So who will make it to Africa ?. An interesting "fact" (which I've taken off the top of my head) is that both Sweden and Portugal has made it to 5 consecutive play-offs (EC/WC) and now they end up in the same group. Who will be the group-winner and the runner-up ?. The obvious choice would be Portugal but I'm not so sure, although it's hard to go against them based on their record. My confidence in Sweden is at an all-time low after the EC. I have never before asked for Lagerbäck being fired because of his outstanding record but now...it is seriously time to move on. I believe Sweden has more quality than Denmark so that's a plus, then we have Lagerbäck with his tactics that are not suited for a team that are strong on the offense and weak defensively so that's a minus. I'll make a default predicition and say 1. Portugal 2. Sweden Denmark is surely in the running though. If they're ever to put Sweden behind them and advance, the time is now.
...but and finally Nothing but the usual Swedish arrogance against it's Scandinavian neighbours, slightly hidden in the text, but so that it still dont leave any doubt about the : "We are at an all-time low, but of course as always still better than the rest of Scandinavia" attitude... Since you seem to argue from a "who has had the best results at EC/WCs in the past" point of view, then I just wonder how many WC or Euro Championships Sweden and Portugal actually has won in the past ?.. Sweden do not have a better squad than England, just because England did not qualify for the Euro-08.... and so it is also the case with Denmark.. Sweden did not manage to beat Denmark (on the pitch) in the last qualifiers and you better remember that if you now think your team now is at an all-time low...Fact is that while this Danish NT has been growing better, then Sweden has just been growing older and now finally have to make quite some changes to the team, if you can get the older "over-the-hill" players to quit... .
Now... as for Denmark, then yes... We do not have a player like Zlatan Ibrahimović, but Just as Portugal then the Danish NT no doubt have more depth to the squad than Sweden... That is, if the central defenders do not keep getting long-term injured all the time.... In the last (1-1) away friendly against the Netherlands just before the Euro-08, the Danish NT was down to 7th pick in central defense and this has been the great problem for Denmark the past several years now... Martin Laursen was according to the official Actim index the best Scandinavian player in the EPL last season and also made it to Sky Sports EPL 'Team of the Season', so with him and Daniel Agger both being fit for fight, Denmark has an absolute top class central defense by English PL standard. The problem is that they always seem to be injured when Denmark is playing important qualifiers... and so it has also been the case with 3rd and 4th pick Per Krøldrup (Fiorentina ) and Michael Gravgaard (Nantes) plus several of the other Danish central defenders. Defensive midfielder Christian Poulsen now seem to be moving from Sevilla to the serie A and Juventus... He has done great at club level in Spain, but for the Danish NT he was quite a disappointment in the Euro-08 qualifiers, and played a major part in Denmark not qualifying... You could say that it is the other way around for young Nicklas Bendtner who has had some trouble at Arsenal, but simply been absolute top class for Denmark of lately. He has so far scored 7 goals in 18 games for Denmark and also made several assists.... at the age of 31 Jon Dahl Tomasson has so far made 51 goals in 99 games for Denmark and he now just need two more goals to become the absolute all-time topscorer for the Danish NT : http://www.dbu.dk/page.aspx?id=314 If we were to compare this record with some of the top Swedish players, then Henrik Larsson has managed to score 36 goals in 98 games and Zlatan Ibrahimovic 20 goals in 53 games for Sweden so far, so ther is no way around that Jon Dahl Tomasson has done exceptionally well for Denmark, also at the big finals where he has managed to finish among the top 4 goalscorers at both the WC-02 and Euro-04 finals in the past. .
Hahaha, wow I never knew you felt this way Ceres, that was uplifting. Umm, but it's not smug to say that we're the best team in Scandinavia is it ??, because we are, I'm wrong ?. I've time after time seen people from all over the globe name Sweden as a power in Europe, not seen the same people name Denmark even once actually. This was well before people said "Spain and Sweden to qualify for the Euro 2008". This was for the WC 2006 and of course post WC the candidates were as you might've suspected, Spain and Sweden. Also please, do not shame yourself and your country by bringing up the game in Copenhagen. That's just my friendly advice. It only reflects bad on your own country and since it also puts a bad light on the beautiful game, I'd rather not think of the scandal the danes created.
As a Denmark fan, I'll freely admit that our NT sucks right about now. When I was watching Sweden get outplayed by Russia in the EC (after a pretty mediocre overall performance, no offense), all I could think about was that 1) we couldn't beat them in two head-to-head games, and 2) we only finished fourth in that same group, so we would have been beaten even worse. That being said, over the next two years Denmark may overtake Sweden, and may also make it to the WC at their expense. With younger players like Bendtner and Agger and the more established Laursen and Christian Poulsen, the team has a backbone with international class, and there are several players who have been slowly integrated into the squad over the past 6 months. However, the back positions remain a problem, and it doesn't look like we have enough squad depth (we're essentially one injury away from being mediocre) to carry us through the whole qualifying season. Sweden is in a different position -- Lagerback has gone on for a long time with the same trusty players, and is now in a position of having to replace several positions (Allback, Henke, Ljungberg, Svensson, Hansson) all at once. I think he has the players to rebuild the side, but not in the conservative mould that he favors. As it stands, I agree with lots of what BB said -- I currently give the advantage to Sweden, because Denmark has been in a steady decline since 2004. But if the Danish NT gets their act together and starts performing better, they may end up going to South Africa along with Portugal.
Denmark has always been underated, despite the fact that we won the Euro-92... ppl then often just say that is was luck and that this is the only result Denmark has ever produced, just like Greece..., which is quite insulting, since Denmark, unlike Greece (or Sweden, Portugal, England for that matter) has actually played at all the Euro finals from 1984 to 2004 and also been in the Semi-finals i 1964 and 1984, not to forget the quarter-finals in 2004. As for the WC, then it's true that Denmark has not managed to qualify all that many times (perhaps because we often do well at the Euros and then miss the next tournament ), but when we have qualified for the WC we have always got passed the group stage... In 1986 we lost to (the Danish all-time nightmare opponent) Spain in the Round of 16, in 1998 we reached the quarter-finals, but then lost 2-3 to Brazil and in 2002 we send home France in the group stage, but lost to England in the Round of 16. Still, 1 Championship, 2 Semi-finals, 2 quarter-finals and some Round of 16 is not bad at all, but ppl only seem to remember the Euro-92 and forget about the rest, while they on the other hand tend to remember old Swedish results from the 30's and 50's, despite the fact that Sweden has never actually won a Championship.. .
Hounestly i think Both Denmark and Sweden could do well in the WC- But i doubt both will make it. But that has more to do with the limited number of spots that UEFA gets then the quality of the 2 teams.
Fact is that important Sweden v Denmark games always are more or less 50/50... This was very much the case in the last Euro-08 qualifiers and at the Euro-04 they also ended up holding each other to a (2-2) draw, though the Italians feel the result was rigged and that they should have progressed instead of Sweden, the match itself showed otherwise... .
First, who could take offense to you saying that Sweden had a mediocre performance in the EC. I've been on the Lagerbäck bandwagon prior to the EC 2008 but that was it. The Swedish team is too damn good to play the defensive style football. I remember talking to a Spanish guy here after the Spain game and he said that at half-time, the Spanish commentators saw Sweden having an edge and being the physically superior team (which were Capdevilas exact words as well), then the team went out to defend a draw, were constantly outplayed and Spain ended up with 3 much deserved points. Hearing Aragones say "It was good for football that we won" was absolutely heartwrenching, because he was right. When the hell did Sweden become Greece. The Euro 08 is exactly why the man that has taken Sweden to 5 consecutive championships has to go. I disagree with you that Denmark could overtake Sweden because of Bendtner and Agger. We have the backbone players, my problem is that Lagerbäck might not play those guys. Guys that could be great prospects for the NT has also never been integrated the same way that you say Danish players have been. I guess somewhere in all this I agree with you but if we're gonna go by player names, I disagree, Sweden pretty much have what Denmark have minus a top class defender like Agger.
I read your post and pretty much agreed with you but when it came down to the ending, I remembered why I never had any respect for you. Ceres, you're just a stupid old fart, no seriously...you are
That's a stretch to put it mildly, the Danish media couldn't believe that the game in Stockholm ended 0-0 because the Danish team was so outplayed. The game in copenhagen was just weird and as I said earlier, a shameful night for the beautiful game.
Funny that you dont mention how the same Danish media could hardly believe how Demark lost the home game, because Sweden was so totally outplayed in that match, or that the same Danish media think Denmark were the better team and should have won the match against Sweden at the Euro-04...But then of course this doesnt fit your picture of Sweden being the superior soccer nation in Scandinavia... .
So where is your Martin Laursen then ?, the player who was among the top 5 best defenders in the EPL last season according to the official Actim index and also made it to Sky Sports EPL 'Team of the Season' ... and where is your Christian Poulsen ? ... Please dont mention Olof Mellberg because he is no Laursen... and Linderoth is not of the same class as Poulsen.. Sweden got a few Star players, but the main problem with the Swedish NT is lack of depth in the squad. This is one of the reasons why Lagerbäck feel the need to stick with the same old players.... .
My point wasn't that Bendtner and Agger were the only reasons Denmark would be better than Sweden. The Danish side has failed in recent years either because of lacking a class defender as well as a class forward to partner Tomasson. A central axis of Agger/Laursen, Poulsen and Bendtner is a good reference point to build up a new team, but that is obviously not enough to solve all our problems. I think the two teams in an ideal lineup average out to be about even. Denmark does not have a Zlatan type or good, offensive-minded players like Elmander or Kallstrom (a shame Lagerback leaves him on the bench), but our central defense of Agger and Laursen are probably better than Sweden's. Other than that, I agree that man-for-man the two sides are very close, although IMO Sweden has a deeper squad. If Denmark happens to qualify at Sweden's expense, it will probably be due to a dose of luck and because the new generation of Swedish players will not suit Lagerback's tired, defensive style.
Denmark was 3-0 down, they grinded themselves back to a 3-3 draw at the later stage of the game. I believe there's probably only 1 person that could summarize this as "Sweden was so totally outplayed" and that 1 person is you Ceres. Your comment is just comical. As a sidenote, the game is called football.
Rubbish, Sweden is vastly superior on the forward side, superior on the midfield and Denmark is superior on the defense. I'm not sure why I keep feeding your trolling ways really. Yes, it is semi-true that Sweden lacks depth. Lagerbäck's decision to stick with the old guns has absolute zero to do with that though.Lagerbäck has stuck to his own gameplan for years now. The fact that he doesn't try out new players is the main thing he has been highly criticized for by Swedish media and supporters. During the EC 08, the European media questioned keeping one of Lyon's star players (Källström) outside the Swedish team . The reason, well I guess it was because he was not part of Lagerbäck's main game plan (Seb Larsson that was voted best player in Birmingham by the fans and picked up most awards didnt get much of a chance either). Wow Laursen was top 5 in EPL , yeah and Zlatan was no.7 in the world in the ballon d'or. Listing individual accomplishments isn't really gonna prove how the Danish team is superior to Sweden. Quite the opposite. As the groups were drawn for the EC draw, you were shooting your mouth off about how poor Zlatan was, larsson was old and Denmark was gonna advance ahead of Sweden and now you're doing the exact same thing all over again. No problem, what else could we expect ey ?
Well even with Bendtner, Agger and extras, Denmark is not better than Sweden. They are not far apart but the whole world hasn't gone crazy when they put Sweden ahead of Denmark when predicting qualifying groups. I think we more or less agree. IMO it's 2 evenly matched teams with an edge to Sweden. I would say that if Denmark qualify at Sweden's expense, they wouldn't need luck. They are good enough. Let's not forget that the teams outside Portugal, Sweden, Denmark aren't rubbish, not all of them that is. None of them are gonna make it to the WC but some can steal points from any of the top 3. In closing, my cracked crystal ball says it might come down to what you mentioned in your last sentence. Lagerbäck's predictable defensive style puts Sweden out of the equation. If that should happen, people should march with torches and pitchforkes to the Swedish football federation, those old farts. The man should've been sacked after the euro.
Pretty much. I also agree with the rest of your post. in our first WC qualifying game we're up against Portugal who will miss Ronaldo -- and an away tie is definitely a possibility. However, Denmark have had a bad habit of dropping unnecessary points to teams like Latvia and Northern Ireland, and those games tend to come back to haunt us in the end. Just out of curiosity, who do you think would be a good replacement?
As I have written, then Sweden and Denmark have been quite on pair, but in the last qualifiers Denmark were highly troubled by injuries in central defense. The reason why the Swedish NT coach dont use Kallström, is quite simple... Kallström usually look like crap when playing for Sweden, not because he is a bad player, but because the Swedish defense and defensive midifeld need the class to support a player like Kallström.... So once again it comes down to lack of depth in their squad... I quite disagree with your point that Sweden got more depth than Denmark ... They got Zlatan and therefore a bit more depth in attack, but in defense and midfield Denmark got more depth than Sweden, which has been my point all along.. If you have been reading my posts, then I have been saying that Denmark do not have a player like Zlatan, but that Sweden lack depth and that a player like Larsson is over the hill... I think the past Swedish performance at the Euro-08 proved my point... Ther are some players (including Larsson) who for sure are over the hill and Sweden also showed that they lack depth in their squad in defense and defensive midfield... .
Sweden got Zlatan, but then we clearly saw at the Euro-08 that he more or less was the only real threat in attack when now both Larsson and Marcus Allbäck are over the hill... Non of the other Swedish forwards are better than Bendtner or Jon Dahl Tomasson at NT level. Tomassons 51 goals in 99 games speaks for itself, since no Swedish NT forward is able to match that goal average, while Bendtner of lately is showing more class for Denmark than Elmander has shown for Sweden... Still, Sweden no doubt got more depth than Denmark in attack, in case of injuries. However, it's funny how you always argue that "Sweden is superior in attack and midfield" and otherwise "pretty much have what Denmark have" , but then when it comes down to naming the Swedish "Martin Laursen" or "Christian Poulsen" you feel the need to bring up Zlatan... I've said many times than Denmark at the moment do not have a forward of the same class as "Zlatan", but since he cant play for Sweden in central defense or defensive midfield, ther is no need to bring him up in a debate about the quality of the rest of the team/squad... Fact is that Sweden do not have a central defender of the same class as Agger and Martin Laursen and Sweden is also far from having a defensive midfielder of the same class as Christian Poulsen... The reason why Kallström is not being used by the Swedish NT coach, is because he very well knows that Sweden lack the needed depth and quality in defense and defensive midfield to change the style of play... We saw at the Euro-08 (and also in the 2nd half of the 3-3 match vs Denmark in qualifiers) that when the pace goes up and the opponent attack Sweden at full speed in open battle, the slow Swedish defense is easily outplayed... So Sweden is forced to take extra care in defense and can not afford being too attacking minded... This is also why Kallström is left out... Because he doesnt fit the present style of play and the coach knows that he does not have the needed depth in the squad to make room in the team for Kallström and play more attacking minded, with more possession... I know that a lot you Swedes do not like to face this fact, but the reality is that you only got half the classy looking players you needed if your team were to play more attacking minded and pull it off... So ther is really no reason to blame the NT coach for doing his job. .
Unlike Spain, then Portugal is not a nightmare opponent for Denmark, so I'm not really all that worried about facing Portugal... I also dont think Sweden got all that much to worry about either, because Portugal is a rather slow paced, inefficient shortpassing team and not the kind of quick paced team that would make Sweden look bad in defense... The Danish NT coach like his team to keep possession and be attacking minded, this does open up for losing unnecessary points against smaller and very defensive minded teams (just ask Portugal or Spain who usually also get in all sorts of trouble in games like that)... Denmark has lacked a real World class forward and then we of course also need our classy central defenders to be fit if we are to be as attacking minded as the NT coach want us to be. This has unfortunately been the main problem for Denmark the past several years now... However, Bendtner has been looking real good of lately, so I think the problem in attack is solved if both Tomasson and Bendtner manage to stay fit, but we seriously lack some depth in case of injuries.. Except for left back position, I see no problems with the rest of the defense or in midfield... We do have the needed depth to play the kind of football Olsen want us to play.. .
I fed you the first time but cross my heart and the other one on the bible, this time I just scrolled through your post. I can't read all that when I know 90% of it is crap.
Mmm, that's a good question. We would need a coach that is in with the times and understand that Sweden's weak point has gotten their strong point and vice versa. The most famous Swedish coach, SGE would not bring the gameplan Sweden needs. My pick would be Roland Andersson. He has been there when he was active, know what it takes to win and has also performed well as a coach.
Bump. Looks like Sweden will probably end up fighting Hungary for second place, because this Denmark side looks like a women's team.
...or perhaps it is Sweden and Denmark who are going to fight for 3rd and 4th place, looking at how Danish key players like Christian Poulsen, Martin Laursen and Rommedahl and are looking like amateurs when they play for the NT and Sweden, not surprisingly, are not able to play their new system and get the needed results... .