The Spanish Supporters last night

Ignore the problem at hand - indulge in ad hominems.
'Bout right, I suppose.

 

And don't forget the smilies to ensure everyone knows what a comedian he is as well....

Also strange how everyone else on here is wrong about what Aragones said but he has so far to produce a single shred of evidence to support him. What's the odds on him being an ex-pat Ultra?

 

More like ignore what is being written, because your arguments hold no merit at all.

Hey, no worries, I would probably do the same if I was in your position.

Yes, this would probably hold more worth if the "everyone else" actually understood Spanish to know what was said. Oh yes, that calls for a smilie you seem to like so much

 

There goes that denial again - you never did respond to the comment I made regarding the spanish press and multiple spanish posters on these boards confirming that Aragones did use the term "black sh!t".

But then again, none of them know Spanish the way you do do they.....

And still no evidence on your part - I wonder why?

 

the one thing that can be said about this whole episode is that its gotten people all over talking about the very real element of racism that still exists, to some degree, in today's world. all this open debate can only be a positive thing for the fight against this most severe form of stupidity, right? well, thats what i think anyway.

 

Let me guess, you read that the Spanish press said that in an English article....probably the same writers who insist that he said 'black shít'. Compelling 'evidence' I must say.

You do realise I could say the same to you. Oh wait, I forgot who I was talking to, there's a very good chance you do not realise this. Not the brightest bulb and all.

 

Oscar, still you defend the racists and still you do not seem to realize how serious this is. If you are not part of the solution, you must be part of the problem.

Aragones has not condemned it - it's as if he agrees with it. If you don't condemn it then then you must condone it.

Blatter: "I am sad about these new expressions of racism in a stadium that has been a temple of football and I cannot understand that, and I say in the name of Fifa, I apologise."

Blatter said possible sanctions could include a ban for the Spanish football team.

A BAN FOR THE TEAM??!! Now do you begin to realize how serious this is?

Aragones is guilty. Spain is guilty. The only question left is what the punishment shall be. Would a ban be too much or is it the most appropriate action?

 

¿Where am I defending racists? Oh, you're the broken record that keeps on claiming Aragones made racist remarks even though it's simply not the case. I'm surprised you haven't tired yet of showing ignorance over and over again. It's almost commendable.

Please read before commenting on a thread, then you can see how useless your messages like these are, when nobody has said what happened wednesday is all right. Even more troubling is that this has been clearly emphasized only a few posts ago. Tsk tsk.

 

I think that this discussion is becoming nonsense. While some pro English posters seem to be obsessed that the pro Spanish still defend racists, we Spaniards are wandering from the essential point. I copy here a post I have written on a different thread:

 

The Spanish manager made racist remarks this is an undeniable FACT and the French national team have taken the matter up with Fifa.

Captain Patrick Vieira said Spanish society has a real problem with racism.

Vieira told French newspaper Le Monde: "The lack of reaction after what Aragones said shows how uncontroversial racist attitudes have become in Spain.
"Aragones is the Spain coach after all.

"If we players are meant to set an example then the coaches have a particular responsibility.

"They should not be allowed to make such remarks - especially when they are broadcast to young people."

It is not just the English press, but the whole world that is disgusted with the racist Spanish manager and the racist Spanish supporters.

 

Carlos Ferreyra Nunez, co-ordinator of Spain's United Against Racism group, believes the problem is widespread in the country's national game.

"Racism is a cancer that has touched every aspect of football," he claimed.

Racist behaviour could be seen "every week and all over the country", he told BBC Sport.

And Nunez accused domestic managers of fuelling the problem by giving tickets to passionate "ultra right-wing" fans.

He also claimed that even the top black players in the Spanish top-flight are exposed to racism on a regular basis, even if they are reluctant to talk about it.

Spain coach Luis Aragonés has been asked by a government anti-violence body to explain remarks he made about Britain's colonial past on the eve of last Wednesday's friendly between Spain and England, according to Spanish media reports.

On Tuesday, Aragonés will be called before the Comisión Nacional Antiviolencia (National Antiviolence Committee), a body made up of officials from Spain's interior ministry and the sports ministry.

The commission, who have draconian powers, have acted because the Spanish Football Federation (RFEF) are effectively leaderless due to presidential elections. Aragonés reacted angrily to questioning by the British media in relation to racist language he had used on an earlier occasion about Arsenal striker Thierry Henry.

Aragonés told the reporters: 'I know who is racist. I remember the colonies. There are people who ran after them like wolves after prey.'

In Wednesday's match, England's black players Ashley Cole and Shaun Wright-Phillips were subjected to constant racial abuse by many of the Spanish fans.

After the match the racist Aragonés refused to condemn the racist chanting.

It is understood the commission will also examine the behaviour of the racist Spanish supporters.

 

That is Ok but Vieira has never played in Spain.

 

I think there were instances of abuse from Valencia fans when Arsenal played there in the Champions League.

 

Correct - the Liverpool players received similar levels of abuse when they played there as well

 

You are looking for abuses everywhere in Spain... I am sure that you will find. But Spain is not suddenly the Kingdom of Racism. I think that the aim of some English here is banning Spain and it seems that everything will work in order to get a ban for Spain. And when someone criticizes them and their press, they reply saying that we are defending the racists. They don't really care about possible solutions to eradicate racism of the stadiums, they are obssessed in getting a ban and someone even compared Heysel tragedy and deaths with the monkey chants to justify the ban. It was not a pro Spanish poster who refered Heysel tragedy, that is the saddest thing.

 

The following does not mean that England is a racist country, but that there are idiots everywhere. This shows that the problem of racism is not a competition as some English here want to show, but an ubiquitous problem:


"DWIGHT YORKE suffered sickening racist abuse at his former club Blackburn yesterday.

The furious Birmingham striker confronted Rovers fans who made monkey chants at him as he warmed up and a steward had to intervene.

After the universal condemnation of thug Spanish fans who abused black England players last week, racism at a Premiership ground is the last thing our game needs."


In ´The Sun´ (not my favourite paper, but...). And this is news from today, I am not searching in the past.

 

"Aragones’ attack was not the first time Henry has suffered racial abuse.

Arsenal’s Champions League clash against PSV Eindhoven on Wednesday will revive painful memories of the taunts he suffered in the Phillips Stadium two years ago.

And only last month he was subjected to monkey chants from Panathinaikos fans in Athens."

The Sun, 11/22/2004

 

And the record keeps on spinning and spinning.

 

And your denials become more and more pathetic.

 

No no little bucky, denial would be thinking you know what was said when you don't understand a certain language at all, but read something in an English article and then claiming it was the holy truth.

Next.

 

Ah - your tired old "you don't understand the language" excuse.

If that was the case then can you explain why the French FA have reported Aragones comments to FIFA to be dealt with? Of course, they would have zero access to anyone who could speak or understand Spanish would they?

And still you provide not one iota of evidence to back up your absurd claim - a claim that fellow Spanish speakers, press and just about anything with an IQ in double digits or above disagrees with.

But of course, you're right and the rest of the world is wrong.

As I said - pathetic

 

Sorry but I have lost myself to understand the last part of this discussion. I can´t agree with you, Oscar, nor with you, Prawn. And I don´t really think that you are still discussing about football or racism

 

We're discussing whether Aragones made the original comments about Henry being a "black sh!t" - so yes, we are still talking about racism and football

 

You mean the same French who also thought Aragones first said 'nígger'?
Yes, they have shown to understand Spanish. They sure did. Oops.

Make-you-go-shhh-LINK

Show me where exactly Aragones called Henry a 'black shít'.

 

Hmm - so when he is quoted as saying "negro de ************" there are two possible translations;

1) Black sh!t
2) Black man made out of trash

Can you explain how either of the insults like these which are prefaced by a description of the colour of the persons skin are not racist?

You see - the posters on these Spanish boards felt that was a racist and unacceptable comment. The Spanish people I work with felt that was a racist and unacceptable comment. The French FA still feel that is a racist and unacceptable comment (despite their initial confusion over the translation). FIFA feels that is a racist and unacceptable comment. Spanish journalists feel that is a racist and unacceptble comment.

But you don't - so you must be right and everyone else wrong.

You do realise that the longer you witter on about denying the racist nature of these comments then the more and more it appears that you condone them. Is that what you are looking for?