Revised Poll averages Based on top 10 from : Pibe MIG Killer Impaled efernandez Dapip DanRod78 Blue Fox AtNacional I gave 10 pts to 1st, 9 to 2nd, 8 to 3rd, etc. of each poll. 1 Boca Juniors 78 2 Santos 61 3 Cruzeiro 57 4 River Plate 40 5 São Paulo 25 6 Independiente Medellín 24 7 Deportivo Cali 24 8 America de Cali 18 9 Cruz Azul 13 10 Nacional Montevideo 10 11 Olimpia 9 12 Corinthians 9 13 Toluca 8 14 Peñarol 8 15 Atletico Nacional 7 16 The Strongest 6 17 Rosario Central 6 18 Pumas 6 19 Cienciano 5 20 Morelia 4 21 Libertad 4 22 America de Mexico 4 23 San Lorenzo 3 24 Internacional 3 25 Gremio 3 26 Cobreloa 3 27 Flamengo 1 Times a team was mentioned in the poll regardless of position: Santos 8 River Plate 8 Boca Juniors 8 Cruzeiro 7 São Paulo 6 Nacional Montevideo 5 Independiente Medellín 5 Deportivo Cali 4 Peñarol 3 Cruz Azul 3 America de Cali 3 Toluca 2 Corinthians 2 America de Mexico 2 The Strongest 1 San Lorenzo 1 Rosario Central 1 Pumas 1 Olimpia 1 Morelia 1 Libertad 1 Internacional 1 Gremio 1 Flamengo 1 Cobreloa 1 Cienciano 1 Atletico Nacional 1 You can say that some opinions are off the mark when you're the only one to mention 6!!!! teams. 1 or 2 maybe, but 6 Atletico Nacional, The Strongest, Cienciano, Libertad, Cobreloa, Flamengo
That is true, did you read what I posted on Giovanni on the other thread, a team from Arab Emirates is paying Colon de Sánta Fé 1.300.000 euros for a one year loan on Giovanni. Cali sold all the rights to Colon right? Remember Oscar Cordoba, the one called "El dueño de los tres palos en la Bombonera," el Arsenal no se lo llevó porque el Boca pedió mucho por el, pero el Besiktas se los pagó.
Is there an unofficial ranking for leagues? I know that FIFA posted one a few weeks ago and Colombian league was sixth. But I have the feeling that unofficially team managers, players and player managers rank the leagues. For example I have the feeling there are three categories: A. Spain, England, Italy, Germany and maybe France. B. Scotland, Netherlands, Greek, Turkey, Brazil and Argentina. C. All the others. It is very difficult for a player to jump from a C-League to an A-League, and team managers and player representatives try to take players from C teams to B teams, to test them and then sent them to A leagues. For example Angel or Yepes from Colombia, or Solano and Salas. But if you are from a B league to jump to an A league is a lot simpler, partly because of reputation, partly because A managers feel that they are tested and ready to perform in A leagues. Now being rated a C-League does not mean that they do not have money, only that their players are not trusted in A leagues. Mexico, Japan, Arabia, they can pay the price for the likes of Mao, Choronta, Becerra, but it will be equaly difficult to jump from there to the A-leagues. Some times they even move a player from Brazil or Argentina to another B-league in Europe before they can move the player into A league because they need the money or the player needs to mature. Cordoba is a good example. A lot of players in Europe chose to play in B-leagues if they do not get good offers from A-leagues. Besides there are only so many teams in A-leagues and even fewer good and profitable teams. As a note, for me all the second division leagues in Europe are C-leagues.
oscar cordoba went for 2.5 to turkey, the asking price to arsenal was lil higher. DIM got no money for Mao....envigado was the owner. DIM got no money for Baloy..... Felipe Posso, agent was the owner. Perea is on loan with option to buy, the option needs to be negotiated at the end of 2003. el Bogotano vargas.....about the same deal for less money than Perea. we have a thread for those deals and Dept cali's...including treansfer fees Boca also purchase the right to braca Iarley Esteban Fuertes was on loan to Boca, went back to his club. River....also negotiated the way to use marcelo gallardo and Salas (most of the salary is paid by euro clubs) Sold andres d'alessandro for a lot of euros (like 9.2) I like TO SEE THE RANKS BY PERUVIANS, THAT could change the overall rankings done quite good by dapip!
Re: Revised Poll averages Soccer teams have their ups and downs. So in your opinion Boca and Santos are the two best teams in South America UNTIL the next copa libertadores begins? These rankings are current..the thread title doesnt say Top 10 clubs in the libertadores. Cienciano just tied Santos at home last night. I wonder how many of your top 10 could manage that one..in conclusion it was my opinion..i'm right and your wrong. Leave it behind buddy. OH yeah and Man U sucks. Fusion suck too. Marlins are going to lose to the yankees and your climate sucks. THe dolphins suck, Marino sucks, University of Miami sucks, coral gables suck everything you surround sucks.
Re: Re: Revised Poll averages Cienciano tied? I just watch "El show de la Sudamericana" and Alex scored an own goal, I didn't see any Peruvian player put it inside the net. I'm sorry but that's just luck, they were playing not to lose, or at least by a low margin, and they were lucky that it ended 1 - 1, I'm not saying that Santos would have wiped the floor with them, but it could have ended 1 - 0 Santos. Now about the rankings, Cruzeiro wasn't in Copa Libertadores, and they are up there cause from a tournament that lasts 58 or so games, they have been up there for a long time, Boca isn't on top simply cause they won copa libertadores, but because they are leaders in Argentina (LT) and advanced to the 8 best left. I know it all comes down to why DIM is up there and Atl. Nacional isn't, well DIM had a spectacular run in Libertadores, that plus what they are doing in La Mustang is why they are up there. I'm not saying Atl. Nacional isn't good, is just that the rankings are based on play from the last 11 months, and Atl. Nacional just started getting back up to their level, both at home and in La Sudamericana. Atl. Nacional will be back on top in no time, and to prove it they should go back to Libertadores.
atlnacional...thats why we wanted your ranks and others before the finals of suramericana, they could change the whole thing..... Futbol changes every weekend! this thread was to rank the best 10 from The continent: AMERICA, based in games at LT and copas (nissan and/or Toyota) Copa Lib....has more weight for the level of competition....how will you rank cienciano? Look and LT and combine with performance at the other 2 copas (if any) If they win at cusco....they might as well take place #10 in my list (over cobreloa or strongest or Nacional URugu.) If your verdes beat boca twice they get a crack of the top 10.... Until then your verdeeees got nothing to show for in 2004....... may be next month if they lead the finals in colombia, not yet NY lover!
If your verdes beat boca twice they get a crack of the top 10.... Until then your verdeeees got nothing to show for in 2004....... Theres no doubt they will be #10 or even highers (8th or 9th) if they get past Boca, they will have to work really hard to do that. Hopefully Totono will be up to the challenge, and depending on the rest of La Mustang, then yea they have a change to be up there.
Re: Re: Re: Revised Poll averages cienciano where playing with 10 men so they did quite well i dont think santos will survive cuzco cienciano is a high altitude team they struggle playing away against mid table teams in peru im surprised they are even considered top 10 when teams like sporting cristal, alianza lima and alianza atletico are so much better yet its my believe that they are not top 10 material top 10 teams i say would most lickly come from the top 3 leagues brazil and argentina and a couple from colombia ill go away and work on it
Re: Re: Re: Re: Revised Poll averages Yes, the high altitude will certainly affect them, I want Cienciano to win, and yes they did play a good game against Santos. Santos is considered up there cause of what they did in Libertadores, and I think they are in 2 place in the brasileirao, let me check. The rankings could change after La Sudamericana.
If you want a poll to put Nacional on top.. Be honest man!!!! Since the begining you wanted all of us to say that Nacional is on the America's Top Ten and you have overseen all the ranks that do not accomplish that. It means you have ignored other opinions because they do not match yours. Maybe Nacional is rising from its ashes but you said last year and Nacional was not in Libertadores, and sucked in the first Colombian tournament. Cienciano sucks, just got lucky. And football is like that, sometimes a so-so team can get a good result against a good team. As I said, you can put one or two that not everybody will agree. I ranked Gremio and Olimpia and I still think they should be there. Maybe you can make a case for Cienciano and Verde, now can you make a case for the other four teams you ranked? Man. U is always on top of every competition they participate, even if from time to time they drown in bad results. Fusion? The team was closed almost two years ago, not because they suck, but because the idiots make them play 40 miles away from Miami, where nobody watches futbol, but football (yes gorillas with helmets) and alienated the fan base. Even if Marlins loose, they're on the upside like Nacional, and they pay a third of the $160 million in salaries Yankees paid to get to the finals. Dolphins suck, thats a given. Marino sucks as anchor and commentarist, and actor, but he is a retired hall of famer, what were you expecting? UM is always on top, a la Man. U., they stole the title from them last january and they're ranked #2 in the nation. Coral Gables police and rules suck, I agree, but it is a beautiful city. And I agree with you the weather sucks, it is always too hot, too humid, too windy, too rainy, or a hurricane is comming. But Medellin does not have beaches, and it is not 4 hours drive away from Mickey and Goofy (well maybe Goofy moved to Medellin? or DC?)
Getting a 'scientific" approach to rankings. Ok, one more try, to see if we can satisfy some people. Lets remember we are talking last 12 months, not last 2 weeks. I ranked the leagues A, B, C, and D according to performance of their teams in Libertadores and in Sudamericana. A are Brasil and Argentina, B are Colombia, Mexico y Chile,(they have at least a quarterfinalist in libertadores) C are Paraguay, Peru and Bolivia (quarterfinalist in sudamericana) and D the others. A leagues have a 4 multiplier, B leagues a 3, C leagues a 2 and D leagues 1. League champion gets 4 points, 2nd 3, 3rd, 2 and 4th 1. Current leader gets 2 pts and second gets 1 point. Sorry even if you're the leader you're not the champ yet. When the present tournament is over only teams from last tournament will get points. Libertadores gives 5 points to champion, 3 to runner up, 2 to semifinalist and 1 to quarterfinalist. The multiplier for libertadores is 5. Sudamericana has the same scoring method, but multiplier is 3. Right now all teams playing in sudamericana get 1 point, because we do not have semifinalist or finalist yet. When we have a champion, the standings will change a little. Given these asumptions, this would be a "scientific" ranking of south american and mexican clubs. Sorry Nacional does not get into the top 10 this way, but some of the teams from sudamericana get a bump (Libertad, Strongest and Cobreloa) Once Caldas is there based on its championship and Colombian league strength. I do not like this rank, but is another statistical approach. For example Boca gets, (5x5) libertadores, (3x1) sudamericana, (2x4) current LT, and (3x4) previous tournament.(25+3+8+12) 1. Boca Juniors 48 2. Santos 42 3. River Plate 28 4. Cobreloa 20 5. Cruzeiro 20 6. Colo-colo 15 7. Libertad 15 8. Monterrey 15 9. Once Caldas 15 10. Strongest 15 11. Nacional Montevideo 14 12. Alianza Lima 10 13. America de Cali 10 14. Independiente Medellin 10 15. Sporting Cristal 10 16. Atletico Nacional 9 17. Deportivo Cali 9 18. Gremio 9 19. Morelia 9 20. Fluminense 8
a real bad approach! stay with the 'gut feeling' take from your second ranks.... colo colo and river close to each other.....? If I had to redo my rank (from the one 10 days ago) River gets no love and stays 9 or 10 place colo colo, not better than strongest at both levels.
That scientific rank sucks big time I know, but basically I was trying to prove to some goofy that no matter the approach you take you cannot bump in Atletico Nacional into the top ten. Something is clear, Boca, Santos an River are there no matter what. I'll go with my first ranking or the average of all our opinions. When Sudamericana ends and when we get all the national champions, around December 15, it will be possible to create a true ranking for the last year, but still a ranking is a ranking and does not prove anything, like winning a tournament.
This thread is ridiculous. You cant compare every team of the americas based on performance for one year alone. Brazil, Argentina and now Mexico have strong teams (several, not just the top 2 teams) that can probably beat most top two teams from other countries, but they rarely play against each other (if ever), so you cant compare them.
off course we are Just speculating and having our colors a bit over ranked! case DIM......their run to finals of copa lib and the sale of key players, plus the last 10 games in LT call anyone's attention. boca rules santos is a Key name in 3 tourneys (copa nissan and toyota and LT) Cruzeiro is impressive at LT Dept cali....is hanging there.....too bad a mexican club PK the way out for verdess. some one needs to make a case for peruvian or Bolivian or Chilean clubs!
Fresh news.. ESPN top 25 http://yupimsn.espndeportes.espn.go.com/story?id=151887 Actualizado el 19 de octubre del 2003 La tabla es producto de un sistema computarizado desarrollado por ESPN y se da a conocer cada domingo por la noche durante la temporada de fútbol. Vea la nueva clasificación en el SportsCenter Latino dominical, que se emite en vivo desde Buenos Aires 1 AC Milan ITA 317.17 1 2 Juventus ITA 311.17 2 3 Valencia ESP 295.86 18 4 Deportivo La Coruña ESP 286.29 14 5 Boca Juniors ARG 282.40 4 6 Arsenal ENG 280.17 11 7 Manchester United ENG 274.83 6 8 Real Madrid ESP 274.14 3 9 Roma ITA 239.33 NC 10 Stuttgart GER 237.50 NC 11 Chelsea ENG 233.06 NC 12 Ajax NED 230.25 12 13 Bayer Leverkusen GER 230.00 NC 14 Besiktas TUR 226.06 13 15 FC Porto POR 225.25 7 16 Monaco FRA 224.00 NC 17 Bayern Munich ALE 221.00 10 18 Cruzeiro BRA 220.92 NC 19 Borussia Dortmund GER 219.00 22 20 Santos BRA 217.45 5 21 Celtic ESC 210.16 15 22 Marseille FRA 198.50 NC 23 PSV NED 196.25 16 24 Sao Paulo BRA 196.03 NC 25 Osasuna ESP 195.02 Top teams from south America (according to ESPN): 5 Boca Juniors ARG 282.40 4 18 Cruzeiro BRA 220.92 NC 20 Santos BRA 217.45 5 24 Sao Paulo BRA 196.03 NC
i cant make a case for bolivians or chileans but not even drunk and on dope would i rank a peruvian team in the top 10 cienciano tied with santos mainly thanks to good goalkeeping and a lot of courage but there is a reason why they are not in the top 6 out of 12 teams in the clausura my top 10 would consist of mainly argentinian and brazilian clubs with maybe a colombian and mexican club trown in
the best country by country in America: for the last 11 months will be hard to rank 3 form argentina in the top 10, very hard (with recent fall down of las gayhinnas) the same for brazil............you going to need at least 2 from colombia and one from the other ligas: libertad (parag) or strongest did libertad had a good copa Lib? how are they doing in LT? Possible candidate. Primeras cinco posiciones (Jugados, Puntos): ARGENTINA Boca Juniors 10 24 San Lorenzo 10 20 Rosario Central 10 19 Quilmes 10 18 Banfield 10 18 BRASIL Cruzeiro 37 76 Santos 37 67 Coritiba 37 65 Sao Paulo 37 61 Atl. Mineiro 37 61 CHILE Colo Colo 12 27 U.Concepción 12 26 U.Española 12 24 Palestino 12 22 S.Wanderers 12 20 COLOMBIA Nacional 16 29 Magdalena 16 28 Cali 16 28 Tolima 16 26 Medellín 16 25 COSTA RICA Saprissa 10 26 Herediano 10 21 Pérez Zeledón 10 17 Santa Bárbara 10 16 Alajuelense 9 12 ECUADOR, Posiciones del Hexagonal final: (Primera fecha) LDUQ 8 puntos (5 de Bonificación) Barcelona 5 puntos (5 de bonificación) El Nacional 5 puntos (3 de bonificación) Dep. Cuenca 3 (sin bonificación) Emelec 0 (sin bonificación) Dep. Quito 0 (sin bonificación) EL SALVADOR FAS 12 25 Aguila 12 21 Alianza 12 18 Metapán 12 16 Firpo 12 16 GUATEMALA Municipal 12 24 Comunicaciones 12 23 Cobán Imperial 12 19 Xelajú MC 12 17 Teculután 12 15 HONDURAS Olimpia 12 27 Real España 12 23 Marathón 12 19 Vida 12 19 Motagua 12 14 MÉXICO Tecos 13 26 Tigres 12 24 Pumas 13 24 Necaxa 13 23 Atlante 13 22 PARAGUAY Olimpia 17 33 Libertad 17 30 Guaraní 17 26 Cerro Porteño 16 26 Luqueño 16 23 PERÚ Alianza Lima 11 22 Alianza Atlético 11 22 Sporting Cristal 11 18 Sport Boys 11 18 Coronel Bolognesi 11 16 URUGUAY Peñarol 11 26. Miramar Misiones 11 19. Central Español 11 19. Nacional 11 18.
He did not have to prove it! Its clear to all of us what atl. Nacional place is now: Outside top10 read again: Beat Boca twice and we will reconsider, plus the colombian LT is not over yet.
Get over it!!!!! At the end of this year Nacional could be or could be not in the top ten. Right now, climbing to the first place in LT and making it to quarterfinals in Sudamericana is not enough. Sudamericana teams are weaker than libertadores, meaning that at least the libertadores semifinalist should be ranked ahead of any of Sudamericana teams. Plus 2 more top teams from each Brazil and Argentina and CHAMPIONS of good local tournaments, means (4Libertadores+2Brasil+2Argentina+2CHAMPIONS) Nacional is out of top ten. Besides you cannot say Nacional is a clear leader the way Boca is in Argentina. Is only 1 point ahead of two teams and only six points apart from seventh place. And in the finals could be left out. We'll have to wait till December 15 to see Nacional crack his way into the top 10 and to do so it will have to: Be at least runner-up in Colombia and Semi-finalist in Sudamericana. On the other hand is maybe the most improved team during the second half of the year. I give you that.
Atl. Nacional has shown what is expected of them, being "king of cups" and all, they have beaten the teams they should have beaten, Pasto: come on, they gave Medellín some kind of challenge back in Finalizacion 2002, but they are not a consitant team. LDQut up an incredible fight, I tought were gonna go to PKs in Medellín, last minute heroic goal for Nacional. The real test is now Boca, and if you can get past Boca, well you would have beaten the reigning Libertadores Champ, then no doubt Atl. Nacional will not be ignored anymore. Now switching to a different topic, I tought all teams from different countries would eliminate eachother until each country would only have one representative to la Sudamerica, its kinda unfair for Ecuador, Colombia, Peru, Bolivia and so on, to only have one team play with teams from other countries while Argentina has had 2 so far representing them against other teams, San Lorenzo (Previous champ) ok I understand about them. Now Boca will go up against Atl. Nacional, and then who does River go up against? and why is River in there, I mean, Boca being Libertadores champ I can see they get "invited," but River was eliminated by América, why are they in it, if its cause of what they did in Libertadores, then América de Cali should have been in there too. Anyway that's just how I feel about it, some of you many not agree with me, but hey.....
Well at least someone knows about soccer. I think River Plate were invited because they were argentine champs; Boca kinda gave up locally knowing that they were doing well and had a great chance to win the libertadores.