No, it's an International symbol of White Power. Bingo. A lot of Poles blame Jews for what happened in the War and use them as a scapegoat for many of life's ills, much the same way Hitler did. I find it ironic that so many Poles believe that Jews are stealing their land when there are only something like 40,000 Jews in the entire nation. Agreed. I read the piece in FourFourTwo about Fascist Ultras in Poland about six months ago and wanted to vomit, especially the part about Jagiellona Bialystok fans spitting at, throwing bananas at, and invading the pitch to violently beat a Nigerian player on another club considering my relatives are from there. It's a bad thought to imagine your cousin judging people on skin and not sin. Disgusting? You sound like a paranoid Right-Winger to me, SS Nazio-loving trash. Indicting all Eastern-Europeans as racist am I? I'm going but what I've seen both in Poland and in the United States that Anti-Semitism and Racism are dis-preportionately spread through Eastern Europeans as compared to say Lations. I've never been sitting around with my Hispanic friends, see a Black person walk down the street and here one of them say, "Oh how I'd love to pop that fucking n*****," or drive past a Synogogue and hear them talk about torching it. I'm sorry for invading the Metro board like this.
While I'm not big on conspiracy theories and such, all your nonsense about hooligans and the recent "British invasion" of the Metros boards seems to coincide with last nights events. Just one of those things that makes you go hmmmmmm.
Which "millions" exactly are you talking about? Yes, people have done bad things for money, but you can't compare that to the organized murders by Stalin (communism, he killed 25 million, mostly Ukrainians), and by Hitler (racism, 10 million dead in Concentration camps, 6 million of them because of their religion)
Being anti-communist makes me SS loving trash now? lmao...that's the funniest thing i've ever been called thank you for that, really.
Uh Hitler wasn't a Communist, he killed Communists. I've read quotes of his (not sure if they were real) where he spoke of hating commies more than Jews. SS Nazio = A mocking nickname of SS Lazio, a jab at their Fascist Irriducibili. Sheash, you have to spell everything out for the right wing. I guess these are the kinds of people who would vote for a president like Bush.
If you'll read carefully, you'll see I noted the numbers next to Stalin as Communism, and those next to Hitler as RACISM. Hitler hated pretty much anybody that wasn't Aryan. He wanted to exterminate all the Jews, Gypsies, Slavic people (especially the Polish and Russian "subhumans"). It's kind of surprising that he agreed to an alliance with Japan, though that was probably just a convenience until he could deal with them later.
Actually I just misread it but i'll let you believe that i'd be stupid enough not to get it. And Bush is a piece of shite so I really have no idea what you are talking about.
I read it, but I was mistaken, I thought you were grouping them together. Apologies. The alliance with Japan was probably like the alliance with Stalin; strictly for tactical purposes. Had Hitler been successful in Europe, I have no doubt that his next stop would have been Japan. Works for me. I'm just talking about the Right Wing being stupid, that's all. Run along.
No you said "I guess these are the kinds of people who would vote for a president like Bush." If you really think Bush is "right wing" you need a head check. And seeing as you don't support this club I suggest YOU "run along".
The question is, do they see it as being so? To say if a racist uses a symbol makes it a racist symbol is a gross oversimplification. The KKK uses a cross in their symbolism. That doesn't mean it's a racist if it appears on your church wall. We may see it as a racist symbol used by racist fans. But they may see it as a symbol that is a part of their footballing culture. A footballing culture that includes racists.
Capitalism has killed millions, Christianity has killed million, Communism has killed millions, Islam has killed millions......the perversion of anything can kill millions, thats not the point. Natural law is screwed up when someone attempts to prove superiority over another, and impose his will and destiny onto an "inferior" being. This is the same rhetoric that breeds those who gleefully smiled the gassing of millions in Europe in World War II, the falling of Twin Towers containing thousands of lives, the enslavement of my grandparents. There is no place for politics in this sport, or in the ESC. Nazi, Jew, homosexual, born-again Christian, tree-hugger, Communist, leave the politics at the door, this is purely about football, about Metro, about Juskowiak, about the craic-the good time, the passion. There is an appropriate way to handle this that does not stain the creedo of the ESC through violence. We have enjoyed several violence-free seasons in 101 and we should hope for more, and not let these idiot racists, these inbreds masquerading as supporters to ruin the day. Before anyone acts at the next match, think about the consequences not only for you, but also for the ESC, and the considerable reputation we have built that should not be pissed away in acts of bravado and testosterone. There is a way to handle the situation that will both encourage the Poles to come back and liven the atmosphere and also uphold the dignity and tolerance of the section.
Wow. Spec-fvcking-tacular. Like the club didn't have enough issues... Listen, 101 exists solely to support Metro. Racist Poles don't belong, and frankly "skin heads against racism" banners don't belong either. It's a soccer game, not a protest rally. We aren't the UN here, we're a group of fans who like soccer. Metro Front office and the NJSEA know about as much about skinheads, white power groups and communists to lump them all together in the same bucket, label it "trouble" and boot all of us from the section. That doesn't do anyone any good. MFO and NJSEA won't ask you what the guiding principles of your group are when they are throwing you out. They simply aren't able to tell the difference. Everyone should leave their politics, their message shirts, and their banners at home. I am glad that the red and black brigade supports metro in a positive way, but that doesn't make their political statements any more relevant to metro. Most of all, what we don't need, is a pro-racist/anti-racist brawl to break out in the section. Being on the side of the anti-racists isn't going to help anyone out when the club is banned from matches after bringing the first terrace war to MLS. We cannot, and will not tolerate racism in the section, but I think we're all fooling ourselves to suggest that there are not currently closet racists, homophobes, etc in the section. To date, we have been largely free of outward displays of the kind we saw on Saturday. We will take steps to make sure that the section stays pro-Metro. But everyone, everyone, needs to remember that we go to games to support our team, not as a stage to broadcast our views on society.
Basically what you're saying is that if a symbol is meant to be racist outside of football, and is racist in football, it's ok to use it because it is part of the football culture?
No, you seemed to indicate a laizze-faire approach which would merely promulgate the racism and increase the tension in the section. 101 has been flat enough as it is without nervous glances and stares and more wispering and clicks. This situation must be taken care of, and not simply ignored. Sometimes, in life, there are things bigger then Metro, and this issue is one of them: we cannot merely overlook it in the name of more support. We must have a moral backbone and a collective conscience on this one, and I believe that Jamison and Metrocorazon are correct in their sentiments.
You cant fault a crazed maniac for doing what he wants. It had nothing to do with Communism and everything to do with his his own personal beleifs. There's nothing in communism that says "people must be killed if they dont do this" much like there isnt in capitalism. Take power and be in a capitalist society and kill everyone who opposes him. I bet the same amount of people that communism killed have been killed because of capitalism. MAybe you see "killing" as point blank shooting someone and killing them. Fair enough, but there are many more ways to kill people, like putting them in poverty and starving them. Things that you dont see everyday and are not seen as a problem of the economic system in place. We are lucky to even have things like welfare in the USA, even with the position that puts many poor people in bad neighborhoods where they will be KILLED because of where they live because they dont have $$ in a system that would probably keep them down for the rest of their lives unless they are of a chosen few. People in other countries are even far worse and dying everyday while others get to live in $50M dollar homes because they invented the freaking Flowbee. Why dont you tell someone in Argentina or in Peru that capitalism works? Surely they prob will think youre crazy for suggesting communism but they also know that Capilaism isnt without their murderous theives and isnt any better than what you precieve as the "red side". Look Im not saying this or that is the answer but going back to the topic of why this can be overseen is because its just an idea about how people should live and not an idea where people are murdered because of who they are, yes people have been murdered for opposing communist government but can you seriously say that, communism was the reason for that? Or that it was the person in charge(aka. dictator)? The whole purpose of these WP groups is to get rid of everyone else so yeah theres a difference. And I said it can be "overlooked" because its something that is borderline and really doesnt directly threathen people(be realistic now).So therefore the ESC cant go around looking for every group that has some kind of view and needs to know when to stand up and make a big deal about something. I mean should we go after all the Rangers fans cause they aren't Catholic? Even tho they've had trouble in the past in Ireland, its not going to make a difference here. Where as a WP group CAN if it is ignored.
No. That's why I mentioned the cross. In the context of a KKK rally it's a racist symbol. In the context of your usual run of the mill church, it's a religious symbol. If you walked into a church down the street and saw one you wouldn't think "ah yes, racists go to church here". It's the same symbol with different meanings depending on the user of the symbol and that even in the context. YOu could be a klansman wearing a cross on your neck to church. What exactly is the meaning of the symbol then, eh? I just think it's too convenient and simple to say they were polish, they had a scarf with symbol xyz ergo they're a bunch of facists, racist SOBS using racist symbols.
Right but even KKK modify the cross to represent them. But anyways Its like saying KKK people can wear Metro jerseys and YOU could be a KKK dude too if you wear one. When they want to be identified they wear certain symbols and that was one of them. Besides why are you still taking about this when people just told you they flat out admitted they were racist and sang racist songs at the game? Maybe people didnt "jump the gun" in the first place and had an idea of what was going on and just needed confirmation.
This really isn't the place to be debating this I know but name one communist society that didn't turn into a repressive, destructive mess.
If you had read the thread entirely and were not merely a Polish apologist, you would know that the group engaged in "sieg heil" salutes as well as an open discussion about their politics and racist views. I suppose merely wearing racist symbols may not be enough to brand one as a bigot in these jaded days, but surely talking and acting out the views must constitute more then a passing wave from a telescope at this ideology: its clear from the discussion on this thread that you have inentelligibly chosen to participate in that these individuals are steeped in the racist tradition. Expressions of these sorts have no place in the Empire Supporters Club.