The National Defense Authorization Act

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Steamer, Jan 4, 2012.

  1. Steamer

    Steamer New Member

    Jan 30, 2006
    Sorry. Can't link right now.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. HerthaBerwyn

    HerthaBerwyn Member+

    May 24, 2003
    Chicago
    Link, or think?
     
  3. 96Squig

    96Squig Member

    Feb 4, 2004
    Hanover
    Club:
    Hannover 96
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Well, even Bush didn't have the balls to do something like this. This piece of legislation will bite America in the butt at some point of time.
     
  4. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    taosjohn put some good links up on this very thought in another thread. Merge?
     
  5. tomwilhelm

    tomwilhelm Member+

    Dec 14, 2005
    Boston, MA, USA
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Like for example the next time we're dumb enough to elect a guy like Bush...
     
  6. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    Like 2008?

    Awful bill.
     
  7. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Where the hell have you been? :D
     
  8. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    Lurking, mostly. It's too crazypantsbananas anywhere in proximity of an election on this forum.
     
  9. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We coulda used you with the persianfootball smackdown.
     
  10. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    That shitfest in the Middle East Events thread or somewhere else? I've been watching the former, and boy, has it been...interesting.
     
  11. tomwilhelm

    tomwilhelm Member+

    Dec 14, 2005
    Boston, MA, USA
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed. But where I trust Obama to not use the provision about the indefinite detention of citizens, I would expect someone like Bush to use it liberally.

    Hopefully the SC rules that piece unconstitutional before we're in a position to find out...
     
  12. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Where does this trust come from?
     
  13. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
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    United States
    The fact that he pushed hard to make the bill less draconian than the version the House passed.
     
  14. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    No kidding!

    The guy who robo-assassinates US citizens is apparently trusted to not use a power that has already been used to an extent - just because he wrote some mean words about it!
     
  15. 96Squig

    96Squig Member

    Feb 4, 2004
    Hanover
    Club:
    Hannover 96
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    In regards to human and civil rights Obama has been a big disappointment, whether he made the law less draconian and say he won't use it or not. In extraordinary circumstances I could see him use that law. Someone from the political right in America would probably use it in everyday policing. Not sure what is better, actually.
     
  16. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
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    Carl Levin disagrees

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHaJrnlqCgo#"]Proof Obama Will Sign NDAA 1031 Citizen Indefinite Detention Law in a Few Days - YouTube[/ame]!
     
  17. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yup, that's the guy. He also said in the North Korea thread that Kim-Jong-Il is a better leader than democratically-elected ones because he wants to enact utopia.
     
  18. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    ELEVEN holes-in-one!!!!! ELEVEN!!!!!
     
  19. Steamer

    Steamer New Member

    Jan 30, 2006
    I would think everyone would be against this, regardless of where side of the aisle you're on.
     
  20. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  21. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's a shitty law and it sucks that he signed it.
     
  22. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    I have a feeling this was back when I was a lawyer?

    Not remembering anything fitting this description...:confused:
     
  23. Q*bert Jones III

    Q*bert Jones III The People's Poet

    Feb 12, 2005
    Woodstock, NY
    Club:
    DC United
    Bradley Manning says hi.
     
    1 person likes this.
  24. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    :confused:

    This is a really really poor comparison and doesn't support your point at all. Manning was arrested on charges under the UCMJ of divulging classified information. He is represented by counsel and just last month, there have been pre-trial hearings and whether a court martial will proceed.

    You can argue that he shouldn't have been arrested, that he has a First Amendment defense, that the conditions of his incarceration have been harsh. But he's not a poster child for what's wrong (and I do think things are wrong) with the indefinite detention provisions in the NDAA.
     
  25. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Yoss & Ors....

    Interested in your views on the following...

    When this was being debated in the UK in terms of 90 day detention, one of the most cogent arguments against was the ease with which detention becomes arbitrary detention.

    In other words, in theory the police get the extra time/leeway they need with their difficult sensitive cases - but there is no way to be sure that they won't use it in other cases as well.

    So the criteria to use the power becomes a bit irrelevant if you don't have judicial oversight in the 90 days.

    This was not a theoretical problem by any means.

    For instance in Malaysia where the power was for 6mths - Courts would release detainees at the end of the 6 mth period - only for them to be re-arrested on the steps of the Courthouse. This led to Courts ordering that the person was not to be re-arrested!

    How does the bill ensure oversight of the power? Is it simply normal Judicial Review and habeus?
     

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