Thursday 29 Feb 2024

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by Stuart95, Feb 28, 2024.

  1. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You can’t have a civil dialogue that 2+2=5.
     
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  2. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #52 falvo, Feb 29, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2024
    Yeah, and obviously, with such a meaningless comeback, I am sure you can.
     
  3. Minnman

    Minnman Member+

    Feb 11, 2000
    Columbus, OH, USA
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Can you name some of them?
     
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  4. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'll point out, again, that American players in American and international sports are banned for multiple years for what Pogba is banned for, and not one of them has decided "you know what, the Constitution doesn't allow this, I'm going to sue and get back into the sport". It also includes people who were banned by international organizations based outside the U.S. as well as banned by U.S.-based organizations. And that includes a number of people who have shown no unwillingness to go to court in the past.

    In other words, there are multiple people who match in every way what Pogba's situation is (other than they are largely American and he isn't) and none of them felt like there was a winnable case. And yet, somehow, Pogba is going to win easily all the way up to SCOTUS?

    This is a deeply unserious argument being made.
     
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  5. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy

    I know many people who came to this country with terrible records and were given work visas.

    This is nothing new.

    Take it ooff the board, i'll give you tons of names.
     
  6. Minnman

    Minnman Member+

    Feb 11, 2000
    Columbus, OH, USA
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "Terrible records"? What do you mean?

    We're talking about someone who's received a 4 year ban from doing a specific type of work.
     
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  7. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I know many people who were ex cons , drug users and dealers and are now working legally in the USA.

    This is has been going on for years.
    .
     
  8. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  9. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    not relevant
     
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  10. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Let’s say I walk up to you outside of a game. You are talking to an Italian acquaintance in Italian. The sounds you make are “meaningless” to me.

    Is that because of the sounds you and your friend are making? Or is it because of my ignorance of Italian, and then my subsequent insistence that the only language in the world is English and you and your friend aren’t making any sense.

    At what point in that conversation would you look at me and say (in Italian, of course) to your friend that I’m an idiot and should be ignored.

    You keep mixing and matching FIFA and US law and being allowed to work anywhere vs work in a specific profession.
     
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  11. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #61 falvo, Feb 29, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2024
    No I'm not.

    I am in fact using the same example on how Pogba can be given a work permit and be allowed the right to work in the USA as a soccer player to apply his trade.

    Again, as I posted initially, I don't see how a judge can not overturn the right for Pogba, a soccer player to earn a living.

    That is his trade and this is the exact same defense Steve Zungul used 41 years ago.

    The argument then was playing soccer was all he knew how to do and they had no right to prevent him from playing and earning a living.

    If it could have been used then, I don’t see how or why it can't be used again today.

    I’m not a lawer but I am sure a judge would allow it and I still don’t believe there is anything FIFA, UEFA or anyone else can block it.

    Again, if an MLS club were to take a chance on him, I'm sure he would permitted to play.
     
  12. Minnman

    Minnman Member+

    Feb 11, 2000
    Columbus, OH, USA
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's no role for a judge, here. It's all up to whether the federal government (US Citzenship & Immigratin Services) would issue him an H-1B visa, which is the type of work visa an athlete must have to work in the States as a soccer player. Pogba isn't a US citizen. He has no right to work here. In any event, MLS - his presumed employer - would need to sponsor him for this to even be possible.
     
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  13. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #63 falvo, Feb 29, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2024
    Sure, but that is my entire initial point.

    Hypothetically, if an MLS team were to take a chance on Pogba, they can get a visa for him.
     
  14. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep, a MLS team could get a visa for him because they can employ him. I don't think anyone is debating that.

    They'll just be paying him to play in friendlies (or can he even do that?) and to be a great training partner, because they won't be able to play him in competitive games.
     
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  15. Stuart95

    Stuart95 Member+

    Mar 11, 2012
    NoVA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Winner, winner ... Green Fuel FC from the Zimbabwe Premier Soccer League
     
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  16. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    MLS players get P-1 visas, the category for athletes, artists, and entertainers. He'd have to have a contract offer and be able to demonstrate that he's eligible and able to play in MLS to get approved for the visa. For MLS to even try that would be an effective declaration that it doesn't recognize World Anti-Doping Agency suspensions, which would open up a huge can of worms.

    Zungul sued when he had been in the US legally for years but was blocked from the NASL by Cold War-era Yugoslavian restrictions on its citizens' movement and pre-Bosman notions that clubs could claim rights to players even when contracts were expired. He wasn't under a punishment for breaking competition rules.
     
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  17. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #67 falvo, Feb 29, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2024
    Both FIFA and the Yugoslavian FA imposed a ban on Zungul.

    He didn’t sue FIFA until four years later but coach Don Popovic told me neither party had a legal right to prevent him from playing and applying his trade.

    Fifa used their dictatorship means though in those years and he was not permitted to play outdoor soccer for 4 years.

    When Popovic took the case to the Supreme Court, they failed to show up because they knew they would lose on the issues they were imposing.

    Zungul desperately wanted to play in the NASL back then and he wanted to stop playing indoors.

    When the league folded he had no choice but to go back to the MISL.

    Something more recent, Liga MX giant Chivas. suspended Eduardo "La Chofis" Lopez, for his alleged involvement of committing a sexual abuse crime against a female at a party.

    Coach Almeyda expedited his visa so he was allowed to play for the Quakes in MLS in 2021-22.

    I can’t recall exactly how it went down but he was supposedly “jumped” or something like that and surprisingly lost his passport on the way back to San Jose which ended his loan agreement.

    I honestly am not sure if he was convicted in Mexico or not or if they just let him go to the Quakes to let things cool down.

    Either way, since he came back to Mexico in June 2022, he is now playing with Pachuca.
     
  18. JayRockers!

    JayRockers! Member+

    Aug 4, 2001
    Joey Barton wasn’t given a visa to do a preseason tour in the USA.

    Some can’t play in Canada due to DUI convictions.

    Zungul effectively served a four year ban 15 years before WADA became a thing. Doping & drugs just weren’t taken a seriously in the 70’s/80’s.

    Thx,

    Jay!
     
  19. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #69 falvo, Feb 29, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2024
    Yeah FIFA still wanted to impose the ban on Zungul which was when Popovic took it to the Supreme Court and where they didn't show up.

    If they had their way though, Zungul will have never played outdoor soccer again.

    Maradona was banned for 18 months after the 1994 World Cup in the USA.

    FIFA supposedly reneged, to allow him to use a weight loss drug before the competition in order to be able to play.

    Anyway I'm not saying Pogba shouldn't be punished but to prevent a player from playing for 4 years for abusing drugs seems excessive.
     
  20. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Zungul's situation had nothing to do with drugs. He defected before fulfilling his required Yugoslavian military service, and his club Hajduk Split convinced FIFA to ban him. So he played in the non-FIFA-affiliated MISL until he won his case in US courts.
     
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  21. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #71 falvo, Feb 29, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2024
    Popovic though told me though indirectly, FIFA still had a huge say on how the MISL conducted business.

    Through the USSF (who was broke at the time) they dictated what their players and/or sport could or couldn't do.

    After the NASL folded in 1985, even though they were solely an indoor league, the MISL was considered the USA's only top Div 1 league in place.

    Thankfully, those days are over.
     
  22. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I mean.... have you seen what's happening in our country lately in regards to the courts??? Sadly, it's not nearly as far fetched of an idea as it should be.
     
  23. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #73 falvo, Feb 29, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2024
    I am watching the New England Revolution vs C.A. Independiente of Panama game in the CCL and they are now up 3-0 on aggergate.

    That means there are now 8 MLS clubs in the round of 16 and at least 2 in the Quarter-finals! :thumbsup:
     
  24. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'll believe it when I see Armstrong do it. Given he's been willing to sue anyone who even looked at him funny over the years.
     
  25. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And he had the opportunity to appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport and didn't do so.
     
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