OK, what do you suggest? how do we understand them? You mean, stop supporting Israel, get out of Iraq, Afghanistan, stop showing silly TV shows and movies which piss off muslims? What do you suggest?
More liberal bashing. As long as you don't conflate Democrats and your definition of liberal. She is an exception. See earlier comments to odessit and cheney.
The Japanese did not surrender after carpet bombings of Tokyo, they only surrendered after we dropped 2 A-bombs. How do you suggest we understand them, for that please refer to my reply to Vizvig, answer those questions
This is correct in theory, of course. In practice, after hundreds of books and articles have been written on the subject of "understanding them", we are no closer to a consensus answer, and definitely no closer to any kind of answer actually helping us "win".
Yeah this isn't an Anti-Muslim thread. I know Muslims and other Middle Easterners who live in the UK and are already boarding themselves up in their flats, ready to endure another round of unjust discrimination. THIS IS FOR THOSE TERRORIST BASTARDS WHO THINK THEY CAN WIN. GENERAL PATTON SAID, "A SOLDIER'S JOB ISN'T TO DIE FOR HIS COUNTRY, A SOLDIER'S JOB IS TO MAKE THE OTHER POOR DUMB BASTARD DIE FOR HIS COUNTRY." I HOPE THE SUICIDE BOMBERS STAY IGNORANT OF THAT FACT!
I'm critisizing what obviously isn't working. I'm not in governement right now and don't see myself ever being there so I can't say what would work and I can't offer anything that would deffinately work, but obviously what we're doing now isn't working because while they aren't attacking us they are getting at the Europeans.
Yep what we have here is your run of the mill liberal. They attack then back out when you throw a simple question their way. Suggestion: Stop criticizing if you yourself couldn't do better. Just a thought.
The British have been through worse than this. Al Qaida doesn't have ******** on the IRA. England will get through this, THEN FIND THOSE BASTARDS AND HOPEFULLY THROW THEM OFF THE CLIFFS OF DOVER!
I'm not gonna pretend to be an expert on the IRA I know nothing about them, but all i've heard concerning them today is that they had a tendency to give warnings before they attacked. I hope they find the terrorists but at the same time you can't find all of them, because there will always be terrorists because there will always be someone who doesn't agree with how someone else lives.
The IRA's cause was semi-decent. Of course there will always be terrorists, but if we stop the people funding them we have a better chance of them not attacking.
And there's no better way to stop the people funding them from bombing them? The terrorists aren't rational we all know that, the governements aren't the most rational people but they're way more rational than terrorists. While i think the UN can be a bit pathetic at times being strictly diplomatic (something that obviously won't work in africa) they can work in the case of the middle east. I think everyone can agree that the people in the middle east funding them need to be stopped but you aren't giving them much reason to by bombing them. You get the UN in there, and you get a bunch of countries in there saying you need stop, you need to change, we aren't asking you to be replicas of us in every aspect but we're telling you to stop funding terrorists. You don't need to bomb people to get them to do what you want. in this case i think there would be enough countries to come to that mutual agreement that Iran's government and whoever else is funding terrorists would feel the pressure, realize they can't fight everyone, and stop funding htme.
A meeting between the U.N.'s Kofi Annan and Al Qaeda's Osama bin Laden to diplomatically end terrorism? C'mon! You believe in Easter Bunny too?
Point is, you get enough countries to put pressure on them to stop funding them and they will. America can't do everything, especially since we aren't too well liked over there for them to do anything we ask
So they weren't completely suicidal. We find out where they're getting their money, and how to stop it. We find out who's sheltering them, and how to stop it. Why is the House of Saud risking our wrath by paying off terrorists? Is it rogue elements of the Saudi government, or is it a way for the royal family to weaken their American overlord? Same questions with Pakistan. Are all of their recruits from Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and other "pro-Western" countries? Are any of their recruits European-born? So far, the answer has been no. If so, it means there really is a direct correlation between democracy and a supply of crazy terrorists, and that democracy is not the same thing as pro-American. We'd be better off with a less pro-American government in Egypt and Arabia, if it meant anti-American elements there were concerned with domestic affairs rather than manipulated as pawns by a dictatorship. And so forth. Why aren't you asking these questions of your elected representative, instead of a soccer yapfest? What kind of answers were you expecting? And how that I've answered your questions, have you changed your mind about anything? Hm?
We know who is sheltering, harboring, training financing terrorists, Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Palestine. So now we know it, how do you stop it, how do we confront these countries?
We could start with a crash course to bring on-line alternative energy sources and leave the Middle East to its own internal rot.
This is why we have to be certain of our enemies, as well as how to confront them. This is too important to screw up, such as assuming Iran and Palestine are involved. I mean, come on, Palestine? That completely surrounded refugee camp with no navy, air force, or oil? They're financing terrorism? You're sure that Abu Abbas is going to overthrow the peace process to that degree? Where did you read that? And why did you leave off Jordan, home of Al-Zarqawi? Why did you leave off Afghanistan? Why did you leave off Indonesia? Why did you instantly dismiss the possibility of home-grown British sympathizers? Have you forgotten Richard Reid? You think you understand, but you don't. You're not certain. Neither am I, but making big-ass assumptions in a battle like this is not simply stupid, but avoidably stupid.
We do have proof that Iran, Syria, Jordan, Pakistan and Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia and Indonesia sponsor and train terrorists. Yes, we do have proof. Say we don't have it yet and say we found out that those nations are providing safe haven for terrorists, what do we do? Bomb them, who, all of them? Explain to me how you would fight this. C'mon, we know where majority of these extremists reside and train, so what can we do? We can't catch them all but we can send better and stronger messages to those places that harbor them
Of course we don't *know*. But suppose that we did, how will that knowledge help us? There are plenty of experts out there tracing and attempting to close the money and communication trails that support terrorist groups. There are also scores and scores of books and articles written about the "terrorist mentality" and the motives of Al Qaeda. Books and books were written about the Saudi, Iranian, and Syrian regimes as well. Many of those books and articles were written by those currently crafting US and UK policies, and many by those who disagree with them. It is a given that we must try to understand what supports and drives our enemy, you won't find anyone who disagrees with that. The question is how to go about using that information -- especially considering its often tenuous and contradictory nature.
Remind me why you're looking for this answer on a soccer yapfest. You're the one who made a big pose about how we didn't need to understand our enemies, we just needed to kill them. That's short-sighted and silly. Dynamo Kiev, I pretty much agree with your post. Except for this: "It is a given that we must try to understand what supports and drives our enemy, you won't find anyone who disagrees with that." "Understand" has become a dirty word in this fight, because of the cliche "to understand is to forgive." Which isn't true - to quote Professor Leon Levitt, sometimes to understand is to hate worse than ever. I suppose I didn't make it sufficiently clear that by "we" I mean, the people running our governments. "We" have to go to our leaders and make sure this war is fought intelligently and decisively. I'm not so crazy as to think by posting on a message board I'm doing anything constructive.