Hmm, interesting. Both the Wikipedia one (linking to another site) and the one in that book I linked above do contain Piola I think (so maybe you meant Meazza, or maybe those are not the FIFA one but picked by journalists). The book does match Wikipedia for 1930-1938 though I see. I think the official All-Star team linked to FIFA did begin in 1994 with the MasterCard sponsored XI. And yeah, 1982 is stated to be when the official Golden Ball was awarded but Wikipedia still lists 1978's 1st, 2nd and 3rd placings. Unless I mixed up with the Ballon d'Or I think there was some sort of awarding done to a top 3 in 1974 too (these things slip my mind easily, but am recalling something Cruyff won that Deyna had recognition regarding too I think).
Bobby Charlton did win a journalists vote for 1966 I'm pretty sure (and 2nd and 3rd could be picked out due to the voting system too).
I did think about checking the Castrol scores too but don't think they are available in full now (not in the same place anyway). I also wasn't that convinced by their calculations I suppose. I think I will mention when a player I name had the highest Castrol score for the World Cup in question though. The next player I name will have! If any of the ones I've already named have then I'll note that later (can't quite remember off the top of my head). btw, if anyone else has other ratings for these players (Placar, El Grafico maybe for example) it'd be cool to see them and enhance the impression of grades given to these players at the times.
No-no I meant Piola. My source is a book untitled "100 ans de Football en France" and I have read it somewhere else too (France Foot?) and very probably the author of the french wiki page who wrote about the Piola's case did the same (here: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Récompenses_de_la_Coupe_du_monde_de_football). The Cruyff and Deyna's story, that rings a bell...I wonder if it was not a sponsor? Can't remember but I'm quite sure there are pictures of that. Well no, I'm not sure. Yep, the 1930 and 1934 teams could be official. Interesting that they thought about making one since the first edition. If they did. '94 ok.
Yeah, interestingly that 1938 selection does include Meazza. And it's listed along with every one of them from 1994 onwards so perhaps it was the first one FIFA did and it was abandoned after the Piola controversy. It must get confusing for you French when you can't distinguish between Ballon d'Or and Golden Ball (translation: Ballon d'Or) and people don't specify which they mean (maybe you can guess when it is someone from a different country referring to the European Player of the Year though!).
Anchor/box-to-box midfielders: Franz Beckenbauer (1966) (Retrospective Young Player of the WC) (Top rated player by Castrol for 1966) (All-Star team member) Lothar Matthaus (1990) (All-Star team member) (Silver Ball) (Average rating from Italian newspapers - 6.7 - joint 5th (with Baresi) - see link posted before) (France Football average - 4.29 with best of 6/6 vs Yugoslavia)
That 1938 selection is the official one published by FIFA. It is the first and last XI they published until 1994. It is not "perhaps". Really. There is no problem in making the distinction between the Golden Ball of the Year and the Golden Ball of one World Cup even in french. And the Ballon d'or France Football was awarded in December-January. Anyway, in all the reports I had the opportunity to read (on paper) Piola was the star, not Meazza for that Cup. He was the most popular because it's him who was the most dangerous and scored goals. FIFA's view was otherwise, maybe a bit more technical but even the specialized newspapers were scandalized Piola was not in the team. Also maybe FIFA favored Meazza because they thought it was the better choice on a "marketing"/ "political" point of view (even if controversial for his life-style in Italy he was nonetheless a star) but they were a bit late because the man of the moment was Piola, truely. And that, the people knew it well. My opinion is that they should/ could have selected both players in the classical 5-men attack of the time but they wanted two real wingers into it so one of the two should be out since Leonidas and Sarosi had to make it. The left winger is Nyberg, the Swedish. On the right it is Titkos. I wonder if Nyberg was really a winger actually...but for him they found a spot in the team..there was many Swedish people at FIFA. This is the one and only official team for that World Cup 1938. With Zézé at midfield too...and no Foni in Defence. Nyberg was an occasional winger if I remember well what I readt and globally a forward who was technical enough and class enough contrarily to the "typical Scandivian player" as one might say, as it was said in fact.
The "FIFA World Cup Golden Ball" is since 1982. However, the "Best young player award" is not retrospective. This distinction existed since 1958 and Pelé. In 1962, FIFA elected Florian Albert for example. Not sure if this prize materialized in a trophy, a medal or something else but that, it was official. The player was designated by FIFA. Once again, the official "All-star team" exists only for 1938 and for 1994 until today on the other hand. FIFA has not even made any retrospective "All-star XI" so it is according to who (even if there is little debate on the partiular case of Beckenbauer '66 but anyway)?
Interesting, thanks. I noted this on Wikipedia though (and do recall the 'introduction' of the best young player award for 2006 I think): The Best Young Player award was awarded for the first time at the 2006 FIFA World Cup in Germany and given to Germany's Lukas Podolski.[27] The award is given to the best player in the tournament who is at most 21 years old. For the 2014 FIFA World Cup this meant that the player had to have been born on or after 1 January 1993. The election took place on FIFA's official World Cup website with the help of The FIFA Technical Study Group.[28] FIFA organised a survey on the Internet for users to choose the "best young player" of the World Cup, between 1958 and 2002, named the best young player of each tournament.[29] With 61% of the overall vote, the winner was Pelé, who finished ahead of the Peruvian Teófilo Cubillas, the best young player at Mexico 1970, and England's Michael Owen, who reached similar heights at France 98.[30] World Cup Young Player Age 1958 Sweden Pelé 17 1962 Chile Flórián Albert 20 1966 England Franz Beckenbauer 20 1970 Mexico Teófilo Cubillas 21 1974 West Germany Władysław Żmuda 20 1978 Argentina Antonio Cabrini 20 1982 Spain Manuel Amoros 21 1986 Mexico Enzo Scifo 20 1990 Italy Robert Prosinečki 21 1994 United States Marc Overmars 21 1998 France Michael Owen 18 2002 Korea/Japan Landon Donovan 20 The Best Young Player Award was first awarded in 2006. So, you are saying that irrespective of any retrospective voting, there were still votes on best young players going back to 1958 in real time?
wm442433, I'm using those all-star teams listed on English Wikipedia (but also saw now some differences in a book I linked in a thread) although I agree/understand that before 1994 (apart from 1938) they were not officially announced by FIFA. I think journalists did compile them, but am less certain on that than that they had votes for the best player of a World Cup amongst themselves. Anyway, yeah probably some of the things I list should be taken as not being certain for some of the older players. But there is reference to them. I just felt it was interesting to add as much as possible in terms of recognition given as well as any average ratings available.
False 9's/Playmakers: Johan Cruyff (1974) (Best Player award) (All-Star team member) (Top rated player by Castrol for 1974) (France Football average - 4.71 with best of 6/6 vs Sweden and Argentina) Raymond Kopa (1958) (Best Player award according to one source? Maybe confused with Ballon d'Or he won for the whole 1958 year) (All-Star team member) (6 assists)
Left-side AM's/Playmakers/Forwards (lining-up left of centre for an all-time all-star selection but both played as free AM's really): Diego Maradona (1986) (Golden Ball) (All-Star team member) (Top rated player by Castrol for 1986) (Average rating from Italian publication/s - 8.00 - top rated player) http://football-ratings.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/average-ratings-world-cup-1986.html (France Footballs average - 4.71 with best of 6/6 vs Belgium) Gheorghe Hagi (1994) (All-Star team member - Official FIFA one which started in 1994 as we've been discussing, and was that year a team of XI and not a squad) (Average rating from Italian publications - 7.10 - second on the list) http://football-ratings.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/average-ratings-world-cup-1994.html (France Footballs average - 4.00 with a best of 6/6 vs Colombia)
I'll copy it to here too then: Weakest teams in the 16 teams and 24 teams era (1950 - 1994) - 44 of 224 teams (bottom 19.6%) Tunisia 1978 - 1678 (Rummenigge) Mexico 1954 - 1676 Mexico 1970 - 1670 (Rivera 1 goal, Riva 2 goals) Australia 1974 - 1667 (Beckenbauer, Müller 1 goal) Switzerland 1962 - 1664 (Szymaniak, Seeler 1 goal) Cameroon 1994 - 1663 (Romario 1 goal, Bebeto 1 goal) Bolivia 1994 - 1662 (Klinsmann 1 goal) North Korea 1966 - 1661 (Eusebio 4 goals) Morocco 1994 - 1661 (Bergkamp 1 goal) South Korea 1994 - 1654 (Klinsmann 2 goals) Wales 1958 - 1653 (Pelé 1 goal) Greece 1994 - 1651 (Maradona 1 goal) Northern Ireland 1958 - 1650 (Szymaniak) Saudi Arabia 1994 - 1646 (Bergkamp, K. Andersson 2 goals) Morocco 1970 - 1637 (Beckenbauer, Müller 1 goal) Israel 1970 - 1635 Switzerland 1950 - 1633 (Zizinho, Ademir) Algeria 1986 - 1628 (Careca 1 goal, Butragueno) Cameroon 1982 - 1627 (Rossi) Algeria 1982 - 1621 (Rummenigge 1 goal) Morocco 1986 - 1618 (Lineker, Matthäus 1 goal) Iraq 1986 - 1618 (Scifo 1 goal) Switzerland 1954 - 1616 (Ocwirk 1 goal) Egypt 1990 - 1615 (Gullit, Van Basten 1 assist) South Korea 1986 - 1608 (Maradona) Chile 1950 - 1605 Kuwait 1982 - 1602 (Platini 1 goal) Turkey 1954 - 1601 (Walter) United States 1994 - 1592 (Hagi, Bebeto 1 goal) Cameroon 1990 - 1591 (Maradona, Lineker 2 goals) Canada 1986 - 1589 (Platini) Switzerland 1966 - 1589 (Beckenbauer 2 goals) New Zealand 1982 - 1583 (Zico 2 goals) South Korea 1954 - 1572 (Kocsic 3 goals) Haiti 1974 - 1559 (Rivera 1 goal, Szarmach 3 goals, Lato 2 goals, Deyna 1 goal) Honduras 1982 - 1559 (Juanito, Santillana etc.) United States 1950 - 1558 Costa Rica 1990 - 1553 (Skuhravy 3 goals, L. Müller 1 goal) United States 1990 - 1544 (Skuhravy 2 goals, Giannini 1 goal) El Salvador 1982 - 1507 (Maradona) El Salvador 1970 - 1490 Bolivia 1950 - 1468 (Schiaffino 2 goals) Colombia 1962 - 1458 (Sekularec) UAE 1990 - 1456 (Matthäus 1 goal)
Now I see Rivera's name again it reminds me that I thought it was interesting that he seemed to be named in an All-Star XI for 1970 according to that book (with online content) I linked yesterday. On Wikipedia it is Rivelino instead (possible for one source to misread another even?).
Right wingers/AM's/forwards: Garrincha (1962) (Best player award/consensus) (All-Star team member) Jairzinho (1970) (All-Star team member) (France Football average - 4.83 with best of 6/6 vs England)
Central attackers: Eusebio (1966) (All-Star team member) (Golden Boot) Pele (1958) (Young Player Award) (All-Star team member) (Silver Boot with 1.5 goals per game) Just Fontaine (1958) (All-Star team member) (Golden Boot with all-time record 13 goals) Mario Kempes (1978) (Best Player award/Golden Ball/equivalent) (Golden Boot) (Highest rated player by Castrol) (France Football average - 4.43 with best of 6/6 vs the Netherlands)
Thuram was indeed highest rated player by Castrol in 1998 too btw. I'll stick with Carlos Alberto in my all-time all-star World Cup XI though (could be switched to more of a 4-3-3 shape with Garrincha in attack, while Kempes would have also fitted in either attack or midfield based on the different roles he played in 78).... -------------------------------Banks 66-------------------------- C.Alberto 70--------Baresi 90-----Moore 66----------Krol 74 ----------------------------Beckenbauer 66------------------ -----Garrincha 62-----------Cruyff 74-----Maradona 86------- ----------------------Eusebio 66------Pele 58-------------------- (Not saying people should agree here of course and it's in line with stuff I've posted previously anyway; if I pick a second squad so that we can have more France Football ratings etc posted here, then I guess it'll start to even moreso be a personal selection which would vary if picked by others - a few in this first XI team probably would be shoe-ins for most people).
I think I know what wm442433 means now about the Young Player awards btw. Firstly, the poll before 2006 was to decide the public choice of best young player from all World Cups before then I think, and I think not to decide the best young players for each of the previous World Cups. And FIFA show on their website for pre-1982 World Cups no Golden Ball winners, but do show Best Young Players along with Golden Boot winners. http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/archive/argentina1978/index.html rsssf does show Kempes winning a Golden Ball in 1978 too though, ahead of Rossi and Dirceu.
When I was calculating the France Football rating averages I had compiled a list of 4 teams worth of players, obviously just from 1970-2006 (when the ratings are available and in 0-6 format) but allowing duplicates of players from different years which I'm not doing on this thread. I can't think of other candidates that might have received more than 5 on average (that Thuram received for 1998) but feel free to leave me a list of players (not too long though please!) if you'd like me to put France Footballs averages for them in a particular year on this thread too. Looking at all of the ratings might be interesting but would be a long job. I might as well add the ones I calculated but which I'm not putting in a second squad now though (some of the players that would be duplicates but a few others too): Gerson 1970 - 4.75 (best of 6/6 vs Czechoslovakia) Franz Beckenbauer 1974 - 4.71 (best of 5/6 vs Chile, E.Germany, Yugoslavia, Sweden and Netherlands) Pele 1970 - 4.67 (best of 6/6 vs Czechoslovakia) Alain Giresse 1982 - 4.5 (best of 5/6 vs Austria, N.Ireland and W.Germany) Franz Beckenbauer 1970 - 4.40 (best of 6/6 vs England) Paul Gascoigne 1990 - 4.33 (best of 5/6 vs Netherlands, Egypt and W.Germany) Ruud Krol 1978 - 4.29 (best of 5/6 vs Peru, Italy and Argentina) Bobby Moore 1970 4.25 (best of 5/6 vs Brazil) Gordon Banks 1970 4.00 (best of 4/6 vs Romania, Brazil and Czechoslovakia) Pierre Littbarski 1982 - 3.83 (best of 5/6 vs Chile) excluding the Austria game Cafu 2002 - 3.71 (best of 5/6 vs Chile) Paolo Rossi 1982 - 3.71 (best of 6/6 vs Brazil) Bixente Lizarazu 1998 - 3.67 (best of 4/6 vs S.Africa, Saudi Arabia, Croatia and Brazil)* Paolo Maldini 1994 - 3.43 (best of 5/6 vs Bulgaria and Brazil) Lilian Thuram 2006 - 3.43 (best of 5/6 vs Portugal) Dennis Bergkamp 1998 - 3.17 (best of 5/6 vs South Korea) *Originally had Lizarazu included in my second squad until deciding I should put in Bossis and also Brehme - I generally might rate him higher still myself and mainly for his play around this time but not sure his peak games or general play in the WC overall surpasses theirs now I think about it so I switched things. From 1986 onwards (1990 onwards since none of these are from 1986) the links I posted earlier from football-ratings BlogSpot will show some average ratings for some of these players too of course. And from 1998 onwards the Kicker ratings are available and linked earlier too. So that will leave me to later post these as a second squad. I've again put in 5 side-backs and just two goalies as I was again a bit conflicted between Brehme (higher ratings, wing-back capability as was shown in that WC) and Bossis (maybe my first idea, and CB/RB capabilities too) - like I say I'm still not duplicating players from squad 1: Goalkeepers - Rinat Dasaev (1982), Michel Preud'homme (1994) Liberos - Laurent Blanc (1998), Daniel Passarella (1978) Centre-backs - Marcel Desailly (1998), Elias Figueroa (1974) although he only played 3 games Side-backs - Jorginho (1994), Wim Suurbier (1978), Nilton Santos (1958), Maxime Bossis (1982), Andreas Brehme (1990). Box-to-box midfielders - Falcao (1982, Johan Neeskens (1974), Bobby Charlton (1966)* Playmakers - Zinedine Zidane (2006), Kazimierz Deyna (1974), Didi (1958) Trequaristas - Michael Laudrup (1986), Zico (1982) Central forwards - Roberto Baggio (1994), Romario (1994), Preben Elkjaer (1986), Ronaldo (1998). * Falcao was more a deep-lying player/playmaker and Charlton an AM of course, especially in the WC's concerned but basically I had in mind a 4-3-1-2 with either two 'box-to-box players surrounding a playmaker (Falcao-Deyna-Charlton) or two playmakers surrounding a box to box player (Zidane-Neeskens-Didi) in midfield. The first XI for this squad I had in mind would then be: ----------------------------Dasaev 82------------------------- Jorginho 94--------Blanc 98----Desailly 98------N.Santos 58 ------------Zidane 06---Neeskens 74---Didi 58------------- ----------------------------Laudrup 86----------------------- ---------------------Baggio 94-----Romario 94--------------
So starting my reserve squad with goalkeepers: Rinat Dasaev (1982) (France Footballs average rating - 4.2 out of 6 with a best of 5/6 vs Belgium) Michel Preud'homme (1994) (All-Star team member) (Yashin award for best goalkeeper) (Average rating of 7.25 from Italian newspapers - top rated player in list) http://football-ratings.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/average-ratings-world-cup-1994.html (France Footballs average rating - 4.5 out of 6 with a best of 5/6 vs the Netherlands and Germany)
Nice mate, If you want, you can post it in this thread (contemporary rankings) http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/wcs-stars-team-by-contemporaries-30s.1986850/
Actually I must have missed that bit about Kopa and European journalists/L'Equipe before (which is why I didn't note it when I posted his details)! Thanks again for all of that post wm442433. I didn't check what the book I noticed online was to be honest, or what was the source of the all-star teams and best players awards mentioned in it.
Going slightly off-topic but interesting to see for 1998 and 2002 FIFA's all-star teams (squads) did have a few extra players named to take the theoretical squad up to a similar size as the overall all-star squad of 2006. Listed on Wikipedia with links to pages like this (also interesting to see the descriptions for players in the main all-star squad): http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/news/y...esignates-mastercard-all-star-team-71747.html Following the two semi-finals, FIFA's Technical Study Group (TSG) has designated the MasterCard All-Star Team of the 1998 World Cup which includes 16 players. The choice of the TSG was based on a pre-selection of some 60 players made on 3 July. The first-ever All-Star Team at a World Cup was designated in 1994 and included players such as Dunga, Hagi, Roberto Baggio and Romario. On behalf of the All-Stars selected, MasterCard, an official FIFA sponsor, will make a total donation of USD 50,000.- to SOS Children's Villages , FIFA's official charity ever since a partnership was struck in late 1996. SOS is a non-donominational charity which was founded in 1949 with the aim of helping orphaned or abandoned children to acquire a family, a roof over their heads and a decent start in life. There are well over 300 villages in far more than 100 countries throughout the world. The FIFA TSG is coordinated by Jürg Nepfer, Head of FIFA's Technical Department, and includes the following members: Rinus Michels (Netherlands), Gérard Houiller (France), Dr. Joszef Venglos (Slovakia), Andy Roxburgh (Scotland), Raul Maganá (El Salvador), CK Gyamfi (Ghana), Osvaldo "Cachito" Ramirez (Peru), Chief Onigbinde (Nigeria), S. Subramaniam (Malaysia) and Oscar Washington Tabarez (Uruguay). MasterCard All-Star Team of the 1998 World Cup GOALKEEPERSFabien BARTHEZ Spectacular, brave- brilliant in the air. Good reading of the game, self-confident. José Luis CHILAVERT Powerful personality player, a leader, fast,good goalkeeper with excellent fieldplayer abilities. DEFENDERS Marcel DESAILLY Wonderful defender, initiative, good reader of the game. Backline leader - charismatic centreback with discipline. Top skills in defensive techniques. Frank de BOER Allround talent; pace, technical ability and good leader in defence Carlos GAMARRA Physically strong - good in the air, important defender for Paraguay. Roberto CARLOS Outstanding left full-back. Fast and good technique; always involved in the game. Lilian THURAM Outstanding right full-back. Can steal the ball from opponents. Physically strong, difficult to beat. MIDFIELDERS Edgar DAVIDS Fierce competitor, teamplayer; quick and extremely good skills. DUNGA «Boss», leader of the team. Playmaker, organises from behind. Good technical ability (variations of passing) Michael LAUDRUP Classical schemer with a great brain and the skills to bring out the best best in his team mates. RIVALDO A great individualist who plays for the team - outstanding left foot. Zinedine ZIDANE A master playmaker. A genius with the ball at his feet. ATTACKERS Dennis BERGKAMP Class - with moments of genius (goal versus Argentina). Brian LAUDRUP Solo finishing, wizzard; best technique in movements - marvelous at running with the ball. RONALDO A match winner - finishes with maximum efficiency - very explosive. Davor ŠUKER A veritable fox in attack! In addition, the TSG mentioned another six players would be added to a theoretical World Cup squad of 22 players. They include: Edwin Van der Sar (HOL, goalkeeper), Thierry Henry (FRA, attacker/midifielder), Jay Jay Okocha (NGA, midfielder), Michael Owen (ENG, attacker), Juan Veron (ARG, midfielder), Christian Vieri (ITA, attacker).