I would normally post this on the Madrid board as I feel a lot of us visit the Spain board less often than the Madrid or Barca boards. But this is the biggest game in the world so it maybe a good idea to have the thread here and link it from the club boards. It's been many years since I have felt so little confidence heading into this match. It's almost as though I'm thankful that it's away and not at home, so we have nothing to lose at all... 3 points dropped at Camp Nou is not the end of the world. I saw both teams play this weekend and mid-week and while Madrid seem to be getting better every game, we are not close to being in the same league. The big difference is the speed at which Barcelona is playing. When they have the ball, they always seem to have 2-3 options rushing at speed into the area for Xavi or Deco to ping the ball to. And the 3 players rushing into the box (say Eto'o, Ronaldinho and Guily) do so intelligently enough to stretch the defence and create openings. When they lose possession, the forwards always rush the opponent's defence in an attempt to steal the ball (something only Owen does consistently for us) while in midfield Marquez, Xavi and even Deco work tirelessly to win the ball back. Even in defence, they look solid and unlike us, the hero is not the goalie, but a central defender, which is always a good sign because it means that with Puyol spectacular, they need not fear that one off-day by valdes will lead to a massacre. And while Oleguer is not the fastest, he has good positional sense and anticipation, at least more so than Pavon and samuel (so far this season). With us on the other hand, we seem to wait... wait... wait.... in defence or attack. You don't see us flying into tackles in midfield or trying to rob the defence. Instead we wait for the game to come to our third before a tackle is made or we hope that someone anticipates a pass in the meanwhile. And the moment the game is played in the defensive third, the opponent will always have chances and you will need casillas. The best example of the difference between the two teams in this aspect is comparing Deco's contributions with Zidane. Yes Zidane is a genius, Deco is not, he's just excellent. But Deco is inarguably more effective on current form. He releases the ball quickly, rarely gets caught is possession, rarely sends a wrong pass, and works hard supporting Xavi and Marquez in defensive duties. But I am willing to sacrifice a pirouette or two, to sacrifice the one or two moments of inimitable magic that will win us a match or two this season, for that degree of consistent effectiveness match in, match out. Even while attacking, we seem to be better at keeping possession with every match but are terrible in making the possession effective. No point having even 90% possession if it does not culminate in an attacking thrust, in potency where it matters. Too many times I've seen the ball played between our players in the middle of the park but the moment we try and put it in the opponents box, we end up losing possession. And it's not just because of packed defences, it stems from an inability to release the ball on time and to spot early runs, and it stems from the inexplicable absence of concurrent runs by 2-3 players into the box. In Owen and Ronaldo we have two of the world's fastest players and in raul, we have one the most intelligent box-players of our generation. But time after time, a ball is sent to the box and we have 1 player attacking it and no one within 15 metres, not 1 other player inside the box to capitalise. What I like about when Owen plays is that it puts opponents of gear, he makes these intelligent bending runs that confuse defences... "do we follow him, do we mark Ronaldo, what if he makes a run at the same time in another direction, will it create a space for raul to poach?". But most times we are just static and all it takes is a man-marker on Ronaldo and we just don't exert enough pressure in the final third. If we are not able to release the ball quickly, if we are not able to create multiple threats in the Barca box, if we don't use speed and intelligence we will not score more than one goal against Puyol. If we do not put pressure in midfield we will be overrun by Deco, Xavi and Marquez. If that happens, we will be forced to try and stop Guily, Eto'o and Ronaldinho in the defensive third, which is impossible if you're overrun in midfield and the 23 of them keep running at us for 90 minutes (with support from the 3 midfielders). So it really comes down to this. Assuming Raul, Owen and Ronaldo all start (which I assume they will and should), how much of a work-rate can Zidane, Figo, Guti/Beckham and raul display in midfield. How committed will they be in the tackle? How much hunger will they have to win the ball and to keep possession? Whether we lose 4-1 or win 2-1 depends on the answers to those questions. Despite the gloom in this preview, I am hopeful that the players will rise to the challenge though. We are Real Madrid. These are the best players in the world. It's time to wake up the sleeping giant. HALA MADRID!!!!!
Re: El Derby [R] On the speed issue.Camacho according to some reports tried to get them to play the ball quicker especially Zidane but the click did not like the idea.
Re: El Derby [R] Very eloquent post, anirbanblah. I don't know why you couldn't have posted it in the RM forum. I agree with your analysis by the way. Too often RM prefers to let 1-2 players do the attacking & there is not enough off ball movement. On the other hand, the Galacticos do know how to pick it up a notch & even this season, teams have seen that we can come back from 2-0 deficits. I hold the coach, Garcia Remon, as part of our problem. He has shown signs of creativity & toughness, but he needs to go further. When a Galactico is having an off game, he needs to pull them out at the 45-60 minute point, not wait until the 80-88 minute mark. With Solari, Morientes and even Raul Bravo, he can re-energize our attack. No question that Barca is playing in top form, even their bad luck of injuries has not slowed them down. And their coaching is clicking too. Should be a good game.
Re: El Derby [R] I think Sinko is merging this thread with the one on the Spain home page. It's getting confusing because there are posts on that thread that are not appearing here.
Re: El Derby [R] therefore real should play their own game, try to upset barca and slow it down, thers no point in playing to their game, we should upset them, slow passing it around, get the game calmed down in the early stages
Re: El Derby [R] if the 2 threads are going to be separate, can the name of one of them be changed slightly (eg, the one in the real forum could become 'el derby v barca' or 'gran classico' (it is called that right?) )
war of words it seems the 'war of words' has already started: Casillas spaeking to marca:''the Barca today has not won anything, it is exaggerating much'' speaking about the new confident barca after a short run at the start of the season 'Ronaldo has made him a promise . The Brazilian has commented that in the match against Barcelona in the Camp Nou of Nov 20, he will end his drought of goals' both players seem very confident, casillas laughing off claims barca are something special and are the new greats, and ronaldo saying he will score
Re: war of words Hopefully Real can concentrate for Tenerife and Albacete before then; it would be awful to lose the chance to make up more ground on Barca because we lost our composure and dropped points at Albacete the week before. I won't do my full pre-game post yet, but I do think that, while Barca have looked more impressive thus far, Real do seem to be playing more effectively at the moment, and also seem much more focused on getting wins, especially in big games like this one (see Ronaldo and Casillas' quotes above). I think that Ronaldo, even though he hasn't really gotten going yet, will score vs. Barca; he has a knack for scoring in the biggest games, and there aren't many games bigger than this one: vs. Barca, to close the gap at the top of the table, to get him scoring, to silence the critics, etc. Hopefully we don't have any major injuries, and I also am concerned that the team might be in a bit of flux due to Beckham's return next week / the subsequent displacement of Guti or Raul.
more pschological tricks being played, this time by carlos and solari, will really make for a great game as always!
Never really understood why players make comments like these before the match, apart from us having something to write about , the only thing it does is make the other team want to win more. I also seem to remember that Ronaldo and/or Raul made comments about us undoubtly going to the next round of the champion's league before the 2nd leg against Monaco, much good it did us there.
well today solari and carlos added to it, why i dont know. we see it happenening all the time though not just in matches such as this one, the classic eg is between wenger and fergie during the season. i suppose the only positive way to look at it is that our players seem confident enough, which i wouldnt have said at the beginnning of the season, and maybe the are trying to show barca they are that confident, pysching them out?? we'll see! it is also worrying how our players seem so focused on the game v barca when we still have albcete to play before it, lets hope we dont lose concentration for albacete first!
Well it's a big game, and big games are typically the games where Ronaldo plays best. Look at Brazil vs Argentina in June, or his hattrick in the CL final a couple years ago, or all of WC'02. I wouldn't be surprised if he scored a couple goals against Barcelona on the 20th.
Barcelona is one of the best teams in Europe right now. They're hitting on all cylinders and looking like a Champions League semifinal team. A draw would still be a major victory.
Mardid will not be getting a draw.... Points in the Nou Camp will be impossible.. the problem with this Madrid team is the same for the past few years but now the "galaticos" are old as hell. They have worked with the mentality that "offense wins games by outscoring what our defense lets in". I have always felt the teams core for attacking is Zidane and Figo, they used to dictate how the team did at the end of the game. Zizou is off form this year and Figo, well he lost a step a few years back but is still somewhat dangerous..... The problem will be BECKHAM, there are too many people high up who want him to play in games and he is virtually ineffective now since Zizou and Figo are shadows of what they once were....those two are what make Beckham look good. Sadly, Madrid has stooped so low in there goal production, a second rate englishman is now picking up the load for Ronald-gordo and Raul. The coach is too retarded to see Morientes' potential....The politics and the business behind Real will be there downfall this year.... Sad to see, but atleast they will be worth 6 points to Barca in La Liga this year!!!!
but their shadows are somewhat better than most on the planet Zizou has been there done it all, scored goals in major finals, and its true, he will never play consistently like he has done in the past, that would be impossible. however i still believe he will pull out some of the 'vintage' zizou in big games to come, and there is none bigger than this one, this is where we need our biggest players to step-up, and there are NONE bigger than Zizou, he ows us a performance and it will come!
Such a thing from a REAL MADRID fan is hilarious. A draw is not a victory. For Madrid, a draw is a loss.
why don't you worry about your flattering Arsenal? Chelsea is running away with the league!luck was on your side against Spurs yesterday, at least a draw would have been a fair outcome...let us worry about our team please.......
They used to be 5 points ahead of Chelsea, who have gained/surpassed 7 points on Arsenal in the last couple of playing weeks.... wouldn't call that strolling around.