The US Attack After Donovan and Dempsey

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by cpwilson80, Dec 30, 2015.

  1. cpwilson80

    cpwilson80 Member+

    Mar 20, 2001
    Boston
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I looked at life after Donovan and Dempsey, starting with an evaluation of the forward pool:

    https://andthenthehex.wordpress.com/2015/12/30/the-us-attack-after-donovan-and-dempsey-part-1/

    The November WCQs were the first time under Klinsmann that we played without Donovan or Dempsey in a competitive game (with qualification still at stake).

    This article helped place the importance of these two players in context. Both immediately played regularly in MLS, made contributions quickly to the national team, and had enough versatility that provided Arena, Bradley, and Klinsmann tactical options (either playing to strengths or covering up a weakness.)

    Here are the club careers of Donovan and Dempsey, compared to others in the pool. The two measures of Involvement and Contribution highlight how the player is used by the team. The definitions are:

    Involvement = League minutes played / (Appearances * 90)
    Contribution = League minutes played / (League games * 90)

    Each circle is a stint with a team. A bigger circle means more appearances, so loans are the smaller cirlces.

    [​IMG]

    Donovan and Dempsey set a standard at the club level that translated to the national team. Wondolowski and Zardes are the only two strikers who have multiple seasons in that upper-right corner of strong playing time. Encouragingly, Wood and Wooten are both there with Union Berlin and Sandhausen this year (and Wooten was last season as well).

    I've left out any wingers or wide attackers at this stage...more coming on that for part two.
     
  2. 6 ft. Leprechaun

    Dec 9, 2003
    Baltimore, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good post. Adjusting to the loss of these two players, who are arguably the two best attacking players the US has produced, will be huge for this team.
     
  3. cpwilson80

    cpwilson80 Member+

    Mar 20, 2001
    Boston
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Definitely, and it might be an instance where we cannot replace them one-for-one with another player.

    I also don't see a guy who could play 3+ positions in attack really well. This means for future tournaments, we'll probably need two players to provide the options that Donovan or Dempsey did by themselves.
     
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  4. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Too bad this doesn't measure ANYTHING having to do with a player's quality, or their performance / production... it's basically graphing two things that are almost identical, both concerning how many minutes a guy plays. Why?

    Why stop with these guys, I'm sure Will Bruin has played more games / season than Bobby Wood, throw him up there!

    Based on this, clearly Wondo is the heir apparent as USMNT forward, whereas Altidore is basically Alan Gordon. :rolleyes:
     
  5. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Donovan and Dempsey brought a combination of qualities that will be difficult to replace. Skill, versatility, productivity, longevity, durability, leadership, commitment. They weren't perfect, but their contributions were enormous and will be very difficult to replace.

    At the same time, we were able to survive the passage from the scene of Reyna and JOB, who left a similarly large void in central midfield.
     
  6. 6 ft. Leprechaun

    Dec 9, 2003
    Baltimore, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yup. Or have the coach adjust the tactics to suit the available personnel.
     
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  7. 6 ft. Leprechaun

    Dec 9, 2003
    Baltimore, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So you're quoting my post why? Your response has more to do with the original post than mine. I was commenting on the premise of the thread, the teams attack post Donovan and Dempsey.
     
  8. 6 ft. Leprechaun

    Dec 9, 2003
    Baltimore, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    While immensely skilled, I wouldn't call the space left by JOB a large void as he only had a little over 30 caps over 8 years. He wasn't available all that often due to his injury history. As for replacing Reyna, Bradley has basically filled that void.
     
  9. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    Mostly, strangely enough Mike might have fit in better then and Claudio now.
     
  10. 6 ft. Leprechaun

    Dec 9, 2003
    Baltimore, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Interesting. How do you figure?
     
  11. cpwilson80

    cpwilson80 Member+

    Mar 20, 2001
    Boston
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd encourage you to read the full article for the additional context. I also get into the merits of playing time as a metric here.

    I'm working on this theory in real-time, but I'm convinced that consistent playing time is a strong indicator of player quality. The amount of player turnover and yearly fluctuation in minutes played surprised me. Simply put, players - particularly forwards - only have so many opportunities to perform before they are replaced. Even Altidore found himself on the bench at times at Toronto.

    Additionally, playing time matters for form. I mention this in the article, but it's not a coincidence that Altidore's best stretch with the national team in 2013 occurred off of the best club year of his career. I'd rather have a US player as a key contributor at a slightly weaker club than a part-time player at a stronger one.

    What's more, the playing time acts as an indicator for the *chance* with a national team. Other factors matter as well: the depth at the position, how the player fits within the construct of a team, how the player adjusts to international play, etc.

    Regarding Wondolowski, he didn't reach that upper-right corner until his 6th season (2010), and has maintained that level of performance with SJ since then. He received his first cap that following winter, and first competitive cap at the Gold Cup that summer. Similarly, Zardes put together two strong club seasons, earned his shot with the national team, and maintained his club performance this season. Bruin earned a shot as well after his 2012 season. To shift this to performance while on the field, there's a short list of US players who have scored 10+ goals in multiple MLS season.

    Finally, though it is not accounted for in the graph, age matters. Clearly any player 30+ will not be the primary focus of this cycle. What the playing time does show, though, is how those players reached their role with the US. It also shows that players moving in that direction - Wood and Wooten - are doing something right.
     
  12. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    Claudio is more of a technical, rhythm possession guy while Mike is more of an up and down, long throughball guy.
     
  13. 6 ft. Leprechaun

    Dec 9, 2003
    Baltimore, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Okay. Reyna was definitely more technically gifted, though I think that Bradley can put his stamp on the game more. During his playing days at Roma, he could do the possession game really well. In fact, one of his games with the USMNT, during that time, he was just a dominating force. I think it might have been the game against Italy.
     
  14. GiallorossiYank

    GiallorossiYank Member+

    Jan 20, 2011
    NJ/Roma/Napoli
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    @cpwilson80 Stating his case this last month for BigSoccer poster of the year. Thanks for all the #s and info.
     
  15. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    Mike is busier, he runs around more, he tries to do things. Mike does the right thing based on what's in front of him. Claudio controlled tempo and traffic. Claudio decided what the right thing would be and made it happen, thinking multiple moves ahead. It's a stylistic difference in part. Sometimes it was frustrating because Claudio often favored keeping possession instead of pushing forward.
     
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