InStat’s ratings are bogus, but I will say that Groenen is who you’d least want out of the big midfield 3 to not have her usual defensive impact (second half vs Denmark in the group stages last Euros is the biggest evidence of this). Van de Donk and Spitse had a worse giveaway each and were well beaten on duels as well, but on rewatch, Groenen was beaten on duels that eventually (not directly though) ended up in the two big Van der Gragt saves. Weirdly enough, I think the French created better on a set Dutch defense (the two Van der Gragt saves) than they did on more transition plays (Spitse’s early giveaway and Van de Donk’s like midway through the half). Look at the first 3 minutes of the second half; two quality progressive Groenen passes to Miedema off of a ball recovery and off of a great tackle on Cascarino.
A lot of fans have complained about Parsons having no attacking plan/patterns. Some truth to that, but is he really also supposed to teach his players how to make runs? Between 59:00 to 61:00, Groenen sent in two crosses that could well have led to respectable, if not high, xG chances if they had been for France’s attackers in my opinion. Roord and Miedema just remained in the same place for several seconds while Pelova and Groenen teamed up to put the ball in a great area for a first time shot if Roord or Miedema had made the run. On the second cross, I just don’t know why Pelova held back her run and gave up any possibility of a chance while allowing Perisset to clear with no pressure. If that had been Martens or Brugts, I think that situation would have been more dangerous. Some weird calls in my opinion in this match that just took momentum away from the Dutch at bad times. Casparij made a really good tackle deep in France’s half in regulation stoppage time that was somehow called a foul. A Torrent handball deep in France’s half late in the second ET period was somehow not called leading to a Bacha break the other way, and then, Bacha putting out her hand into Groenen’s neck/face was somehow not called as well.
France is just a better team so whether it's Parsons or someone else, the dutch would have still lost the game. I honestly think they are still broken after their defeat in the Olympics... They haven't really looked great ever since specially Miedema and Martens.
Miedema, Martens, Van de Donk, and Roord publicly complaining about Parsons' tactics/style of play would mean more to me if I haven't watched all of them struggle with their attacking play in a major tournament under Wiegman as well. Some people online are so quick with their screenshots. Apparently, Hegerberg's Twitter account posted a reaction to the Dutch going out with a picture of Egurrola; now, that's been corrected, and that post is on Egurrola's Twitter account. Do players really need their PR team to do that for them? I knew this was the case in men's football, but I wasn't sure if it was also prevalent in women's football. It makes the reaction posts feel a bit insincere, but maybe that's just me.
Okay, so it's just players asking for help from time to time (at least on the women's side), and they're in full control of what's said.
They have the same agent. What is ckear is some players get abused online so much that someone does their socials to protect them from the harassment.
Parsons is not the only reason, and probably not the most significant reason why the Netherlands performed quite weak on Euro, but still he seems like a huge downgrade from Wiegman. Mostly psychologically. He might be not that bad in tactics and other technical matter, but it looks like he failing to connect with the players, earn their trust and encourage them. Team spirit was a great part of the recent Dutch success. And now players just look confused and reluctant on the field.
The hate Parsons is getting is rather odd and sad. It seems personal too. I mean he was loved at Portland on and off the field so I just don't get it. Besides, he just took over this squad like 6 months ago so are people really expecting him to be winning major tournaments pronto?
Yeah, as far as I know, he was well liked at Portland by the players, but fans apparently still gave him a lot of criticism. I don’t know why Darke (or whoever told him to) pushed the narrative of benching Roord for criticizing him; her performances vs Portugal and Switzerland arguably merited benching, and those comments came to light post Sweden. I think a lot of fans hold Parsons being a man against him as well, which is just ridiculous. I’m just flummoxed by the level of backlash.
It's almost certain that the players have not connected very deeply with Parsons--and it would completely understandable that they haven't. Wiegman is very good at connecting with players--it could be her best quality--but she is also Dutch, and a former longtime Dutch national team player herself. So she was a natural connection with the team. Parsons is not Dutch, does not speak Dutch, and he's only been with the team for, what, 7 months? So it was obvious that the transition and adjustment to him would not be easy or natural. And keep in mind, too, that this is a mostly veteran team that has played a certain style, and been quite successful with it, for several years. He's been a successful coach in the past, and he's been quite supportive of the players. It's not his fault that personnel issues have developed--Martens has had lots of injury issues and was awful in this tourney, Van de Sanden has not been playing regularly and wasn't even picked, Van Lunteren retired, Van Veenendaal's best days are behind her, Spitse is 32, and Miedema has lately been playing the 10 position for her club--stupid--rather than her regular goal-scoring 9 position. The team has NO quality forward depth. With Van de Sanden out and Martens having problems, the Dutch have been forced the last year or two to start a midfielder (Roord, DvD) at forward--or, against France, Pelova--another natural midfielder! The only other decent forward the Dutch have is Beerensteyn, and like others, her play lately has been very underwhelming. I can't think of a single significant attacking contribution that she made in 4 Euro22 games--maybe I've missed one or two. After the loss, a couple of Dutch fans couldn't understand how a team with such "amazing" players would be under-achieving--and blamed Parsons. Wrong. Fact is, the Dutch don't have hardly anybody who's "amazing" at the moment. The team's most amazing player at the tourney was Van Domselaar--who had one start before Euro22! France had more amazing athletes than we did, that's for sure. We had nobody--not one player--who troubled France with her pace, power, runs....Nobody. In addition to the problems listed above, Parsons started two 21-year-olds at fullback against France--one of them making her first NT start!--and the other (Wilms) still a long way from "good" (and it's unclear if she'll ever get there). One of the rare athletic attacking players that the Dutch made against France was by the player making her first start--Casparij. So, the problem is, the Dutch don't really have amazing players right now...at all. The team doesn't match up well, at all, with France--and that is why France was to be avoided, if possible. (As Roord noted, The Netherlands blew it when they let Portugal back into that game. Should have won it 4-0 at least and instead had to scramble to win 3-2.) Groenen is still good and played her butt off all tourney--as she always does--and DvD, coming back from a major injury, also showed a lot of energy and worked hard defensively against the French, even if L'Equipe gave her (and the team) a lot of flak for the performance. I give Parsons credit for starting the transition to younger players. On the bright side, it looks like we've got our next very good keeper--and I'm also pretty high on Casparij based on how she played against France. She is athletic and pacey--and if anything, made mistakes by barreling into the attack a little too much and exposing the flank to French counters. In my opinion, Parsons and his staff have got to figure out how to inject more strength/pace/dynamism into the attack, and that will solely depend on whether the Dutch have got some young players with the potential to do that. The coaches seem high on Brugts, and there's talent there--but she's still very young and diidn't add anything positive, really, against France. Don't know about Leuchter--haven't seen enough of her. Does Martens have one more good tourney in her? I'm sure PSG is wondering that after the Euros and now that she's apparently injured again. Parsons has got a difficult job ahead of him, and let's face it, while the Dutch should be competitive for years to come, The Netherlands doesn't have nearly the talent pool of countries like France, Germany and the United States.
Relative Dutch player ranking by inStat and FotMob inStat (best to worst) Egurrola, Spitse, Van der Gragt, Leuchter, Martens, Van de Donk, Van Domselaar, Van Veenandaal, Pelova, Brugts, Olislagers, Roord, Groenen, Wilms, Janssen, Casparij, Miedema, Nouwen, Beerensteyn FotMob (best to worst) Egurrola, Spitse, Groenen, Van der Gragt, Van Domselaar, Martens, Leuchter, Wilms, Van de Donk, Pelova, Roord, Janssen, Brugts, Olislagers, Beerensteyn, Casparij, Miedema, Nouwen, Van Veenandaal Biggest differences: Van Veenandaal (FotMob - 19th, InStat - 8th), Groenen (FotMob - 3rd, InStat - 13th), and Wilms (FotMob - 8th, InStat - 14th) The FotMob algorithm has given Groenen multiple poor scores in the FA WSL before, and eye test wise, she was a top 3 Dutch player this Euros. When has the inStat algorithm ever given Groenen a high score (closest probably being the WWC semifinal where she still only had the fourth highest match score)? She was not remotely close to being only the 13th best Dutch player. Van de Donk scoring higher than Groenen for the Sweden match is just ridiculous (7.8 for Groenen vs 6.2 for Van de Donk on FotMob), and Van Domselaar being in inStat's bottom 4 for the Sweden match is equally bad. Van Domselaar and Groenen were both underrated by inStat for the Switzerland match considering the scores Spitse and Van der Gragt put up; both scored higher than Van der Gragt on FotMob and were only just behind Spitse's FotMob rating. Pelova and Spitse's inStat ratings vs France are just too high in my opinion given how low Groenen's score was and the fact that Van der Gragt just barely outscored Pelova and Spitse. InStat is telling me that Spitse vs France was an equivalent performance to Groenen vs Sweden; that's just not right. Martens is such an elite player when she's at her best, but I honestly don't know how she was rated that well by both inStat and FotMob. She had some quality passes/crosses and put in more defensive work than she usually does, but she also didn't offer any consistent offensive thrust/drive or any consistent chance creation. L'orange, I agree with you on Van de Donk's energy/defensive work, but she just doesn't do it for me offensively. She didn't shine in that department either in 2017 or 2019 in my opinion, but fair point on her just coming back from injury. Edit: Also, McGrady responding to Henderson the way she did on Twitter? I don't blame her.
I wonder if Parsons should consider dropping the 4-3-3 and moving to a 4-2-2. I think he should have done so in this tournament. Why? Because the Dutch don't have the personnel to play a good 4-3-3 against strong opponents. The team has no forwards! We do have 5 good midfielders--and IMO it would have been better deploying 4 of them than using three, one of whom is 32-year-olds. Arguably Pelova's best asset is that she is strong on the ball: There was one moment against France when she two French players tried to dispossess her--and she came away with the ball. Strength on the ball is something we lacked and needed in the midfield against France. I mean, I suppose when the Dutch play a midfielder at forward, it becomes something of a 4-2-2 because the midfielder, not having the pace to play wide and fast, drops back and plays more inside. Yes, I can't take those match player ratings seriously---and, agree, there's NO WAY Spitse vs. France should be even close to Groenen vs. Sweden. Groenen was fantastic in that game. I think Parsons and his staff have got to start trying new things/players to jump-start the attack. How to do it when both your forwards and midfield seem to be a problem? Since the Dutch have more midfield talent than forward talent, I wonder if the Dutch should go to a true 4-2-2. I'm no coach--ha--but how can you play a 4-3-3 given the forward situation? I know the mid who's been playing forward tends to drop back and inside--but is there a better way? Would it make sense to put Pelova as a central mid in a 4-player midfield and see if she can give the team some attacking thrust? She is very strong on the ball, which is a very important quality for players when playing strong, athletic pressing opponents like France. Groenen is strong on the ball as well, DvD, not bad but not as strong. What is Egurrola's strength--I don't even know? Can she eventually replace Spitse as a defensive mid? Could Brugts play attacking mid? Questions, questions! I don't know, but the Dutch are really have no attacking fizz right now.
We've learned in the last few days that Casparij has signed with ManCity--a big move for her that should speed her development. And now Van Veenendaal has suddenly retired. No doubt Van Domselaar's outstanding performance at the Euros was a big factor in this decision, as it was clear that the veteran was going to lose her starting position. Van Veenendaal was certainly not a graceful or smoothly athletic keeper--which I think hurt the perception of her abilities by some. But she was effective and a strong voice and leader of the Dutch NT for several years. I'll always remember that fingertip save of hers against Sweden in the WC semifinal--brilliant. Not many keepers can claim a European championship, WC final and Best Keeper award at a World Cup, so she has a lot to be proud of. I think we'll see other members of the Dutch Golden Generation retire from national team play after the next World Cup--I hope not before. I'd like to think the veterans will get together and vow to give it everything they've got from now to the completion of the next World Cup, as it will be their last chance for glory. And perhaps not a great last chance, but a chance nonetheless!
Wow, 32 yo sounds like a quite early retirement for a GK. Probably, apart from the specific injury at the Euro, there were recurring physical probelms for her, but anyway I didn't properly expect that.
I think she realized that she lost her spot as the Dutch #1 to van Domselaar and maybe did not want to be a back up GK. A couple of weeks ago I commented on the Dutch forum about older women players and that we really don't have much of history as to when they would not have the skills to keep up. My point is that there is not a long history to draw upon. This Dutch generation came to the fore in the last Euro, five years ago. Many more Euro countries field competitive sides these days compared to even 10 years ago. I hope that women's club football can succeed across all the countries but worry that it is only going to mirror the men's game with a small number of rich clubs.
I wouldn't voluntarily play with 9 players only no Eventually? She was born ready, as posted when the first rumours started going around and I found out she was half Dutch she was one of the standouts for me in the Spanish youth teams (that name had stuck with me) Van Veenendaal said she had already decided before the tournament that this would be her last performance and wants to explore other things (she told herself that if the day came she couldn't wholeheartedly commit to being on the pitch everyday anymore it was time to quit). Of course unlike the men at the same international level they still have to work for 30 years after their playing career .... (so retiring at 32 may sound young, it might be wiser to do so anyway). Pairing her up with Folkertsma could be something for example, speaking of I wonder where she will be going (being a Bordeaux player last season) ... What I actually came here for, severe knee injury again for Jonna van de Velde and out for the season (might be number 3 if I'm not mistaken? I see I did mix her up with Folkertsma so just the second injury for vd Velde; and Folkertsma as well last season). A potential NT player but now you have to wonder if she'll make it back at all really .... (out for most of last season with a knee injury and only made her comeback in the last couple of weeks of that season). Jonna is tijdens een training zwaar geblesseerd geraakt aan haar knie. We denken aan je, Jonna 😣❤️— Ajax Vrouwen (@AjaxVrouwen) July 29, 2022
Great move for Casparij and City. Will be interested to see how she does next season. Apart from her very consistent shot stopping, I also thought Van Domselaar's distribution was largely quality, something I haven't really thought about Van Veenandaal's passing even at her best. Van Veenandaal has had a great career though and was top notch in 2017 and 2019 for the Dutch; it's unfortunate that her last match played out the way it did.
Good catch, Desinho! I meant 4-4-2, of course. Sux about those knee injuries. A second injury to same knee can certainly wreck one's career.
Someone remind me: Was Arjan Veurink--Wiegman's assistant coach with the Dutch NT who is now her top assistant with England--offered The Netherlands head job when Wiegman left? If he wasn't, why wouldn't he have been offered--given his tenure with the team and the fact that his background was very similar to Wiegman's (rival coaches in the Eredivisie) before she got the big NT job? It would have been logical to offer him the job, no, if there were no better qualified candidates with the Dutch footballing association? And if he was offered the position and didn't take it, why? I can't imagine him not wanting the head job. All I remember is that the KNVP was interested in offering the job to the woman who is now Parson's assistant--wasn't she coach of the Dutch women's U20 NT?---but she (rightly, IMO) felt that she didn't have enough experience for the job? I'm OK with Parsons, but it occurred to me that it doesn't seem to make much sense that Veurink didn't get the job given there were no other high-profile candidates and he would have been her logical successor.
Wikipedia states that he asked to be released from his contract when Wiegman moved on. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arjan_Veurink
Happy to see that Inter-Milan as signed Van der Gragt . Wasn't Groenen rumored to be heading to Juve?
There were advanced negotiations, but it looks like they weren't finalized and Juventus ended signing Gunnarsdottir instead.
With no one having created a wiki for the upcoming Eredivisie season, I went digging (very quickly) and noticed the schedule has not been finalized (scheduled to start in another month), and the league will expand to include Fortuna Sittard and Telstar. Mostly WNT news in this thread, but does anybody know, is VV Alkmaar going back into the Telstar fold or will the remain as they are now? https://vrouweneredivisie.nl/competitieprogramma-azerion-vrouwen-eredivisie-seizoen-2022-23-bekend/ In Dutch.
VV Alkmaar is remaining the club in Alkmaar. Telstar is the new women club after the secession in 2017 of the women from Telstar into VV Alkmaar. So basically Telstar restarted it's women department.
Do you realize that the Netherlands has to actually beat Iceland to qualify for the world cup. Those two draws against Czech could really come back to bite