A few questions for those familiar with D3. What are the top soccer programs in the country? How many players in MLS have come out of D3 or NAIA programs? What is the quality of play in D3, compared to D1? Thanks, LDB
Well, as a high school Senior wishing to play to play college soccer at a preferably Christian liberal arts college, I've found that Wheaton and Messiah have two of the top Division III programs in the nation. Wheaton's program dates way back and includes some absurd winning percentage over .700 all time. Though, I'm not directly aware of any professional players they've produced. However, many of their alumni coach at other Christian liberal arts schools like Azusa Pacific and Westmont. Messiah, however, was last year's National Champions and bore the same title two years prior. As a note, they tied Wheaton last season, and beat the team Wheaton lost to in playoffs in the championship. Hayden Woodworth, drafted by DC United, was the anchoring center midfield at Messiah for four years. He's now with the Charlotte Eagles. Having observed the program, I can testify to its strength. Honestly, they could compete with most any D1 school. I'm fairly sure that the Rapids' Alex Blake played D3 somewhere Northeast, though not sure where.
In NJ it's Rowan, College Of NJ, Ramapo, William Paterson University, Kean, Montclair State. Those are the Div III schools in NJ
D-III Players in the MLS DAN CALICHMAN | Defender | Williams College (Mass.) Regular Season Year Team . . . . . . . . . GP . GS . . MIN . G . A .PTS ----------------------------------------------------------------- 1996 Los Angeles Galaxy . . 28 . 28 . 2,372 . 0 . 1 . 1 1997 Los Angeles Galaxy . . 32 . 32 . 2,848 . 0 . 0 . 0 1998 Los Angeles Galaxy . . .8 . .8 . . 682 . 0 . 0 . 0 1999 N.E. Revolution. . . . 25 . 25 . 2,009 . 0 . 0 . 0 2000 N.E. Revolution. . . . .4 . .4 . . 308 . 0 . 0 . 0 2000 San Jose Earthquakes . 16 . 16 . 1,442 . 0 . 1 . 1 ---------------------------------------------------------------- Five-year totals. . . . . .113 .113 . 9,661 . 0 . 2 . 2 Playoffs Year Team . . . . . . . . . GP . GS . . MIN . G . A .PTS ----------------------------------------------------------------- 1996 Los Angeles Galaxy . . .5 . .5 . . 401 . 0 . 0 . 0 1997 Los Angeles Galaxy . . .2 . .2 . . 180 . 0 . 0 . 0 1998 Los Angeles Galaxy . . .1 . .0 . . .13 . 0 . 0 . 0 ----------------------------------------------------------------- Three-year totals . . . . . .8 . .7 . . 594 . 0 . 0 . 0 All-Star Game Year Team . . . . . . . . . GP . GS . . MIN . G . A .PTS ----------------------------------------------------------------- 1996 West . . . . . . . . . .1 . .1 . . .45 . 0 . 0 . 0 DAVE SALZWEDEL | Goalkeeper | California Lutheran University Regular Season Year Team . . . . . . . . . GP . GS . . MIN .SHTS SVS . GA . GAA ----------------------------------------------------------------- 1996 San Jose Clash. . . . 14 . 12 . 1,168 . 80 . 53 . 17 . 1.31 1997 San Jose Clash. . . . 20 . 18 . 1,679 .115 . 71 . 35 . 1.88 ----------------------------------------------------------------- Two-year totals . . . . . . 34 . 30 . 2,847 .195 .124 . 52 . 1.64 Playoffs Year Team . . . . . . . . . GP . GS . . MIN .SHTS SVS . GA . GAA ----------------------------------------------------------------- 1996 San Jose Clash . . . . .3 . .3 . . 270 . PETTER VILLEGAS | Midfielder | Kean University (NJ) Regular Season Year Team . . . . . . . . . GP . GS . . MIN . G . A .PTS ----------------------------------------------------------------- 1996 MetroStars . . . . . . .3 . .2 . . 165 . 0 . 1 . .1 1999 MetroStars . . . . . . 30 . 10 . 1,409 . 3 . 6 . 12 2000 MetroStars . . . . . . 29 . 27 . 2,341 . 5 . 6 . 16 2001 MetroStars . . . . . . 22 . 22 . 1,798 . 5 . 5 . 15 2002 D.C. United. . . . . . 18 . 14 . 1,346 . 2 . 5 . .9 2002 MetroStars . . . . . . .7 . .7 . . 607 . 0 . 3 . .3 ----------------------------------------------------------------- Five-year totals. . . . . .109 . 82 . 7,666 .15 .26 . 56 Playoffs Year Team . . . . . . . . . GP . GS . . MIN . G . A .PTS ----------------------------------------------------------------- 2000 MetroStars . . . . . . .5 . .5 . . 424 . 0 . 1 . .1 2001 MetroStars . . . . . . .3 . .3 . . 288 . 2 . 1 . .5 ----------------------------------------------------------------- Two-year totals . . . . . . .8 . .8 . . 712 . 2 . 2 . .6 LANCE KEY | Defender | Trinity University (Tx.) Regular Season Year Team . . . . . . . . . GP . GS . . MIN . G . A .PTS ----------------------------------------------------------------- 2000 Colorado Rapids. . . . 21 . 21 . 1,940 . 0 . 1 . 1 2001 Colorado Rapids. . . . 13 . 13 . 1,193 . 0 . 1 . 1 ----------------------------------------------------------------- Two-year totals . . . . . . 34 . 34 . 3,133 . 0 . 2 . 2 Playoffs Year Team . . . . . . . . . GP . GS . . MIN . G . A .PTS ----------------------------------------------------------------- 2000 Colorado Rapids. . . . .1 . .0 . . .40 . 0 . 0 . 0 JEFF MOORE | Midfielder | Richard Stockton College (NJ) Currently playing for Virginia Beach Mariners in the A-League Regular Season Year Team . . . . . . . . . GP . GS . . MIN . G . A .PTS ----------------------------------------------------------------- 2002 MetroStars . . . . . . 18 . 17 . 1,482 . 0 . 3 . 3 AMOS MAGEE | Forward | Wesleyan University (Conn.) Currently playing for Minnesota Thunder in the A-League Regular Season Year Team . . . . . . . . . GP . GS . . MIN . G . A .PTS ----------------------------------------------------------------- 2000 Tampa Bay Mutiny . . . .7 . .0 . . .51 . 0 . 0 . 0 2001 Chicago Fire . . . . . .1 . .0 . . . 2 . 0 . 0 . 0 2002 Chicago Fire . . . . . .5 . .3 . . 197 . 2 . 0 . 4 ----------------------------------------------------------------- Three-year totals . . . . . 13 . .3 . . 250 . 2 . 0 . 4 Playoffs Year Team . . . . . . . . . GP . GS . . MIN . G . A .PTS ----------------------------------------------------------------- 2000 Tampa Bay Mutiny . . . .1 . .0 . . . 3 . 0 . 0 . 0 NANSHA KALONJI | Defender | Ramapo College (NJ) Currently playing for Carolina Dynamo in the D3/Pro-Select League Regular Season Year Team . . . . . . . . . GP . GS . . MIN . G . A .PTS ----------------------------------------------------------------- 1999 MetroStars . . . . . . 19 . .9 . . 930 . 1 . 2 . 4 GREG SUTTON | Goalkeeper | St. Lawrence University (NY) Currently playing for Montreal in the A-League Regular Season Year Team . . . . . . . . . GP . GS . . MIN .SHTS SVS . GA . GAA ----------------------------------------------------------------- 1999 Chicago Fire . . . . . .3 . 2 . . .247 . 19 . 14 . .4 . 1.46 2000 Chicago Fire . . . . . .2 . 2 . . .180 . 21 . 12 . .8 . 4.00 ----------------------------------------------------------------- Two-year totals . . . . . . .5 . 4 . . .427 . 40 . 26 . 12 . 2.53 LOUIS KEN-KWOFIE | Midfielder | Montclair State (NJ) Regular Season Year Team . . . . . . . . . GP . GS . . MIN . G . A .PTS ----------------------------------------------------------------- 1996 MetroStars . . . . . . .1 . .1 . . .90 . 0 . 0 . 0 ANDRE NUNLEY | Defender | Colorado College Regular Season Year Team . . . . . . . . . GP . GS . . MIN . G . A .PTS ----------------------------------------------------------------- 1998 Colorado Rapids. . . . .1 . .0 . . . 1 . 0 . 0 . 0 ALEX BLAKE | Forward | Williams College (Mass.) Regular Season Year Team . . . . . . . . . GP . GS . . MIN . G . A .PTS ----------------------------------------------------------------- 2003 Colorado Rapids. . . . .1 . .0 . . .13 . 0 . 0 . 0
Great Stuff! Thank you Flying Weasel!! All we usually hear about, are the players coming out of the ACC and what not. It's nice to hear that players coming out of D3 are getting a chance to showcase their skills as the next level. If you could recommend a few programs, would they be the aforementioned ones? What about coaches? The coaches at the D1 level are all so political...is it different in D3, or even NAIA?
I go to Amherst, and we're national top 10 this year for D3. In general we have a very strong program.
south Luv, Greensboro College in NC is a top D3 program. Quality of play over last 6-8 years has been excellent. Other top programs include Roanoke College, Virginia Wesleyan, Hampden Sydney, Christopher Newport, Emory, Salisbury St., Mary Washington. Although several different conferences represented here, most of these schools make an effort to play each other to provide quality games for the players. In my opinion, if you put all these schools in one conference the quality of play from top to bottom would be better than the Southern or Big South conference, obviously lower than ACC, and a notch lower than USA and CAA based on the strenght of the teams at the top of those conferences. Emory- GC game Sunday at 1 in Greensboro would be well worth your time.
Well, since hurricane Isabel missed my house and there's no real cleanup, I might just head over for that game at GC.
Re: south Emory alum here (and former player), GC-Emory game is always a war. GC has had considerable more success when it comes to the NCAA tourney but this is always a big South Region game in D3. as far as another D3 player w/ MLS success. Ryan Nelson played at GC, he then transfered to Stanford and finished up there playing for Bobby Clark. You'll find quite a few D3 players in the A league ranks and in the USL ranks. Bear in mind while there is 150 or so D1 programs there are about 450-500 D3 programs, so there is a wide spectum regarding the level of play in D3. Some aren't much more than HS teams, while others are serious college soccer programs. A bit about my alma matter. Emory plays in the University Athletic Association (UAA) This conference consists of: Emory Univ. (Atlanta, GA) Univ of Chicago (Chicago, Ill) Washington Univ. (St. Louis, MO) Carnegie Mellon Univ (Pittsburgh, PA) Univ of Rochester (Rochester, NY) New York University (NY, NY) Brandeis Univ (Waltham, MA) Case Western Reserve Univ (Cleveland, OH) as you can imagine, we didn't travel to games in vans. Not bad for a D3 athletics to fly around the country. Many D1 programs don't get to travel like this. The conference has a high level of play. Ty Keaugh was the long time coach at Wash Univ (until he became a TV star) From my team alone (my class alone) 2 guys got drafted by the Atlanta Silverbacks and another made the Cleveland Crunch of the MISL. Wash U, Chicago, Emory, Rochester and CMU regularly all compete for the conference crown and the automatic bid into NCAA's So for the person looking into D3 programs, I would certainly recommend checking out the all of the UAA schools.
Top D-III programs If you want a Top 10 list of D-III programs over the last 5-10 years, without doing any real in-depth comparison my list would include the following teams (not in a ranked order, just east to west). I'm sure a case could be made for replacing a few of these teams with other schools, but I think at least half of them would be on everyone's list. Top 10 (Last 5 - 10 Years) Listed east to west Williams College (Mass.) St. Lawrence University (NY) Rowan University (NJ) Richard Stockton (NJ) Messiah College (Pa.) Greensboro College (NC) Ohio Wesleyan University Wheaton College (Ill.) University of Wisconsin-Oshkosh Trinity University (Tx.) Honorable Mention (Last 5 - 10 Years) Listed east to west Middlebury College (Vt.) Ithaca College (NY) Kean University (NJ) Drew University (NJ) Gettysburg College (Pa.) Johns Hopkins University (Md.) Virginia Wesleyan College Bethany College (W.V.) Macalaster College (Minn.) Colorado College Now, if you had asked this five years ago, you'd have some other historically strong D-III programs in the Top 10 like Elizabethtown, Trenton State (now The College of New Jersey), and UC-San Diego who has since moved to D-II. Top 10 (if you had asked 5 years ago) Listed east to west Williams College (Mass.) The College of New Jersey (formerly Trenton State) Rowan University (NJ) (formerly Glassboro State) Elizabethtown College (Pa.) Mary Washington College (Va.) Bethany College (W.V.) Kenyon (Ohio) Ohio Wesleyan University Wheaton College (Ill.) UC-San Diego (Calif.) (now playing D-II) Honorable Mention (if you had asked 5 years ago) Listed east to west Salem State College (Mass.) Rochester Institute of Technology (NY) Ithaca College (NY) Kean University (NJ) Messiah College (Pa.) Muhlenburg College (Pa.) Virginia Wesleyan College Greensboro College (NC) Methodist College (NC) Washington University (Mo.) University of Wisconsin-Oshkosh Colorado College Now there are certainly schools not mentioned who were very good for a 1 to 4 year period, and were perhaps better than the listed teams, but I tried to list teams who had shown staying power over a 5 - 10 year period. As a result, if you listed the Top 10 programs just in the last couple years it would look a little different from my list for the last 5 - 10 years.
I played at Ohio Wesleyan.....top flight program with a hell of a coach (if only the Crew could steal him away).
Let's also not forget about Santiago Solari who currently plays for Real Madrid played college ball at Richard Stockton and was coached by the current Northwestern coach.
Re: D-III Players in the MLS So it can be done but it's just not as likely as coming out of a big time D-1 program. I guess it goes back to if you're good enough they will find you.
This has been great info, thanks so much guys! I'm glad to hear that D3 guys get looks from the pros. I hope terp fan is right....if you're good enought, they will find you. A couple more questions for the D3 experts out there. Since D3 has no athletic scholarships, do coaches help their players get academic money? Because there is no athletic money being doled out, does that mean that there is less political bull sh__ with D3 teams? In D1, a coach is going to play guys getting the most money, even if there are non-scholarship players beating out the big money boys because a coach wants to see some sort of return for his investment. I've seen it happen in the past, and I'm certainly seeing that happen this year. I guess what I'm really asking is this: Is D3 more pure soccer than politics? Do coaches see players for who they are as players? Also, would a D3 welcome a D1 transfer if the kid has excellent credentials and no history of problems? Thanks.
Do coaches go to bat for recruits who they'd love to have but might not be able to swing it financially? I'm sure many of them do. Rather than just the kid and his folks trying to convince the financial aid office of why they need more help to be able to come, the coach is also able to get them to take a second look at his financial package. And there's nothing really wrong with that as long as that's all the further it goes. Is it fair? Not really, but doesn't that just make it a microcosm of life in general. Life isn't always fair and sometimes it comes down to who you know. Now if the upon a second look and under the pressure from the coach they give aid that they wouldn't have given to a non-athlete upon a review of their package, well then you got problems. And I'm sure with 350+ D-III schools that that happens at some schools under some coaches. The other option for the underhanded coach/program is to just have "a friend of the program" give the player money to pay his college bills. There's one D-III school that just got caught doing that and put on probation starting this year. But remember that many of the players probably are just fine with their initial financial aid package and don't have need for the coach to ever get involved. Moreover, the increase in finacial aid most often would come in the form of more loans, not grants or scholarships. Additionally, athletes often get given alot of athletic related work study jobs (gym moniter, equipment sign-out; athletic laundry duty; etc.) that are among the easier jobs and which allow for studying while "on the clock". Again, maybe not the most fair, but nothing wrong about it. Well, I have no idea how much that plays a role in D-I athletics, but you're right that it has no reason to play a role in D-III. You're still going to have some coaches that play favorites for whatever reason of course. But the best coaches are probably the ones that but the best team on the field which gives them the best chance of winning. Coach Brandt at Messiah College is not afraid to play freshmen and sophomores over upper classmen who may have started in past seasons if they are the best for the job at the time. It may seem a little ruthless, but if you treat your players with respect and are very honest and clear in your communication and foster a spirit of team over the individual and get all your players to buy into it, it makes for a very healthy competitiveness that spurs everyone on to be better. But that's getting off-topic. I don't see why not. And I've heard of D-I players joining D-III programs. As long as he's the kind of player the coach believes in and finds to have the right attitude and would be a good fit in the program, why not? In other words, if he's the type player the coach would have recruited right out of high school and having played D-I hasn't gone to his head, why wouldn't he take him. Now I don't think a coach of a successful team would be to interested in a guy who only has one or two years eligibility left, but a guy who's only play a year, maybe two, could be an attractive pick-up.
The only problem with that is that most financial aid these days comes in the form a loan. Sure, that's nice, but let me spend less money on the classes up front that compounding interest, no matter how low the rate is!
Excellent post I can shed some light from a different sport's perspective at the D-3 level. What WEasel said is right, if they want you, coaches WILL definitely go to bat for you in the financial aid process. And more so, if they want you to stay and you're having trouble meeting the $$s, they will fight even harder for you. I would disagree that the only money you'll get from this is loans. I'd guess that it depends on the school but I know that we definitely managed to get more grant money squeezed out of finanacial aid for those who truly needed it. Also, among the great jobs you can get through your athletic office are: SID work, intramural official, and my favorites, ball boy or football chain gang member. Unfortunately these didn't let you study too much but they sure weren't too tough.
hey luvdabears, you looking to transfer? what position do you play? my team would love to get a good forward...