Once again, if your striker is doing well running down balls, connecting play, hustling his ass off, and not scoring (and especially doing everything BUT scoring) maybe it's time to stop playing him at striker. His miss rate is, as others have cited, Jozy-at-Sunderland-levels (JSLs).
It’s unfortunate when I don’t even feel capable of arguing this. he can turn it around but that’s the vibe for sure right now.
Poor Josh. That first chance would have done his confidence and Norwich wonders had he put it away. Unfortunately we've seen this movie before as a few people have mentioned above. I'm not ready to stamp Jozy 2.0 on the read headed wonder just yet but it's not lookin' good so far.
I’m not saying he couldn’t turn it around, but the evidence is piling up. He does so many other things well, against top competition, that if I was a coach I’d be moving him to a midfield position and getting him in front of the goal only on corners or direct kicks in the final third. That goes for club or country. I think he could be an effective #8, box to box.
I don't know why you guys think he could play as any kind of CM at the EPL or Bundesliga level, just because he works really hard, and he's generally competent technically as a high level football player. Sargent would be embarrassed if you dropped him in the center of a two-man or three-man midfield tomorrow at the level we're talking about. I mean actually professionally embarrassed, not at internet meme level like after this weekend's missed chances. It's not a given or even likely that Sargent would drastically improve over a season or two of sunk costs of trying to convert to a CM. For the record, I'm not a Sargent hater or anything like that, God forbid that one dude blows up my mentions. I'd guess I'm more optimistic about his future career than most here have shown, but his best work in the pro game will undoubtedly be as a forward.
Disagree with the conclusions stated here, and it appears our evaluations of the same evidence (watching him play a lot) differ. It is probably moot, because I don’t think he’s open to it.
No confidence in his shot at all.He's afraid of he blasts it goes in the stands,so just guides it at the net.
Even if his skill set matched up with a center midfielder's (they don't, imo, due to lateral quickness and ability in tight spaces not being good enough), he would be completely lost in midfield. That transition is nowhere near as simple as people are making it sound. It's one thing to move from a forward to a wing or from winger to wing back, but moving to central midfield from striker is basically unheard of. Strikers who can't score generally don't change positions, they move to lower levels.
That is straight up confidence stuff. Afraid to make a mistake means you regularly make mistakes when you are presented with opportunities. Not suggesting he necessarily should have been called up, but not being called up probably did not help his confidence at this time.
You are missing a big point here. He has done a good/great job according to his coach in battling big, physical defenders and with his hold-up play. That is different than just 'running down balls and hustling' Remember, Norwich has switched to a 4-4-2 (which I recommended after the Watford defensive debacle) and have looked a lot more solid defensively every since. But this means only 2 forwards (not 3). Pukki is obviously point of the 'arrow' as another poster pointed out, but it puts a LOT of pressure on the 2nd forward.....it requires that that 2nd forward (because he is often battling 2 defenders or more) be physically strong and able to handle big Prem defenders (many of which are) with link play and hold up play. He also has to cover A LOT of ground to be effective. Those kind of players don't grow on trees. Especially not at lower table clubs. Given Farke also requires high work rate and pressing from everyone on team for his system to work- it is no wonder that Farke (in his post-game comments) praised Josh's work and seemed pretty satisfied...if not very happy. Yes- it sucks that he has not been more clinical. Yes, if he continues that way for too long, he will dig himself a career hole to climb out of. We all get this! The coach gets it. Even Josh gets it. Either it happens or it doesn't. Let's see. But from Farke's perspective, he'd rather take his chances with a guy like Josh who may respond and find his scoring touch versus playing guys who don't meet Farke's other valuable criteria in what is needed for the other forward position in his 4-4-2 system. So your comments are too early and overdone. It is also amazing how quickly everyone is pulling the Jozy card, when Sargent has played the equivalent of 4 games in the EPL. Should we list all the forwards who weren't scoring after 4 games played (in total minutes) in the EPL? It's a long, long list with quite a few names bigger than Sargent. Some of those 'other' names that haven't scored will rebound and score. Some (or a few) won't. We don't know yet who will, and who won't. You got other cases like Werner that score some, but have had a million chances (should score A TON more) and play on higher-octane teams than Norwich and yet are still struggling after more than a year (Werner looks like he has totally abandoned any shooting technique as well....like Chuck Knoblauch throwing a baseball). Do I think Werner's top 5 league career is over at 25? No, but he probably will need a club switch. Can we at least wait 1/2 a season before we front-run and make Jozy comparisons? Too early now.
Whether it’s fair or not, I believe what we recognize as fans is that it’s been awhile since Josh Sargent has been goal dangerous. So much has gone into his non-goal scoring attributes that you wonder if he’s lost his killer instinct. And every time he does not score it reinforces that belief. Compounding this belief, the fact that he’s jumped from one relegation fodder team to another relegation fodder team. Whereas, it would have probably benefited him to find a league where he could have been the main threat. That said, his situation is still a whole lot better than Ethan Horvath... who seems to have a knack for finding the worst possible club situation of any US player that I can ever recall... which includes Gale Agbossoumonde and Freddy Adu and many others beforehand.
I totally agree with your post. He has worked hard on himself to provide all the 'other' necessary things for him to play the forward position in a top 5 league. Workrate, holdup play, link play, battling other top defenders physically, making the right runs, some creativity off and on the ball. Werder Bremen prolly over-weighted some of those 'workrate' things and maybe Josh took it too much to heart. But those qualities are important as well, but in the end- you have to produce goals and assists. Goal dangerous, as you put it. Now, he needs to focus on the things you mention, which is partly technical adjustments (extra time after practice) and mental (just relaxing and letting his natural instincts takeover) But part of it is getting through the adjustment period going from Germany >> England- which forces a player to play and think faster. It should not be any wonder whatsoever that there is an adjustment period for goal-scorers going from the Bundesliga to the Prem. We saw this (and still seeing this) with Werner and Havetz- 2 of the BL's top rated players. Also Hoppe commented how the play in Spanish league is faster and more one-touch than Germany- so he is going through his own adjustment period there. Josh's goal scoring instincts are not lost forever. Just buried somewhat inside. We see this all the time with strikers. Many/most pull out of it. Some do not. Some make the adjustment to a faster paced league and some do not. Being 21, he has more 'time' than older players making the move. Time will tell if he can make these adjustments. There is nothing majorly wrong with his technical game that says he can't, but proof in pudding. I actually think this is mostly mental at the moment, and that he will overcome sometime this first 1/2 of season. His connection to Pukki is improving and Norwich doesn't have other strikers who can replicate Josh's skill set. A couple goals in the next 2-3 games will calm everyone down, including Josh. He's due for a bit of luck, IMO
Or do extra finishing work after practice. Almost all strikers go off the boil, like baseball players in a batting slump. Good coaches can give strikers extra work in training.
Hey if nothing else Josh is 21 starting in the best league in the world despite being unable to score. The manager is still backing him!
That's fair, and TBH I've skipped most of Sargent's games since Norwich might be this year's Schalke. But he's shown almost nothing since turning pro to suggest he's a good finisher. The spot you describe sounds perfect for him and if it's Pukki at the end of that chance with the open net, that's most likely a goal. For USMNT fans, the ire is that we don't need a 2nd striker. We don't really use one and if we did we have others who can fill in as well. We need a #9, and Sargent's MO has been "a 9" due to youth exploits and not adult. I'd agree that it's too early to proclaim Jozyitis and Jozy also is and always has been and always will be a 9 -- that's his game through and through. It is good to note that Josh can and does play other spots, equal parts a testament to his versatility and to his abject failure to produce goals as a striker.
You made some good point, however "Shown nothing"...without context, this is not accurate and harsh. You have to factor age and the quality of the league into the analysis or it is a meaningless discussion. Go find the number of strikers who started in the Bundesliga, England or Spain (top 3 league) at 19-20-21 years old (2 year period). It is a very small list. Because very few top youth strikers are good enough to start for a top 3 league club. Once you create that list, you won't find many 19-21 year olds who scored more goals than Josh (except for freaks like Haaland). Some...a few...but not many. You can even take the list up to 22 and 23 years old. You still won't find many (although some young striker do make the jump in quality from 22-23). Then, subdivide the list between those young strikers that played on good/great teams and those did not. I think we would all agree you can score more goals and get more chances if you are playing on a better team with better support. You also get to play against all the bad teams to pad your totals. Had Josh stayed in MLS or go to Holland- the likelihood is that he would be sporting gaudy statistics due to the relative quality of those leagues and defenses. After all, Michael Bradley had 17 goals one season at Heerenveen (give or take a goal) You just can't compare 25 year old strikers and 20-21 strikers because it is not a fair comparison. Having those extra years experience can be huge for a striker. One can be critical of Josh, sure. But to do the argument justice- keep it in context of age and league for accuracy of the discussion. And when you do that, the data in Josh's case doesn't look near as bad. Of course, that doesn't absolve Josh from the responsibility of having to pick up the pace on his goal scoring both this season and his overall level in the next 2-3 years from here.
That 18/19/20 year old also got a ton of minutes. Since 2018 per wiki, he's made 97 appearances across u-23 USMNT, USMNT, Bremen, and now Norwich. In those 97 appearances he has 18 goals. That's a tremendous amount of games for a 18-21 year old and a lot of games to show yourself and a lot of chances to prove out as a goal scorer. So far he's shown he can hang at this level, but not necessarily score at it. Maybe he'll score 36 in his next 97. That would be cool.