. Does it stabilize at about the best you could expect for the school, or does it stabilize short of the school's true potential?
     
  4. winwinchick

    winwinchick Member

    Celta Vigo
    United States
    Nov 13, 2019
    Not exactly the path. After Miami, took some time off, and then was brought in by his friend as a volunteer coach at Michigan, no background check was need for the volunteer slot. Then off to NC State as the second assistant, with vetting conducted by head coach.
     
  5. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    ther was some evidence a couple years ago that the program still isn’t fully funded. If that’s so, you wonder what the reasonable ceiling is.
     
  6. Lord Kril

    Lord Kril Member

    Pittsburgh Riverhounds
    Jul 3, 2018
    background check??
     
  7. winwinchick

    winwinchick Member

    Celta Vigo
    United States
    Nov 13, 2019

    A background check is a process the university uses to verify that a person is who they claim to be, and provides an opportunity for someone to check a person's criminal record, education, employment history, and other activities that happened in the past in order to confirm their validity.

    The University of Michigan conducts background checks that apply to: Faculty, Staff (Regular and Temporary) and Graduate Student Instructors, Graduate Student Staff Assistants, Graduate Student Research Assistants, and Postdoctoral Research Fellows.
     
  8. USsoccerguy

    USsoccerguy Member

    Feb 5, 2009
    Club:
    Gamba Osaka
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is not why he took the Michigan volunteer job...
     
  9. winwinchick

    winwinchick Member

    Celta Vigo
    United States
    Nov 13, 2019
    I didn’t give a this, and I don’t care about the this, I only gave a that, that which was the path he took, not why he took it. But those are the facts.
     
  10. Sledhead

    Sledhead Member

    Atalanta
    United States
    Jul 14, 2019
    Are you going to continue to speak in code, hoping someone else pipes in and says what you don't seem willing to say? You are obviously itching to share how you feel about Anagnost. Let's hear it.
     
  11. Collegewhispers

    Collegewhispers Member+

    Oct 27, 2011
    Club:
    Columbus Crew

    Definitely some quality coaches in this group. Shields at St Louis has done a great job there. Definitely someone who could step up to a power five position if she wanted to.
     
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  12. Sledhead

    Sledhead Member

    Atalanta
    United States
    Jul 14, 2019
    Impressive on the field, and as a parent watching from afar, her and her staff were impressive in the recruiting process as well. In the end SLU didn't work out for my daughter but she had a years worth of interaction with them and if you ask her 10 months removed from getting some really bad news, she still feels like she has a real connection with them and continues to root for their success. I think that speaks volumes. Class act all around.
     
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  13. Lord Kril

    Lord Kril Member

    Pittsburgh Riverhounds
    Jul 3, 2018
    Thank you for the tremendous follow through and definition. My sixth grader is jealous of your ability to use google effectively! My question was directed toward the blasé nature of you mentioning that he didn’t need a background check—why would you throw that in there?
     
  14. iamdelgado

    iamdelgado Member

    Dec 3, 2019
    Look at what Sean Driscoll has done at Princeton. Several wins vs ACC teams. Elite 8. NCAA wins vs UNC, NC State, BC to name a few. For a mid major that is very impressive.
     
  15. Cantcoach

    Cantcoach Member

    Barcelona
    United States
    Dec 29, 2017

    Got to think if she wants to move on she will have the option to. Sometimes coaches enjoy where they are and maybe staying long term at St Louis is more what she is looking for in her career. But definitely done an amazing job.
     
  16. winwinchick

    winwinchick Member

    Celta Vigo
    United States
    Nov 13, 2019
    #116 winwinchick, Jan 9, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
    oh, the background check would be looked at by most as being necessary for someone coming off a 2-year break from college coaching after getting fired for poor and questionable behavior at Miami. Ryan brought him in as a volunteer, which enabled him to get back into college coaching without facing any administrative scrutiny. It’s all working out at the moment, and the path seems to have been a good one. I was only giving an explanation of the specific path taken
     
  17. Lord Kril

    Lord Kril Member

    Pittsburgh Riverhounds
    Jul 3, 2018
    Stop editing your posts. I can’t speak for everyone but I love your rambling first editions.
     
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  18. Respect the Game

    PSG
    United States
    Apr 17, 2019
    USA
    I agree as well. It appears though that the underlying data being used does not give value or gives only very little value to post season and performance (which matters the most really).

    And since he took over a program already succeeding, that effort probably didn't move the analytic needle enough.
     
  19. PlaySimple

    PlaySimple Member

    Sep 22, 2016
    Chicagoland
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Pepperdine is a nice school with solid academics. It has a high graduation rate is fairly selective with admissions. Graduation rates are an important metric in determining the quality of a school. Another reasonable metric would be the average test scores of admitted students. In that regard Pepperdine would probably be about the same as Purdue, Indiana, Penn State, Rutgers, Illinois, and Minnesota. Average test scores would lower than Maryland, Michigan, Ohio State, Wisconsin, and a lot lower than Northwestern. Pepperdine's test scores would be higher than Iowa and Nebraska. Even so, Iowa and Nebraska are not, as PowerSoccer guy would say, "crap schools."

    All of that said, comparing Pepperdine to the B1G schools is comparing apples to oranges. All of the B1G schools have much larger student populations than do the WCC schools, with the exception of BYU. Pepperdine has less than 4,000 undergraduates and bit more post-graduates than that. It is a much different type of school than the typical B1G institution. I'm not saying that is bad. I'm just saying that it's different. During my schooling I attended larger "research type" public institutions as well as the University of Chicago which is a private and more moderate-sized research institution. UC is probably more the size of most WCC schools. My preference is the smaller school setting. Everyone needs to find what they're comfortable with and what will work for them.

    In no way was I attempting to denigrate the WCC schools from either an academic standpoint or on the field. Placing two teams in the final top 25 (BYU & Santa Clara) is nice work. Pepperdine had a nice season as did Gonzaga and San Francisco and it looks like Portland is trying to get back to the prominence that it once held. My comments are directed toward Sam Miami and what he had to say:
    The "better academics" comment is unequivocally not true and "better soccer programs" is debatable. Just this past year the B1G, SEC, and Big 12 conferences all had a lot more teams highly ranked in the final RPI and United Soccer Coaches poll than did the WCC.

    Academically I gave examples of the schools in the B1G but the SEC has some solid academic schools as well. Missouri, South Carolina, and Tennessee all have admission standards that are as stringent as most WCC schools. Florida and Georgia probably have tougher admission standards and Vanderbilt is one of the toughest schools in the country to be admitted to. Again, to address the PowerSoccer guy's "crap school" comment, the other SEC schools I did not mention are decent schools.

    While most of the Big 12 institutions are not quite at the same level as those in the B1G and the SEC, in general terms, Baylor and Texas are outstanding schools as is TCU. All 3 are similar to what the solid B1G and SEC schools are.

    PowerSoccer guy's "crap schools" quip is one of the most ignorant comments that I have read on these forums. Such uniformed comments show stupidity and are a perfect example of why some things are better left unsaid.

    In my comments describing the academic worth of the above schools, I did not mention athletes being supported in the admissions process by athletic departments. Most here know that happens and it is akin to what the Ivy institutions are doing with likely letters. The key aspect of an athlete attending a solid academic school is that the opportunity is there for them should they wish to take advantage of it. Those are opportunities that are often not afforded non-athletes and should not be squandered away.
     
  20. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here are the last of the ones that have come up in the updating of my team rank histories. When I get a break from some final work on the updates, I'll provide some detail on Princeton. It could be on the list, I was ambivalent about it, and I'll be able to use it as a good "case study." All references are to Massey rankings.

    (PS - the team histories I prepare are not intended for coach evaluations, although they do provide perspective on how a coach's team has done. Rather, they are a tool for coaches to use in evaluating potential non-conference opponents. When I've completed my work on them, which will be by the end of this week, they'll be publicly available in an Excel workbook for anyone who wants them.)

    Tiffany Roberts Shahydak @ UCF -- this is a big question. She's had top 20 teams in 3 of the 7 years she's been there, which ordinarily would put her on the list if one considers the American a mid-major. But, she inherited an excellent program in 2013, and they've tailed off some the last 2 years. It's possible we're just starting to see what she can do on her own. So ?

    Scott Juniper @ UC Irvine -- They've had top 70 teams in 7 of his 13 years, which is good for a mid-major, the Big West in this case. Paul Stumpf @ UC Santa Barbara comes in behind Juniper.

    Derek Pittman @ UTSA -- Only there for 2 years, but has gone from #271 the year before he arrived, in 2 years, to # 163. That's a 108 position rise. So, he's one to watch.

    Chris McLain @ Villanova -- Only there for 3 years, but has taken his Big East team from #193 the year before he arrived to #72 in 2019, a 121 position rise. That's excellent.

    Nate Lie @ Xavier -- Again only there for 3 years, but has taken his Big East team from #161 the year before he arrived to #36 in 2019, a 125 position rise. This is tremendous.
     
  21. PowerSoccer

    PowerSoccer Member

    Dec 3, 2019
    Sorry to offend, but reality is that Northwestern, Michigan and Purdue are far and away the best schools in the Big10. The other schools are decent, not great. Graduation rates are also not a very good metric as some schools push their kids through. Doesn’t make it difficult. The Big10 is full of large state schools. Some great research universities and in sheer volume produce a large alumni base, but let’s not confuse them with UVA, UNC and Duke. Your comment implied that the Big10 top to bottom has terrific academics. They don’t. There are clear front runners. Just like in the SEC with Vandy. Florida and Georgia aren’t even in the same stratosphere academically with the exception of a few programs. Certain programs are strong at certain schools, but it doesn’t mean their overall academics are amazing. Heck, even within the Ivy there is a difference between schools at the top academically and those on the lower end of the spectrum.

    Again, not intending to offend. But the comments are hardly ignorant. They are truthful. I just get tired of the chest beating. Sometimes, schools are what they are. Embrace it. I don’t knock anyone’s choice. But I’m also not going to try and pretend it is something that it isn’t.
     
  22. Almost done

    Almost done Member

    Juventus
    United States
    Oct 4, 2019
    Just my two cents-I know the SEC pretty well. Are Florida and UGA in the same zip code as Vandy? I agree-Not even close but believe it or not Florida and UGA are second and third academically in that conference in most all studies. Albeit a very distant second and third.
     
  23. SoccerTrustee

    SoccerTrustee Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    CPthomas, where can one find the Massey rankings and how they have changed over the past few years?

    And also agree with iamdelgado about Sean Driscoll. Where would he fall? And what about Paul Royal at La Salle and Mick D'Darcy at Central Connecticut State?
     
  24. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In answer to your first question:

    (1) Soon (hopefully today), I'll be publishing an Excel workbook that will include a page for each team and, on that page, the team's Massey and RPI ratings each year since 2007. Plus other information about the team, such as its non-conference opponents' average ratings since 2007. I'll post a notice when I've uploaded the workbook, about how to get it if you want.

    (2) Go here to the Massey Division I women's soccer ratings. In the upper left-hand corner, click on More. In the drop down menu, click on Rating Archive. On the Rating Archive page, in the left-hand column, there's a link for each year. If you click on the link for a particular year, you'll get to the Massey ratings for that year.

    In answer to your second question, all three are good coaches. When I've published the workbook I mentioned, you can go to the pages for those teams, look at the team histories, and see what you think about how good. One of the judgments that's hard to make is what level of ranking a really good coach should be able to achieve with his or her team, given the team's conference, location, funding, etc. Another is how to weigh one or two really good or really poor seasons in relation to the team's other accomplishments over time. You'll have to use your own judgment about that.
     
  25. PowerSoccer

    PowerSoccer Member

    Dec 3, 2019
    Another thing to consider is that it is easier to make the initial jump from a low rating to a good one than it is to go from good to great. At that point, consistency is key.
     

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