The market for strikers

Discussion in 'FC Dallas' started by theodore, Jan 24, 2008.

  1. theodore

    theodore Member

    Nov 7, 2003
    Coach's fault. Me be simple...

    Give forward ball= he have chance at goal
    don't give forward ball=he no have chance at goal
     
  2. boomersooner027

    May 13, 2004
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    Bahamas
    7 goals in 30 regular season games.

    12 goals in 38 games counting USOC, Superliga and Playoffs

    He scores in the big games. Not saying he shouldn't have more in theory, but 12 in 38 isn't awful and there's few forwards in the league that could do better at the price we had Ruiz at.
     
  3. UncleHulka

    UncleHulka Member

    Jan 14, 2005
    Mr. Vegas rep.

    Unfortunately, I'm afraid the next big geezer signing from FCD will have a similar physique.
     
  4. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I hold this post with the same amount of regard as I would a post suggesting that the earth is flat. Why? Because they stand in direct contrast with the empirical evidence. Just as there is copious evidence that the earth is round, there is the 2006 season and the 2007 season prior to June 9 that show that having Ruiz on the roster does not hurt Cooper's goal production.

    But other than its complete disconnect from reality, you post was awesome.
     
  5. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly.

    I'm already preparing a vast armada of "I told you so" posts (OK, not really) for when Ruiz starts putting in the goals on a regular basis in 2008. I have rarely been more convinced about something than I am about this.

    While I think that theo occasionally beats the dead horse into Elmer's Glue, I do agree with him on one issue: Ruiz is a scapegoat. People complain about bad behavior, both real and imagined, but I think that this team is a poorer team without him. Do I like diving and bitching at the ref and kidnapping the Lindbergh baby and whatever else he's been accused of? Not really. You know what I like even less? LOSING. And I can't really see how you can ship off your leading scorer for a bag of beans and say that you've gotten better. And as Jimmy Johnson once famously said, "You're either getting better or you're getting worse." And "getting worse" means "losing."
     
  6. hutchtx

    hutchtx Member

    Jul 21, 2007
    Texas
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I freely admit that my experience goes back just over one year with the team. I watched them at he end of 2006, but was not engaged enough to follow any of the happenings between the seasons. In March of last year, we took a look at the schedule, said, "hey, let's do season tickets this year," and that was that.

    Soooooooo, I am totally prepared to have you say "I told you so" if the team is doing worse by the All Star break than they were doing last year . . . or, what would you deem a long enough period to judge them by?

    And as for Ruiz, he could be brilliant at times -- like when he scored against Chicago on Sept 20th and when he let the ball pass by to Dax and Dax scored his first goal. But my inexperienced impression was that the negatives of his behavior (he made a disappointing captain, for example) outweighed the times he was the brilliant striker he's supposed to be.

    Oh, and I don't doubt he'll score more frequently with Beckham around . . . wouldn't most good soccer players? But as for FCD, I am still willing to "wait and see" what the season brings. And I'm still hopeful.

    Of course, give me as many years as Theo has had, and I might be different!
    :D
     
  7. fennsk

    fennsk New Member

    Jan 30, 2007
    Pittsburgh, PA
    I've been struggling to put my thoughts on this issue into words (my other posts were somewhat clumsily worded), but this post did it for me. I started following FCD closely around the same time, and I saw the same thing. I was mostly frustrated with Ruiz, and only occasionally saw moments of brilliance.
     
  8. Toja Rocks!

    Toja Rocks! New Member

    Aug 2, 2007
    Allen, TX
    If you folks here hate hitch and morrow so much, and have this absurd love for ruiz, why keep on the FCD thread? The Galaxy have a thread too. That's the new team that Ruiz plays for. But quit with the whining. When it's your team you coach it how you want. Geez.

    Look - the fact is that for what we got from Ruiz last year, he was overpaid. Yes, good strikers are hard to come by. But there are times when a player doesn't fit a team's style or personality. Morrow has a way he likes his teams to play (although I'm still trying to figure out exactly what that is), and maybe Ruiz doesn't fit that mold. The fact that Ruiz and the FO didn't really hide the fact that they were trying to trade him really lessened their leverage - so this bag of magic beans was about all they were going to get for him.

    Yes, I firmly believe that Ruiz will score more goals in LA this year - he's a guy that needs to have the ball delivered to him with a red bow on it. Mr. Posh is just the guy that can do that. Doesn't mean keeping him here at his salary was going to give him the same goal production.

    Let's see what Morrow and the FO do, give some of the guys on the roster already a chance, and if things don't work out then we can all go back to rooting for the Rangers.
     
  9. hutchtx

    hutchtx Member

    Jul 21, 2007
    Texas
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well said, TR. Especially the above paragraph about Ruiz. With Beckham, he can stand around all he wants and wait for those autographed balls to put into the net. . . and I'm sure that he'll get some. I mean, while I love our team, I'm not THAT delusional to think that any of our players can pass like DB.

    And I don't hate Ruiz -- I just think that, after being given the role as team captain, he could have stepped up more to BE a good captain (ie see Ricchetti, who was brand new to the team but often acted as a captain should).

    P.S. Not sure about rooting for the Rangers, though . . .
     
  10. *Jade*

    *Jade* New Member

    Jan 7, 2008
    USA
    I guess you guys didn't understand my question in my other post. I've read a post that said FC Dallas are looking for veteran attackers and proven scorers. What about Dallas acquiring Martin Palermo? He's made many goals in his career. He's 34 and still a good player. I don't know if Boca are willing to let him go though.

    What about Claudio Lopez? Are they still considering him?
     
  11. Scipio Gothicus

    Aug 6, 2001
    Cabo San Lucas
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Which had already been spent on a defender. He had some great years in Mexico City, but is still an unknown quality in the MLS. He could be great. He could be useless. Much better the evil you know....

    FCD traded offense for defense. In so doing, FCD has made the Gals a serious contender, and taken themselves out of the race. It is said that Ruiz requires service "woth a bow" on it. Pele once took the ball eighty yards, but he is not playing for FCD. Every other striker on Earth needs service. If a team does not have the talent to get the ball forward, no striker will thrive. Ruiz will be a monster in Los Angeles, at least a few times at FCD's expense.

    While Theo and I have been on the same page for years now, I cannot agree that Morrow is the problem. It is the lack of a midfielder that is the problem. On the contrary, I think Morrow did an excellent job. Without a great deal of talent and with gaping holes in the line up, he managed a third place finish. He did an excellent job with what the clueless Hitchcock gave him.

    I do believe that FCD will bring in another forward. Regardless of Morrow's arguments that theer aer enough forwards on the team, they will bring in a player. He will not be as good as Ruiz, though he will be trumpeted as the next great star. Until this team finds a palyer who can hold and pass the ball, mediocrity is the most we can hope for.

    Dead but dreaming,
    Scipio Diabolus,
    vox fatum.

    Contra.

    SGLF
     
  12. paladius

    paladius Member

    Sep 27, 2003
    Frisco, Texas
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Morrow thinks we already have enough forwards on the team? Please tell me he doesn't really think that.

    Lightnin' is so slow that he has to plan his runs into space three days ahead...

    Oduro's finishing skills rank him up there with the great "King Of Goals"...

    Cooper is a forward with an identity crisis...

    Ricardinho... What has he shown that even merits discussion?

    Big Bob... This guy has the tools if he's fit, but he isn't terribly fast, and he's got to stay off the twinkies (plus, he wouldn't pair well with Thompson)...

    So, in short, we have one of the worst forward lines in MLS, and it seems that HSG is moving so slowly to resolve this (or they are in denial) that we are hosed for this coming season.

    Gee, let's get rid of the league's all-time most lethal scorer because he can't perform without service (duh, who can?) and let's stand pat on a group of wannabees that might be lucky to score 5 goals a season.

    This is madness! And please don't tell me Morrow wants to go with one forward up top! That has never, never, never worked over the long haul for us, and it reeks of bunker ball.
     
  13. jamezyjamez

    jamezyjamez Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Dallas
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    While some of the descriptions may be a bit harsh, I agree that we do not have a proven MLS forward as the roster stands now. KCJ is closest, and I don't know that I have seen enough of Dom or Rico in enough different roles to know their potential as a regular starter...but still, not proven.

    With every passing day, this decision becomes more important and IMO will define our approach to this season. We have three options as I see it:

    1. Sign a big name international striker with 1-2 viable years left in the tank.
    2. Sign a young international striker with big potential.
    3. Stand pat and see how it goes (maybe pick up a CAP striker).

    I was really pulling for #1 when the Ruiz trade happened (not a fan of it btw), but now I don't know that a new #1 will make all that much difference given the other issues with the team (possession, service, creativity, third defender).

    Now I am leaning toward #2 and giving the young player some serious minutes this season. Give all the young players more time this season and let's build for the following season. I think we could do this and still be reasonably competitive this season (e.g. playoffs).

    Nobody likes #3 (including me), but I prefer that to #1 if we are not going to address our other issues.
     
  14. 3rd Degree

    3rd Degree Member

    Feb 6, 2000
    Dallas
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Since morrow knows a lot more about soccer than all of us and it's abundantly clear to us he needs a forward, how could anyone believe Morrow really thinks he has the answer on his team.
     
  15. theodore

    theodore Member

    Nov 7, 2003
    Sorry. But, you don't have the authority to define how any of us must support the team. And what does this mean: "when it is your team coach it how you want." ? Do you mean that in your world, the only ones allowed to question dumb decisions made by the team are owners? It doesn't work that way. Not here, not anywhere else. Certainly not in any of the other professional sports played locally.

    I am not a fan of the Rangers. I am a fan of good local soccer. It has been hijacked, and I am just advocating for its return to the good people of DFW. Why is it that in your world, you must either support Morrow or hit the road as a fan? Morrow is not the team, at least not outside of his ego trip. Morrow was a poor hire, who had a decent start, but is in the mid-process of bringing back the Cycle of Suck . I can certainly hate this but support the team.

    The poor fit around here are Morrow's tactics, and his recent rash scapegoating personnel decisions.

    Let me tell you why I think what I think. The Texas summer will sap the legs out of anyone who plays or works in the oppressive heat. The team/personnel that Morrow is putting together is what Buzz refers to as "Morrow's type of players" "players with range". I refer to it as whirling dervishes of dribble. It is kind of like the old British Isles type of soccer, "kick and rush", just without the "kick" part of it. Look what happened to Toja in the early part of the year. He was one of the best in MLS. Look what happened to Toja at mid-summer. He became pretty pedestrian. Throughout the year, team's get defensively more organized. Tactics become more important than individual penetration. We need a guy who understands how to implement a modern possession type of attack. A coach who has a background in the nuances of the variations of countering and penetrating in a variety of systems. An expert in the functional, (positional), qualities and how to organize them. Unfortunately, Pareja quit. This is not Morrow's way. And, instead of a home field advantage for 50% of our games, we are going to have a home field disadvantage for more than 50% of our home games in the summer. Knowledgeable soccer people have been bitching all year about the "poor use of width". Others have talked about the "lack of service". The team stats show you that we do not use the pass to create opportunities. You could go ahead and use corners of the field to sell concessions during the games on FCD's attacking end, because the team will never take the ball to the end to stretch a defense and then cross or circulate. Go to the average youth game played on the surrounding fields and you will see better tactics. Teams know how to use the early, short, and long cross. We don't. Strike up a conversation with an even average youth coach and ask him/her about these tactics and FCD. Don't take my word for any of it. See what they tell you.
    I don't think that Morrow knows nearly enough about soccer as he has led you to believe. And to specifically answer your question, I believe that Morrow is now realizing that the only possible answers the team can afford are the ones on the team. It would take about 500K to 600K for the team to re-acquire Ruiz. And, it would probably also cost them a player like Toja to get a Ruiz clone from another MLS team.
     
  16. 3rd Degree

    3rd Degree Member

    Feb 6, 2000
    Dallas
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you are right, Morrow won't be coaching here in 2009.
     
  17. theodore

    theodore Member

    Nov 7, 2003
    Hola Jade. Que tal. I won't ignore you. I too like Palermo. But, here are what I think are some big deal killers. Martin plays more like a target. A big guy that receives crosses and puts them in the back of the net. We had a guy who was world class at that sort of style, but he was let go because he couldn't create his own goals without passes. This coach is looking for a speedy runner. I think you and I can both agree that this is not Martin's game.

    I wish we could change the style of play. Maybe next season we will try a different approach, but for now those type of players like Martin Palermo won't succeed here.

    On a positive note for you as I know you are into the aesthetics of it all. I think that our own Kenny Cooper bears a striking resemblance to Martin Palermo. All he needs is to dye his hair with frosted tips. He too is a forward, and our best bet to score this year.

    Welcome to FCD Big-Soccer and our ongoing family squabble. I hope that you will sit on my end of the dinner table when it comes to disputes.
     
  18. boomersooner027

    May 13, 2004
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    Bahamas
    2 or 3 weeks until we should start seeing how things are looking with some pre-season games.

    Can't get here fast enough
     
  19. 85FinMiles

    85FinMiles Member

    Nov 27, 2006
    Below 20
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    SMU scrimmage again?
     
  20. boomersooner027

    May 13, 2004
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    Bahamas
    Well pitchers and catchers report to PHP on Feb. 4th so I'd think they would schedule a friendly or two before the end of Feb.
     
  21. JaySlick

    JaySlick New Member

    Jan 17, 2008
    Arlington
  22. Wizardscharter

    Wizardscharter New Member

    Jul 25, 2001
    Blue Springs, MO
    No shock that everyone is freaking out on this board. Every team is except for SJ as they are new and just happy to have a roster to talk about and maybe Houston who is 2-time defenders. Par for the course in late January.

    Last I checked, Dallas was still a pretty good team and Ruiz wasn't a major part of it according to the numbers. Add the Cap hit and you have an argument for dealing him to adivision rival. Lalas is the biggest idiot on the block, so kudos to Dallas, IMO.

    Also an opinion is that any team with Toja on it will be competitive. Also that the cupboard in Frisco isn't exactly bare, there are some guys with some ability. Dallas with Cooper for a whole year might have been able to catch up to Houston. We'll see.


    The thread's original post was about the mass flood of strikers leaving or trying to leave MLS. It's a great point. '07 was a nice offensive year with increased emphasis on going forward (all games but DC road games of course - unwatchable stuff, that). '08 is shaping up to be a mystery on the front lines for most MLS teams.

    The consensus is there was nothing of value today in the draft, just projects for the future. Chivas' guys are both off injuries. KC lost EJ, Sealy and Arnaud are hurt right now, and KC has nobody to pass the ball. This thread says DAL has at least an issue. Doorman was a nice cog of creation in NE and Twellman is obviously unhappy at being *ock-blocked. SJ and RSL still have nobody up front. LA is older up front if nothing else, one injury and who's there? Alex Gordon, that's who. This especially if Becks, Ruiz, and Donovan are away at Nat duty...which they will be. Same with Toronto only with lesser names. Who's the name striker in Colorado or Columbus? Anyone know? Andy Herron is the only noteworthy name today on either roster unless you count Schellotto as a forward. NY has a new coach and the dichotomy of Angle and Altidore, who still has some of that new player smell game in and game out.

    Everyone has questions up front.

    CHI, HOU, and DC are pretty well stocked, but that's just 3 of 14 very happy teams. Even Chicago has to wonder a bit about Blanco over 34 games with playoffs.

    Barring SJ games and the emergence of 4-5 rookies and/or second year men, MLS could have a slight defensive slant this year. That would be very strange for an expansion year.
     
  23. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's funny, but true.
     
  24. fennsk

    fennsk New Member

    Jan 30, 2007
    Pittsburgh, PA
    And of those teams, Houston just lost Ngwenya (and possibly Jaqua) to Europe (but they do have Ching), Chad Barrett in Chicago missed on a ton of good looks last year (but they do have Rolfe), and Mexican teams are trying to sign Emilio away from DC (but they did hold onto Moreno).
    NYRB and Chivas USA are the best forward lines in the league. Angel/Altidore and Galindo/Razov are both excellent combos.
     
  25. theodore

    theodore Member

    Nov 7, 2003
    More interesting tidbits to consider. The only teams to score less goals than did we were:
    Toronto - 25
    Colorado -29
    Salt Lake - 31
    Chicago - 31
    LA -38
    FCD -37
    Columbus-39

    We've gotten rid of 7 goals with Ruiz's departure and LA has gained productivity.

    And the second most interesting tidbit is that more than 10% of total goals scored in MLS were scored by guys that will probably not be playing in MLS next year.

    If MFL and EPL get their way and Emilio and Twellman leave, that would be a whopping 17% or more of guys who scored goals that would not be suiting up in MLS next year.
     

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