Three Children Left Behind

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Demosthenes, Jun 29, 2005.

  1. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Today was the last day of school here in NYC so I thought this was a good time to bring up some issues in regards to education.

    After teaching in one of the worst schools in New York City for one year, I've come to some conclusions about the education system:

    1. Local control is better than state or federal control. A year ago I might have said that federal involvement in education could only be a good thing because it means more money. Today I would say the opposite. Keep your money. The more localized the decision-making, the better.

    2. High stakes testing is just about the worst thing ever to happen to public education.

    3. Qualified teachers and (especially) administrators are in woefully short supply. The highest priority for high-needs schools is staffing. Failing schools need serious incentives to attract and keep highly qualified faculty.

    I suppose there are a hundred other things I could say but I'm too drunk to really think about it right now. I just wanted to get the conversation started.

    Oh, the thread title refers to the fact that three of my students failed the citywide English Language Arts Assessment, which for my school is pretty ********ing spectacular. Yet that statistic is so meaningless, it's actually ridiculous. My class learned nothing this year, and any assessment which says otherwise is clearly flawed.
     
  2. christopher d

    christopher d New Member

    Jun 11, 2002
    Weehawken, NJ
    Thanks for doing that. That has to be a suck job.

    If one may ask: what was it that killed off the learning this year? Were you forced to teach a test rather than curriculum? Or was there something else that went on?
     
  3. Mel Brennan

    Mel Brennan PLANITARCHIS' BANE

    Paris Saint Germain
    United States
    Apr 8, 2002
    Baltimore
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sober up and tell us more.
    Or, get pissed and tell us more.
    Whichever state you need to be in to be the most frank and honest, head for that, and tell us more.
     
  4. AFCA

    AFCA Member

    Jul 16, 2002
    X X X rated
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    I wish I was drunk
     
  5. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So I woke up this morning with a splitting headache and a shameful suspicion that I had started a new thread last night. I'm rather surprised that my post was even slightly coherent.

    For my classroom, specifically, the main problem was that I couldn't manage the kids. It's impossible to teach when the class is out of control. That is, apparently, not unusual for a first-year teacher, especially in a difficult school like mine.

    However, I refuse to take the blame entirely -- because frankly I did a lot of things right. In my opinion, the principal of the school deserves most of the blame. She is massively incompetent in pretty much every respect, and provided me with no support, and allowed discipline at the school to deteriorate until the situation there was physically dangerous and hostile to learning.

    I don't envy the woman her position. She has insane pressure from above, demanding higher test scores. Yet she has very little freedom to make changes at her discretion. She does not choose the school's curriculum, she is only responsible for enforcing the very detailed, micoromanaged curriculum requirements imposed on her by the city and state. And she gets flack if she suspends too many students. So she's in a bind.

    Still, I am convinced that an intelligent, competent administrator could really turn the school around, despite all the limitations. The only thing that will really help the school is new leadership. Unfortunately, that is unlikely to happen soon - since the test scores my students earned give the impression that things are getting better.

    Why did my students do so "well?" Mainly, I think the 5th grade citywide English test was easier this year. 5th grade scores went up across the city. I won't go so far as to claim this is a conspiracy to make Mayor Bloomberg look good. But, additionally, I spent about two months doing nothing but test prep with my class. I used to teach SAT prep, so I know that kind of stuff well.

    Last thing - I want to point out that behavior problems were not the only reason learning didn't occur at my school. Other teachers who had great control over their classes still felt like they made little progress, and their test scores were no better than mine. There is one main reason for this. Under Bloomberg and Schools Chancellor Klein, every school in New York City is required to teach the exact same curriculum in the exact same way. The city mandates everything, from the format and content of lessons to the physical arrangement of the classroom. The math and literacy models chosen by the city are not right for the population of students I teach. That's the bottom line.
     
  6. Smurfquake

    Smurfquake Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 8, 2000
    San Carlos, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [ITN]
    You must not be paying attention! The mandate is "No Child Left Behind," not "Three Children Left Behind!" Go back there and get those kids you left behind!
    [/ITN]
     
  7. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The general principle is: the farther you get from the classroom, the less you know and the fewer decisions you should be making. There are too many cooks in the kitchen of public education. Every classroom is different, and teachers need the freedom and support to do whatever is in the best interest of their children, as administrators need the same for their schools. Yet, somehow, in reality, the closer you are to the classroom, the less decision-making power you have. It makes no sense. Let teachers teach.
     
  8. Garcia

    Garcia Member

    Dec 14, 1999
    Castro Castro
    To Sir, With Love!

    Woman, who cares what is mandated, you still have things to teach these kids aside from underfunded crap. You are in a very dangerous position (to some) in which you have more power than you think.
     
  9. dj43

    dj43 New Member

    Aug 9, 2002
    Nor Cal
    Demo,

    you sound like many first year teachers I have heard about from my wife. You are trying to do the best you can, with passion for the children, all the while trying to follow rules set up by people who have spent little or no time in a classroom.

    On top of that, you have an all-too-typical principle who isn't willing to do the hard job of backing classroom discipline and so uses "too many limitations" as an excuse to do nothing.

    Let me offer some advice I have learned from my wife, a 25 year veteran teacher who is a New Teacher Mentor in her local district:

    Follow the rules as much as you must but once you close the door to your classroom, teach the kids. You will learn how to do that.

    Don't be intimidated by all the BS that gets handed down. Do what YOU know works. As you can experience, you will also can confidence, and your students will sense/see that, and will follow direction more readily.

    Finally understand and admit, though regretfully, that you cannot save all the kids. 1/3 will do what they should just because it seems as though it is just their nature to do so. They will need little direction from you. Another 1/3 are on the opposite end. There is little you can do for them, for a variety of reasons. Give them the best chance you can but this is not a battle you will win. There are just too many other factors working against you. Sad but true.

    But in the middle is the final 1/3 that WILL respond to your direction and more constant focus. Those are the ones where YOU can make a difference. Do not allow yourself to be distracted from these kids. They are the future.

    You are having a greater influence than you realize though it is frustrating to not get more direct feedback, but it WILL come in future years.

    And thank you for accepting such a challenge. May God bless your passion and efforts. :)
     
  10. Ian McCracken

    Ian McCracken Member

    May 28, 1999
    USA
    Club:
    SS Lazio Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Sounds like a job for Joe Clark

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "They used to call me Crazy Joe..."

    Yeah, that's another thing. It's kind of taboo to say so, but what schools in poor black neighborhoods really need is strong, black, male leadership. The kids need positive male role models in their lives, and they respond better to adults with a take-charge attitude, who understand where the kids are coming from.

    Where I went to school, teachers had authority because they were teachers. In Bed-Stuy, teachers have authority because they intimidate the children. The kids are used to corporal punishment. They expect authority figures to dominate them with force. Anything short of that is a joke to them.

    This isn't to say that I'm advocating corporal punishment. It's just to point out that there are cultural differences which inform the children's expectations and what they will respond to. Black teachers and principals, frankly, can play that role better.

    Also, Joe Clark was successful because he made the hard decisions. He decided that 20% or so of his students were ineducable, and sacrificed them to teach the other 80%. That is a pragmatic and ballsy move. Unfortunately, it is not a realistic solution for most schools, for so many reasons.
     
  12. URwormfood

    URwormfood Member

    Mar 24, 2004
    6 feet under: LOT 8
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As a former 1 year Art teacher I divided my class between those who wanted to learn..and those who I still had hope in..!

    Took a few weeks...but those who were eager to learn used their peer pressure to subdue those who were destructive to the learning.....Soon after 3 months my room was filled with Bright young minds! My door was always open to any questions...and I always gave honest answers! I decided to let anyone lead the class if they wanted to step up...It was a wondeful to see those I had hope in take control and lead....

    You get no respect as a teacher.....I was offered better beni's...and...3x's the pay elsewhere...so I gave up the teaching ..I still get letters and e-mails from many of my students who thank me..I reply to them...I was nothing without you!

    :(

    ~worm~
     
  13. Michael K.

    Michael K. Member

    Mar 3, 1999
    There or Thereabouts
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nothing but respect for you, for doing what you're doing Demosthenes. I applied for, and got accepted to the first stage of the NYC Teaching Fellows program, and probably would have gone for it, would I have not been already on the way to grad school by that point. Flung into the situation you describe, despite all the best intentions in the world, I can't say I wouldn't be trying to do anything other than tough out three years or so, till I could start looking for the proverbial 48k-a-year spot on Long Island (making up the numbers here, but I can't be that far off). I know that's part of the dynamic that's ********ing up the NYC school system, but just the same. You must be pretty damn dedicated.
     
  14. Mel Brennan

    Mel Brennan PLANITARCHIS' BANE

    Paris Saint Germain
    United States
    Apr 8, 2002
    Baltimore
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No doubt, and they know it. I worked for a very short time for NFTE, under Founder & President Steve Mariotti directly, who - quick history - in 1982 became a Special Education/Business Teacher in the New York City school system, choosing to teach in Bedford-Stuyvesant in Brooklyn and the “Fort Apache” section of the South Bronx. It was working at Jane Addams Vocational High School in the Bronx that led to founding the National Foundation for Teaching Entrepreneurship (NFTE) in 1987...

    ...and it was to Jane Addams that he sent me for an interview, knowing that I was heading out to Dallas to court my soon-to-be-wife, but hoping I'd stay anyway. They were prepared to "fast-track" my application to work at Addams, but I was on the way to TX, and, to be frank, I don't know how you live on the initial salary they offer. I was living in Harlem and couldn't make the numbers work.

    In any case, the truth, however taboo, that many city students are in need of creative, strong male black leadership is no understatement.

    I walked past, and stopped, two fights and one sorta-fight on my way to the office/interview at Addams, and (I'm a 6'7" martial artist, but a 5'9" black man came flying around the corner and got listened to as well) my presence just walking through the halls made a difference, or so I was later told. I remember experiencing the same thing tutoring in 1989 and 1990 at West Philly HS while attending Drexel. I'll be offering my time for tutoring programs within the Baltimore City school district while working as a Visiting Professor at a MD uni this coming year.
     
  15. Mel Brennan

    Mel Brennan PLANITARCHIS' BANE

    Paris Saint Germain
    United States
    Apr 8, 2002
    Baltimore
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So from a teacher's perspective, Demosthenes, what's the way - or the ways - forward?
     
  16. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A good place to start might be to look at charter schools. There are charter schools in the same neighborhood where I teach, teaching the same population of students. Yet they have much better results.

    I'm no expert on what goes on at those schools, but I do know that they have certain freedoms a city public school does not. For example, they are exempt from the city's curricular mandates. Also, they are not bound by the same definitions of corporal punishment and child abuse which the city uses - which prevent schools from doing
    anything which "humiliates" a child or sets him/her apart from the rest of the students.

    Also, one can sort of assume that the professionals involved at a charter school have a high level of committment and a proven track record. And the school can't choose it's students; they're picked by a random lottery. But the parents have to apply. So that sort of weeds out the truly un-involved families.

    Some of these principles could be applied citywide right away. For example, schools do need more options for disciplining students - especially for removing the most disruptive students from the classroom and possibly from the school, and for getting them the help they need. Also, administrators and faculty need more freedom in designing and implementing curricula to suit the needs of their student populations.

    Still, I honestly think the staffing issue is the most immediate and crucial problem in high needs schools. Failing schools don't really need bright, ambitious and dedicated kids just out of college. They need experienced professionals. The only reasons anyone is staying at my school next year are: 1. They are NYC Teaching Fellows who have to finish their second year before they can quit or switch schools, 2. They are unable to find a job elsewhere, 3. They are too lazy or incompetent to get a job elsewhere, or 3. They are insanely committed to helping these kids and will stick it out for another year or two before they are finally driven away.

    The city could create a situation in which qualified, experienced professionals would be competing for jobs at formerly hard-to-staff schools - as they do for jobs at charter schools. Interestingly, charter schools have longer hours and shorter summer breaks, and I don't think the teachers get paid more. But the working conditions are superior enough that they can attract the staff they want. City schools need to compensate for the challenge they are asking teachers and administrators to take on.
     
  17. Barbara

    Barbara BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 29, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To what extent do you think unions contribute to this problem?
     
  18. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's a great question. I think the unions are not doing enough to help. The New York UFT is too busy with negotiating a contract (teachers have been working for 2 years now without one). They are primarily concerned with things like pay raises, duty-free lunches, tenure, etc. And those are imporant issues and I guess that is the union's job. But unless you happen to have a union rep who is really active and passionate and involved in making the teachers' lives better, you can't count on the union to even address poor working conditions or the specific problems at high needs schools.
     
  19. Barbara

    Barbara BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 29, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually, I was wondering to what extent the union protects incompetent teachers.
     
  20. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, I can't really speak to that issue. At my school, finding and keeping teachers is the biggest challenge. Incompetent teachers are welcomed, as being preferrable to no teacher at all.

    It is true that firing a teacher is very difficult, and that protects the incompetent as much as the skilled. On the other hand, the administration can place a teacher anywhere they want. If someone were doing a terrible job as a classroom teacher, he or she could be assigned to the resource room to provide individual academic intervention, for example. Also, the administration could make that person's life hell, until he or she finally decided to transfer to another school or quit.

    If my school is any indication, the inability to fire bad teachers is not nearly as big a problem as the inability to hire good ones.
     
  21. verybdog

    verybdog New Member

    Jun 29, 2001
    Houyhnhnms
    So what's your suggestion on this?
     
  22. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm tapped out. You got anything?
     
  23. verybdog

    verybdog New Member

    Jun 29, 2001
    Houyhnhnms
    How long have you been teaching in this school?

    How long do you plan on teaching in this school?
     
  24. Mel Brennan

    Mel Brennan PLANITARCHIS' BANE

    Paris Saint Germain
    United States
    Apr 8, 2002
    Baltimore
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Interesting; do you think that the emphasis on discipline/exclusion/expulsion/alternative education you seem to be promoting is a result of the struggle to attract/keep good teachers, the inverse (not enough teachers = sum dimunition of the overall interest/discipline), or are those things unrelated? Does NYC have internal school security (not cops, but plainclothes or uniformed security)? How does your school tie itself to community in terms of after-school/creative arts/music/athletic activity?
     
  25. Attacking Minded

    Attacking Minded New Member

    Jun 22, 2002
    IMHO, the most difficult part about teaching is classroom discipline and yes I speak from experience. I myself could not be a teacher as I have a bit of a temper and now, having spent some time in the classroom, beleive in the death penalty.

    With classroom discipline, inexperienced bad teachers have a chance of becoming good teachers.

    Just to second it, God bless you Demo.
     

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