The next step in tolerance and inclusion - Christmas

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Daksims, Dec 4, 2004.

  1. Daksims

    Daksims New Member

    Jun 27, 2001
    Colorado
    Merry Christmas signs banned from "holiday" parade in the name of inclusion. Denver Mayor wants sign on Capital to read Happy Holidays and not Merry Christmas. Church group not allowed to sing carols during the parade. Macy's and Bloomingdale's ban "Merry Christmas." Target bans bellringing Santa Clauses.

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,140401,00.html

    http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41724

    http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41700

    http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41624
     
  2. speedcake

    speedcake Member

    Dec 2, 1999
    Tampa
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gotta admit, something smells.
     
  3. sch2383

    sch2383 New Member

    Feb 14, 2003
    Northern Virginia
    Because Christmas is the most important holiday in the Christian faith. Its a secular holiday now, deal with it.
     
  4. Daksims

    Daksims New Member

    Jun 27, 2001
    Colorado
    Right. Christmas is a secular holyday. :rolleyes:
     
  5. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What's the theological significance of Rudolf's nose being red?
     
  6. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    Other American holydays:

    Martin Luther King Jr's Birthday
    President's Day
    Memorial Day
    Independence Day
    Labor Day
    Columbus Day
    Veterans Day
    Thanksgiving
    New Year's Day

    I hope you celebrate Martin Luther King's holy day, especially considering he represented America's two most persecuted minorities, blacks and Christians.



    [​IMG]
     
  7. obie

    obie New Member

    Nov 18, 1998
    NY, NY
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1. Christmas is not the most important holy day in the Christian faith; Easter is.

    2. I am skeptical of any World Net Daily "news articles".

    3. Any sign on a City Hall building that simply says "Merry Christmas" and has no other mention of religious symbols should be changed to "Happy Holidays" or something similar. Hanukkah does start in three days, you know.
     
  8. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    why?

    you can argue that it ought to have similar greetings for other religion's festivals, but that's no reason to say there should be specific greeting displayed for this one.

    There are similar stories in the UK, most of which eventually turn out to either be complete fabrication, or are just suggestions put forward by well-meaning but utterly misguided council members - usually a suggestion that 'minorities' will be offended by christmas/easter/English flags etc despite no person from any minority ever making the claim that they are offended by a christmas tree or whatever.

    The strange thing is that so much of christmas has absolutely nothing to do with religion, it's a miracle that christians aren't offended by it.
     
  9. Shurik

    Shurik New Member

    Nov 2, 1999
    Baltimore, MD
    Where does the Bible mention December 25?
    I thought it was common knowledge the original rationale behind this holiday had nothing to do with Yeshua of Nazareth's embarassing, out-of-wedlock birth.
     
  10. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think this rocks. Christmas sucks and I'm sick of it. I never got to have a Christmas tree. I'm sick of Christmas cheer being shoved in my face. It's not my holiday! Do whatever you want in the privacy of your own home, but let's get it out of the public spaces. P.S., I'm only half-kidding. What's so wrong with "happy holidays?" It's inclusive.
     
  11. Barbara

    Barbara BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 29, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    For the same reason that you're not supposed to put nativity scenes on the lawn of City Hall.
     
  12. tcmahoney

    tcmahoney New Member

    Feb 14, 1999
    Metronatural
    I'm skeptical of Fox News and especially World Net Daily, but never mind. Let's say, just for reindeer poop and giggles that these articles are 100 percent true.

    My response is: So what?

    Look, I've read plenty of articles and letters to the editor from Christians wringing their hands over Jesus Christ being forgotten as the reason for Christmas.

    Guess what? Folks are listening to you. So they're letting Christians have Jesus Christ. To be crass, the stores have stuff to sell, and that's their business. They're not in the business of proselytizing. That's what the churches are supposed to do. In the meantime, the store will be happy to sell you the Charlie Brown Christmas CD, or the Seinfeld CD with the Festivus episode. Your choice.

    Personally, I'm skeptical of any god that's so small as to need propping up from government and the local Chamber of Commerce, and that goes for Allah as well as Jesus Christ's Father.

    That having been said, I can understand the Denver mayor's position for Happy Holidays over Merry Christmas from a First Amendment standpoint. But preventing a church group from singing carols during the parade? Give me a break. That's stupid. If I can march with local Democrats in a parade (and I have), and the Republicans can have their marchers, then churches should be able to have their groups in a parade, and they should be able to sing their holiday carols.

    Maybe what's needed are some songwriters for Judaism, Islam and Buddhism. ;)
     
  13. dj43

    dj43 New Member

    Aug 9, 2002
    Nor Cal
    True. It is usually an activist ACLU that files a suit based on the "complaint" of a someone on a campaign.

    Give me an example, please, of something about Christmas that offends Christians, other than the commercialization of the day by merchants.
     
  14. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    There are so many beautiful Christmas songs and not even one decent Chanukah song that I'm aware of. Ironically, many of the most popular Christmas songs were written by Jews.
     
  15. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    Private companies can do exactly what they want; isn't that the Conservative cry?
    As for Denver - if he was elected, its his choice. No one here is asking for a LAW to ban Christmas. Deal with it.
     
  16. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    Adam Sandler's song is hilarious. I've no idea what you're talking about.
     
  17. Shurik

    Shurik New Member

    Nov 2, 1999
    Baltimore, MD
    :eek: EXCUSE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!! Adam Sandler, anyone?

    And what about some atheist songwriters?

    That Miriam is not my lover
    She's just a girl who think's
    Moishe's the one
    The kid is not my son
    The kid is not my son
    I think it was a Holy Spirit
    Yeah, that's right, 'twas Him, the prick!
     
  18. Barbara

    Barbara BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 29, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States


    How can he do that when what he said is that Christians aren't offended.


    Look, I'm with Tim. I understand why government buildings should be kept as secular as possible but not letting people sing carols in a parade? That's totally ridiculous. Totally.

    Look, people who show up to watch a freaking Christmas parade aren't going to be offended by a few Christmas carols. Cripes.
     
  19. speedcake

    speedcake Member

    Dec 2, 1999
    Tampa
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Well good for you.

    You big fat grinch.


    ;)
     
  20. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    Its a corporate decision. They're allowed to do so if they think its commercially feasible. What's the problem here? Do you want the government to force them to allow carolers????
     
  21. speedcake

    speedcake Member

    Dec 2, 1999
    Tampa
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess there really isn't, or shouldn't be, a problem with gov. buildings only displaying signs that read "Happy Holidays".

    The spirit of the holiday season won't be broken. The soar spots like over commercialization might wear on some, but regardless of faith the holiday season is still a special time and we all deserve a special time. Happy Holidays covers it all just fine.

    A private parade can decide whatever it wants, I guess. If they make themselves look like asses, then they look like asses.
     
  22. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I think it depends on the sentiment. If it's done because they want to be kind of lazy and put up just one sign as a catch-all, then that's fine, if a bit lazy. If they think it wrong to celebrate a christian festival, then that's just wrong. Nobody bats an eyelid when anybody else in any other religion puts up any kind of sign that is exclusive to their religion, so why should christian festivals have to be broadened out into a some bland homogeneous festival?

    In the UK, which is about as secular as places get anywhere in the world, you still see christmas decorations everywhere, even on public buildings, despite almost nobody giving a single thought to baby jesus or any of that stuff.
    Religious types here (regarded generally with the kind of suspicion reserved for people who'll tell you they are in regular contact with aliens) often talk about how people have forgotten the true spirit of christmas. I think that's a good thing, as if we followed the true spirit of christmas we'd have no...
    presents
    decorations
    christmas trees
    christmas cards
    no two weeks off work (we just squander it over here)
    no extra football
    no christmas dinner
    no significance to Dec 25th
    no office parties
    father christmas
    and other stuff to no doubt

    honestly, christmas would be so much more fun if people didn't keep trying to drag religion into it. I mean, committed athiests can love christmas and indulge in those things above, so if other religions want to be killjoys about it to not join in then that's their loss.
     
  23. Barbara

    Barbara BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 29, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Depends on who "them" is.

    But look, if you're not going to let people sing Christmas carols you should probably not be having a Christmas parade, you know?
     
  24. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    Hey, I'm not saying its "reasonable", I'm just saying its within their rights entirely. Their as in "corporations".
     
  25. Barbara

    Barbara BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 29, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Well, yeah. Duh. If it's corporations who are sponsoring the parade. I just figured it was a local city council type thing.
     

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