really? in Illinois Bush's vote came from the educated and affluent collar counties.. where most of the electorate has a collge degree higher. kerry on the other hand pulled big from -yes-educated upper class people on the north shore and in the city-but overwhelmingly he drew support from the south side, south suburbs, the west side, and old crumbling inner suburbs.He also drew heavily in down state places like decatur, Moline,and East St Louis, (places most college grads flee at first chance). in truth both parties LIKELY draw about equally in education level.The GOP gets alot of bible thumpers who may have gone to a less then legitimate bible college.. while the Dems get a heck of alot of HS dropouts from the the big cities and rust belt.
that seems to be the stereotype of liberals... youre either pathetic or brilliant.I dont know if I buy that ,they likely just knew which ones to ask .I still say both parties draw about the same spectrum of education level.though i would wager Liberals DO draw more PHD's .
Mathews was interviewing the Republican governor of Colorado last night. So Mathews asks him the usual Blue State vs. Red State question and what sets them apart. The gov. talked about "open spaces, the love for the environment out West" ok, so far so good. and then he said something that only a cloistered Republican politician could - "we don't have all of the same problems that they do back East. uhhh....the social problems." WTF - is Denver a quiet, crime-free suburb now? Governors now believe this red state/blue state stuff? Shouldn't the leader of a state be above such uninformed rhetoric?
Governor Owens (or Governor Highway as we call him in Colorado) is an absolute eunich. He is first and foremost an imbecile. He used to be a GOP rising star til his wife kicked him out of the suburban bungalow for dipping his pen in the company ink. The only argument is whether he was sleeping about with a girl or a boy. Then, while Governor highway lobbied hard against it, Denver passed a tax yesterday to fund light rail throughout the city, which is going to impair his love of highway building. He is a hoot, really.
Sorry, but it is this elitist attitude that will condemn Democrats to an "also ran" role until they get over it. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they are stupid. This is condescending and will never win any votes.
Dishonest people tend to imagine other people as dishonest as they are and therefore tend to be suspicious. Perhaps the same applies to racists.
I'm not sure if you're calling me racist by saying that I was assuming you were racist, when you said "the least educated support the democrats", in my post. My post was supposed to be funny. It was also an analysis of your stat; African Americans support democrats yet they do not have, especially in the past, the same educational opportunities as Whites. My post also pointed out that the most educated tend to be liberal.
"Down there?" I grew up in New Orleans and I have to tell that in the last 10 or 14 years I've known more overtly racist people from Illinois than I have from the south.
OK, but with all due respect to our neighbors to the southwest, the Dems shouldn't give a crap about Georgia. Not right now. After '92 and '96, the GOPs didn't worry about California and Connecticut and Maryland. They worried about Missouri and Ohio and Minnesota and Florida. If the Southern states were just randomly scattered, fundy-cum-racist strongholds, even pundits would be smart enough to realize Georgia and Alabama aren't important. It's Florida and Virginia, now. And Arkansas. Maybe North Carolina, esp. by 2012. F' the rest of the South as potential members of a winning Democratic coalition.
I'd be interested in comparing the education levels in states that went to Bush to to those that when to Kerry.
youre right on the mark with that.I noticed the numbers after I had posted on it.pretty close to what i was aying.Both parties are about the same with Democrats drawing a higher percentage of PHDs
I know that Bush states have higher abortion and divorce rates. Now, before y'all talk about hypocrisy, it's possible that the Bush states are more concerned with moral decay because they have more moral decay in their midst.
Uh, Tennessee? Phil Bredesen is the Democratic governor (he was mayor of Nashville back when I was there), and he's done a fantastic job.
Actually, no I didn't. But I do know that the founders also went out of their way to ensure that there would be no official religion in the United States of America because they were able to look at the horrible things that had been wrought by countries in which church and state were not seperated. Hell, all they had to do was look at one country, England, from the time of Henry VIII to their present day. Reformation, counter-reformation, massacres of Catholics, massacres of Protestants, etc etc. We DON'T need that sort of crap here, and so far we never have. I hope we never do.
Well,as Jefferson wrote the document on which we base our precious freedom, and many of the below are members of the Constitutional Convention as well as some of the most key figures of that time, I'll let you decide: George Washington "The United States is in no manner founded on Christian principle." - Treaty of Tripoli John Adams "As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion ...." - Article 11, Treaty of Tripoli "As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that has ever existed?" - Letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816 "I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved--the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!" - Letter to Thomas Jefferson Benjamin Franklin "The way to see by Faith, is to shut the eye of Reason." - Poor Richard, 1758 "Lighthouses are more helpful than churches." - Poor Richard, 1758 "He [the Rev. Mr. Whitefield] used, indeed, sometimes to pray for my conversion, but never had the satisfaction of believing that his prayers were heard." - Autobiography... (Although, to be fair, Franklin was considered a "rational Christian" who was raised Presbyterian and who hung on to many of the basic tenets of that religion, but often questioned it and always believed in tolerance.) Thomas Jefferson "I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth." - Six Historic Americans James Madison "Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." - James Madison, "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785 Thomas Paine "Of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is none more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory in itself, than this thing called Christianity. Too absurd for belief, too impossible to convince, and too inconsistent for practice, it renders the heart torpid, or produces only atheists and fanatics. As an engine of power it serves the purpose of despotism; and as a means of wealth, the avarice of priests; but so far as respects the good of man in general, it leads to nothing here or hereafter." - Age of Reason Ethan Allen "I have generally been denominated a Deist, the reality of which I never disputed, being conscious I am no Christian, except mere infant baptism makes me one; and as to being a Deist, I know not strictly speaking, whether I am one or not." - preface, Reason the Only Oracle of Man Ethan Allen is also said to have stopped his own wedding until the judge agreed that "agreeing to the Laws of God" did not necessarily mean the God of the Bible, but could also mean the God of Reason. ================== Yes, many were Christians, but many (including some of the most influential, like our first four presidents) clearly were not. Many of them believed in a rational god who created the universe and left it to work and for man to figure out. And even many of the Christians thought it important to challenge their beliefs and the Bible with reason.
Not in every case, but a vote for GWB is a sign of being stupid. What has he ever done that worked? School, TANG, the oil biz, tax cuts, Iraq, etc. etc. He is a bumbling fool, and to support him as the leader of the free world is just simply stupid. Who cares about your f'ing votes. If you have to win them by invading countries based on contrived stories, by pretending ruinous tax cuts for the rich are populist moves, pretending that "W" is a cowboy from Texas, that Jesus is speaking to him, that Ken Lay making energy policy is a good idea then we don't want your stinking vote. GWB's ridiculous joke of a first term is over. Now Y'all can't blame every bumble on a bj. Go ahead, you got the White House and congress. Do something right. We'll be waiting.
I grew up in the east coast and from my experience people in the northeast can be just as stubborn when it comes to voting. The south changing from a Democratic stronghold to a Republican one was primarily caused by passage of the Civil Rights legislation. Roe v. Wade did not cause the south to change. It did, however, make winning northeastern states with large Catholic populations more difficult to win. For example, Pennslyvania should go solidly to the Democrats. Due to the abortion issue, Democrats have to spend time and money ensuring these remain in their camp. The Republicans don't have the same problem with southern states. If Democrats want a chance, they need to woo these voters back. First off, they should stop being so hostile to pro-life democrats. Democrats should try a big tent approach.
You're partly right on the mark, and partly completely wrong. In general, the Dems do need a bigger tent. How many of our national leaders are pro-life? How many are beloved by the NRA? Etc. OTOH, the problem isn't "the Dems." The problem is groups like NARAL get involved in Democratic primaries and make it practically impossible for a pro-life Dem to get nominated. And if you don't get nominated, you can't win.
Frankly I wish that America split into two parts. I really do. I would never want to live in an America that embraces ignorance, arrogance, hate, deceit, and fear -- terrible fear. The root of Conservatism is fear. Bush is everything that I try not to be as a human being. His arrogance and ignorance know no bounds. He has ruined this country, made us a laughing stock of the world, and made me embarrassed to be an American. Our country has regressed back to the 50s on social issues. Bush has the worst environmental record of any President this century, and I don't see how you can support him. Why not vote for the Green party if you are so concerned about the environment? Either your "concern" for the environment is disingenuous, or your actions do not logically flow from your thoughts. Which is it? How can you vote for a man that consistently lies, shows no deep analysis of issues, shows very little cognitive ability, displays incredible ignorance about the world, thinks he talks to God and he is chosen to lead this nation. It's all absurd. I realize you and others like you are not going to change. I'm done with Bush supporters. I no longer care what you have to say. I will no longer engage you in conversation. I will avoid you at all costs. A line has been drawn in the sand and I will no longer cross it. Please go live in some other country. You sicken me. I will do whatever it takes now to win back my country. I will do whatever it takes to oppose your sick and misguided policies. I will not rest until you are beaten down and crushed.