The ID Card question.

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Naughtius Maximus, Jul 8, 2005.

  1. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Should we introduce ID cards?

    This has been suggested by the British government and I'd be interested in people's opinions.

    Some of the information contained on the cards and the data register necessary for it to be effective is as follows:-

    Name
    Other previous names or aliases;
    Date and place of birth and, if the person has died, the date of death;
    Address
    Previous addresses in the United Kingdom and elsewhere;
    Times of residency at different places in the United Kingdom or elsewhere;
    Current residential status;
    Residential statuses previously held;
    Information about numbers allocated to the applicant for identification purposes and about the documents to which they relate;
    Information about occasions on which recorded information in the Register has been provided to any person;
    Information recorded in the Register on request.
    Photograph
    Fingerprints
    “Other” biometrics (iris recognition);
    Signature
    Nationality;
    Entitlement to remain in the United Kingdom; and
    Where entitlement derives from a grant of leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom, the terms and conditions of that leave.
    National Identity Registration Number;
    The number of any ID card that has been issued;
    National Insurance number;
    The number of any relevant immigration document;
    The number of any United Kingdom passport (within the meaning of the Immigration Act 1971 (c. 77)) that has been issued;
    The number of any passport issued by or on behalf of the authorities of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom or by or on behalf of an international organisation;
    The number of any document that can be used (in some or all circumstances) instead of a passport;
    The number of any identity card issued by the authorities of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom;
    Any reference number allocated by the Secretary of State in connection with an application made for permission to enter or to remain in the United Kingdom;
    The number of any work permit (within the meaning of the Immigration Act 1971);
    Any driver number connected to a driving licence;
    The number of any designated document which is held by the applicant that is a document the number of which does not fall within any of the preceding sub-paragraphs;
    The date of expiry or period of validity of a document the number of which is recorded by virtue of this paragraph.
    The date of every application for registration;
    The date of every application for a modification of the contents of his entry;
    The date of every application confirming the contents of his entry (with or without changes);
    The reason for any omission from the information recorded in his entry;
    Particulars (in addition to its number) of every ID card issued;
    Whether each such card is in force and, if not, why not;
    Particulars of every person who has countersigned an application for an ID card or a designated document;
    Particulars of every notification given by the applicant for the purposes of regulations under section 13(1) (lost, stolen and damaged ID cards etc.);
    Particulars of every requirement by the Secretary of State for the individual to surrender an ID card issued to the applicant.
    The information provided in connection with every application to be entered in the Register, for a modification of the contents of entry in the Register or for the issue of an ID card;
    Information provided in connection with every application confirming entry in the Register (with or without change;
    Particulars of the steps taken, in connection with an application mentioned in paragraph (a) or (b) or otherwise, for identifying the applicant or for verifying the information provided in connection with the application;
    Particulars of any other steps taken or information obtained (otherwise than in connection with an application mentioned in paragraph (a) or (b)) for ensuring that there is a complete, up-to-date and accurate entry about that individual in the Register;
    Particulars of every notification given by that individual for the purposes of section 12.
    A personal identification number to be used for facilitating the making of applications for information recorded in his entry, and for facilitating the provision of the information;
    A password or other code to be used for that purpose or particulars of a method of generating such a password or code;
    Questions and answers to be used for identifying a person seeking to make such an application or to apply for or to make a modification of that entry.
    Particulars of every occasion on which information contained in the individual’s entry has been provided to a person;
    Particulars of every person to whom such information has been provided on such an occasion;
    Other particulars, in relation to each such occasion, of the provision of the information.
    The Bill contains no provision for Parliament to decide what information will be stored in or on the card. This will be left to the discretion of the Home Office.
     
  2. Mikeshi

    Mikeshi New Member

    Jul 14, 2004
    Jasper,Ga
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With all that an ID scroll may be a better option.

    I would think a barcode tattooed on the forehead would work better. With scanners checking against databases. If anything happens we know who was where when. They are hard to fake because if a bar doesn't match a DB file or if it is the identity of another scan elsewhere then red flags will be raised. If appearance is a problem, we can always offer them in many fashionable color schemes. Bangs would have to go, but then that is a small price to pay for freedom.
     
  3. DJPoopypants

    DJPoopypants New Member

    Why do you hate our constitutional right to make money by doing stupid **it?

    [​IMG]
     
  4. verybdog

    verybdog New Member

    Jun 29, 2001
    Houyhnhnms
    For one thing, ID cards are unAmerican.


    But I don't mind having one.
     
  5. DynamoKiev_USA

    DynamoKiev_USA New Member

    Jul 6, 2003
    Silver Spring, MD

    Yay for the Police State \o/
     
  6. Mikeshi

    Mikeshi New Member

    Jul 14, 2004
    Jasper,Ga
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No no.

    Of course I would not want to see someone denied the gateway to heaven due to an inability to turn a sufficient profit whilst here on earth. So we could be flexible and maybe put a barcode on her upper lip. It would give her that Chaplinesque chic and probably would not be too painful.
     
  7. Matt Clark

    Matt Clark Member

    Dec 19, 1999
    Liverpool
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    No. No no and no again. It is precisely this policy that does my head in most about Blair and his shower of halfwits. Britain has for centuries been a nation committed to individual liberty (even if, for much of that time, it was only so relative to other places at that time). This is the nanny state writ large, an expensive, intrusive and utterly pointless exercise is being seen to do something for the sake of it, rather than for the good it will do.

    Sadly, yesterday's attacks will make it all the more likely that the Blair propaganda machine will steamroll us into giving up a little bit more of what makes us British. T'was ever thus with this dreadful government.
     
  8. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    LOL - yeah, Good one :)

    I think you'll find the actual card just contains the name, address and biometric data. The national database contains the rest.

    The information is actually from the http://www.no2id.com site so they're obviously 'agin it. I don't know whether the info there is accurate but it doesn't seem unreasonable to suppose it is.
     
  9. DJPoopypants

    DJPoopypants New Member

    Exactly.

    What would have happened to the british icon - Robin Hood - if he had to scan his ID to get into that archery contest?
     
  10. Metros Striker10

    Metros Striker10 New Member

    Jul 7, 2001
    Planet Earth
    Why not have a fingerprint database? Wasn't that what they used in Back to the Future Part II (when the cops take Marty's girlfriend "home")?
     
  11. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Not sure whether the site lists it but I think you'll find that fingerprints are part of the biometric data. The problem with fingerprints on their own is that there is a margin of error for fingerprints of 1-1.5% I believe. This is the reason for having iris and facial recognition data as well.
     
  12. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Part of the problem I have with this idea and the present discussions surrounding it is who's suggested it. I can well understand people's reluctance to examine the idea rationally when the source is the same party that has taken us to war, (rightly or wrongly), against Iraq thus, apparently, creating the need for a higher level of surveillance of the countries citizens.

    It would be nice, (and I don't mean this as a criticism of you, Matt), if it could be discussed without any extraneous influences but I accept that may not be possible.

    The other problem I have is that I genuinely believe that people have an entirely unreasonable belief in how 'free' they are of government, (and other organisations), surveillance.

    I don't believe we are free from being watched, at least on a national scale. By that I mean our communications, (probably including this), almost certainly are monitored. Also, commercial data is probably available to the security services.

    As some of you may know, I've spent most of my life supporting the British labour party and, in the course of that, I've been on more than a few marches for people like CND. At that time my company was also the UK agent for the Murmansk Shipping company. I'm pretty certain that any security forces examination of these two facts would have led someone to believe that I was, shall we say, 'a bit fishy'.

    Strange as it may seem this is part of the reason why I'd prefer the fact that 'they' are watching us to be out in the open. I'd like to challenge information they hold and correct it if necessary.
     
  13. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I've got nothing against ID cards except a) it'd be a pain in the arse to always have to carry one round, and a pain if you lost it, and b) something you don't want to have should never cost you money - certainly not the sums being mentioned for how much they cost.

    I don't see how anyone can claim carrying something with their ID would infringe their civil liberties, especially as most people carry several items such as credit cards etc every day of their lives.

    I don't think it'd make a slightest bit of difference in combatting terrorism, and only a small one against illegal immigration (we don't tend to deport illegal immigrants we know about now, so I can't see us getting tough on those who don't have a card) as I'm sure they could be forged and/or produced illegally just as passports are now.

    So overall, I'm not against them, I just don't think there's any need for them.
     
  14. skipshady

    skipshady New Member

    Apr 26, 2001
    Orchard St, NYC
    I'd hate to lose my ID card during a drunk Friday night out. I'd much prefer to have a chip implanted. I'd also like to have the chip connected to my bank account, so once they have speech recognition up and running, I can just go to a coffee shop and place my order without ever reaching for my wallet.
     
  15. Ray Luca

    Ray Luca BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Feb 2, 2005
    Demo's don't want people fingerprinted if they did that felones and the dead can't vote. Then they will never win an election.
     
  16. servotron

    servotron New Member

    Mar 4, 2004
    St Paul, MN
    last time, I promise.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. metro24freak

    metro24freak New Member

    Jul 5, 2004
    philly
    In a perfect world I'd say no but seeing how life is today with people flying planes into buildings and putting bombs in the subway I wouldn't be opposed to it. I wouldn't be surprised if something along those lines came out eventually just seeing how things are today
     
  18. DJPoopypants

    DJPoopypants New Member

    Don't get sloppy at a nudie-bar, my friend.

    I shudder to think of how many bank accounts can be cleaned out if a drunken slur would be all it takes to withdraw $1000 from the ATM at Scores.
     
  19. bostonsoccermdl

    bostonsoccermdl Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 3, 2002
    Denver, CO
    Okay.. everyone take a deep breath.. exhale... What EXACTLY is the downside of having an ID card?

    Everyone is so quick to play the "invading my civil liberties" card... I really dont see how things will change.
     
  20. Barbara

    Barbara BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 29, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My problem with the id card/database as described in the first post isn't so much the ID card as it is with the database. The potential for error is enormous.
     
  21. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Karo Viertel
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I read a great article recently where the writer pointed out that it ws no that long ago that an Englishmen could travel overseas and return without anyone questioning his right to do so or asking him where he was going, or where he had been. I liked the sentiment.
     
  22. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Karo Viertel
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    so why have one?

    that being said mate - my gf is german and they all have id cards as well as passports - without any invasion
     
  23. MattR

    MattR Member+

    Jun 14, 2003
    Reston
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My only problem with a national ID card is that most terrorists aren't going to get one. "Mr Atta, please smile for the camera"

    The other problem is that they can't even get the credit card system to work without losing hundreds of thousands of names, who's to say a universal database with all of my information isn't going to get lost equally easily?

    A national ID card isn't that big a step from a driver's license or a passport. But what is the purpose of it? Do I just keep it in my pocket until a cop asks for my papers? Or do I need it for even the most basic non-cash transactions? Maybe if I buy some liquor and cigarettes I show my ID, and that gets stuck in a 'higher medical costs' database? Maybe when I buy soccer tickets, I get stuck in the 'Eurosnob hates American sports' database?

    It's not the card, it's not the data. Its the insecurity and temptation that data provides to those in government who really do want to control the populus.
     
  24. metro24freak

    metro24freak New Member

    Jul 5, 2004
    philly
    There isn't any real way to get a piece of paper or whatever with something saying who you are and where you're from and what you do without someone being able to steal it or get a copy or for them to get a fake one. The only you could make an ID card of sorts that couldn't be copied or fake is to get everyone's fingerprints and put them in database. That isn't gonna work if you got your hand amputated or something. But the point is you can't have any sort of ID that can't be stolen or faked.
     
  25. Mel Brennan

    Mel Brennan PLANITARCHIS' BANE

    Paris Saint Germain
    United States
    Apr 8, 2002
    Baltimore
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly. Tell me the PRECISE purpose you need my information for, and you get THAT information, and nothing more.
     

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