I'd argue it's just as futile to "prove" that Ronaldo was better than Van Basten. It's all based on personal opinion. Stats have nothing to do with it. Otherwise I'd expect to see Bep Bakhuys on the list as well.
thats common nonsens...the poll shows that the majority on this forum dont agrree with your opinion .....and i dont agrree too...iam a bit sick to read from you your excuses pre-injury ronaldo did this and post injury ronaldo did only that....your playdown of ronaldos teamates from barca and inter is ridiculos...inters defensive in the leaque 1997/98 was the best in the leaque with against 27 goals i think ...this confirm that ronaldos teamates did a pretty good job...but this was not good enough to win the title..1996/97 barcelona was the best offensive team in the leaque with 102 goals...who has scored the other 68 goals,??? jokers?????the defensive with against 48 goals in 42 games was pretty good too...barcelona and inter wasnt a one man ronaldo show you suggest..after ronaldo has leaved barcelona, barca won the leaque title..funny enough...in eurocupgames with barca and inter ronaldo wasnt the unstoppable force the world ever has seen, the teams was successful but his teamates did well in this games too, post ronaldo with real madrid and all of his galicticos in 3 years has archived nothing in eurocup..wondering why real has won 2000 the cup without ronaldo and since ronaldo has joined the club real is trying to win again......ronaldos 34 goals in 64 games and müllers european record 66 goals in 74 games (inclusive gpg record )...so tell me witch player was was unstoppable?????? ronaldo never has created a topteam like müller and beckenbauer did with bayern, begining from the second division and winning 3 cup titles (2 national,1 international) in the next 2 years ..........
Unlike comparisons with Van Basten, it is not nearly as easy to prove that Ronaldo is better than Muller simply using stats. So we have to venture into qualitative analysis. It is widely accepted that the pre-injury Ronaldo was the most devastating and absolutely unstoppable striker (footballer?) ever to play. However, I would like to point to a game the post-injury Ronaldo played against Argentina in June 2004 (WCQ). If you have not seen it, please do. After that you will not even pose a question like “why is Ronaldo better?”. I absolutely loved the way Romario used to play…his phenomenal ball juggling ability inside the box, his dribbling inside and outside the penalty area, not to mention his artistic goals. However, I have to admit that even he was not capable of playing like Ronaldo at his peak (post-injury). I don’t think anyone on this poll and very few, if any, from the other polls are capable of playing like Ronaldo at his best. Muller doesn’t even come close!
I wasn't sure, that is why I had the question mark besides highest scorer. Thanks for clarifying. How many did Romario score?
If you want to enter into a qualitative analysis of Ronaldo and Van Basten, please don't. Van Basten still has a shot, however distant, statistically. Qualitatively, it is not even a contest, when you consider the two players at their peaks.
The only player I've seen to compare to him was Maradona in his pomp. The only team who scared other teams more than those players in their prime was Hungary in the 50's - but that was a full XI. In regards Ronaldo vs Muller I would say peak Ronaldo career Muller.
After seeing what teams in general, and defenders in particular, used to do to Pele, I would put him on that list as well.
I can understand why people would vote for Muller (I mean voting for him can be justified). But I am absolutely baffled as to why Van Basten is leading the poll, given that there are players on the list with better credentials, both qualitatively and quantitatively.
This is a stupid poll. The question is too general. How come Alfredo Di Stefano is not on this list or Silvio Piola for that matter. This question should have been who was the great striker during which decade, i.e: 1930's, 1960's, etc..
Thank you. This is my main argument for putting Ronaldo just over Muller. I wasn't alive when Muller was active but I don't think he inspired the general fear that pre-injury Ronaldo did. He was unstoppable in every sense and I have a feeling defenses dreaded going up against him more than they did facing Muller. It's impossible to quantify that but I'll still use it to have Ronaldo as #1 all time.
In my time machine experiment, he's taken back right after his birth. I only wanted to underline that these superior physical features of today's players are not an absolute criteria. It all depends on the era you're born in.
I don't understand how some people think that Müller at his peak was less fearsome than Ronaldo. During the early 1970s, defenders all over the world feared Müller, because he would convert the tiniest chances, score in the most ridiculous ways, virtually only needed one chance to score two goals. In most games, Müller was marked by two defenders - they would keep a close eye on him for 89 minute with Müller never getting close to scoring a goal, but in the 90th he scored. That's why Müller was feared. He looked very harmless, but he was fooling everyone. In his peak season (1971-72), Müller scored 64 goals in 47 competitive games (without needing a single penalty). That's a better record than Ronaldo's peak season (1996-97). I know that the times and teams were different, but looking at these figures, the claim that Müller was not even close to pre-injury Ronaldo looks a bit far-fetched.
müller was topscorer in europe 1970 with 38 goals in 34 games and topscorer in worldcup 1970 with 10 goals in 6 games. same year ..scary or not?? müller has scored goals in 11 straight of 12 possible games for worldcup 1970 (inclusive qualifyers) for team germany..total 19 goals (gpg 1.59) and in 8 (66%)of this 12 games he has scored the gamewinners..if that is not unstoppable ..so tell what pre injury ronaldo ever did to scare opponnents and to top this...this are not only stats this are real goals he has scored in important moments to win games.. 1969 he has scored for bayern munchis german cup win in 5 games 7 of bayerns total 8 goals to win the cup(87.5%)....in first round ,quarter final,semifinal and final he has scored all goals for bayern...what did ronaldo ever in italy or spain to top this and to scare opponents in a way müller did???in the final he has hammered in 2 leftshots...its worth to mention he is a rightfooter... in the leaque he has scored same year 1969 in 30 games 30 goals, he has scored 50% of bayerns total goals to win the german leaque....in his 4 games he has not played his team was disapointing 2:6 in points (zero win)....how much proov is this how important and dominant müller was??? müller won 3 eurochampions cups in 6 attemts with his team....ronaldo today is still trying to pass semifinals, not really scary to call him unstopple... ...so what did a called halfinvalid müller 1976 , coming out of a muskelsurgery and long serious backproblems ..he has eliminated real madrid in 2 games with 3 goals (1:1,2:1)one of his goal a long range leftshot, i never knew a called skill limited player müller was such a skillful bothfeeted goalscorer. ...he was praised from reals trainer after the game........1976/77 after scoring 5 goals in 4 games for bayerns attemt to win the eurocup 4 times in row, gerd had a backsugery and bayern was eliminated against kiew. ..intercontinantal cup win 1976 (0:0, 2:0) müller scoring the gamewinner... eurocupfinal 1974 against atheltico madrid , müller has scored 2 wonderful goals for bayerns 4:0 win.,2 other wonderful goals came from hoeness.., same year worldcupchampion, scoring gamewinners against poland and netherland, both teams with germany the top 3 teams in this worldcup....in germany he won same year with bayern the leaque title and the topscorer crown.no other players than him and 5 of his teamates in history won worldcup,eurochampionscup and national leaque in one year, semifinal german cup same year too........ . . 1972 ...gerd müller has scored 13 goals in 7 nationalteam games..inclusive 2 each in semifinal and final to win the eurochampionship, in both games he has scored the gamewinners.....he was topscorer in europe with 40 goals in 34 games and topscorer in the euros with 5 goals in 4 games..4 weeks before the eurofinal against sovietunion, he has scored 4 goals in a timespan of 16 minutes to win 4:1 against the same nation..i think soviet keeper rudakow never forget scaring gerd müller where scored against him in 2 games 6 goals...gerd müller has ended the year with a 5:1 win against swiss, scoring again 4 goals and assistst with a backheel pass netzers goal ...goal of the year in germany...is that not scaring ????if i remember correct another backheel pass from müller to netzer has hit the bar in one of this games.....this proov how limited müllers skills was.. ´18 of gerd müllers 68 nationalteam goals he has scored with headers....i cant remember how useful ronaldo skills are to score goals with headers.???.but i think this is not important ..for gerd it wasnt importand to dribble past defenders outside of the penaltyzone..... iam sure in all of his years müller never has scared anyone..this is the reason he was only the second choice for his opponents....lol.... i have forget his perfomance 1967....outstanding......next time i talk about it....
It appears we have a bunch of amateur figure skating judges in this thread "Ronaldo was the most unstoppable striker of all-time" "Qualitatively, Ronaldo is better than Muller" This appears to be the basis for Ronaldo fans picking Ronaldo over Muller. But I hate to break it to you but this is football were talking about, not gymnastics. You can have all the flamboyance in the world but it doesn't win you ******** on the football pitch. The object in football is to win. The object of a striker is to help his team win. And in doing so he has one main aim, score goals. You can claim that Ronaldo did everything on the field better than Muller(dribbling, shooting, pasing, etc.) but you can never say he was a better goal scorer. And if you look up the definition of striker it will say: "goal scorer". And there has never been a better goal scorer in the world than Gerd Muller. Also, to the claim that Ronaldo was better at his peak than Muller I find this laughable. First of all, Ronaldo's peak lasted two years. Muller's peak lasted over 15 years. I fail to see what Ronaldo did in those two years that is vastly superior to what Muller did in his 15 years. Oh, that's right, it's all the qualitative stuff. The things that are nice on the eyes but don't mean anything in the grand scheme of things. I think this is the major difference between Brazilians and the rest of the world. Brazilians are watching a different game than us. They are awarding points for style. Whereas the rest of the world abides by the rules that are written. The team that scores more goals wins the game. There are no style points written into the FIFA rule book.
Exactly, Spartak and 621...were on the money! The reason Ronaldo has been picked over Muller (ridiculous in my opinon!) is because of his ability to spin around others and how effective he was in two seasons. Ronaldo was excellent in his days with Barcelona but he never repeated that form after he left. Muller on the other hand, was consistent throughout his career....there were years where it seemed like he couldn't get any better or score more goals, but he did! I don't even think the Ronaldo and Muller comparison is as close as some are making it out to be.
This is where you overeach Spartak. When did this become a Brazil vs. Rest of World discussion? From what I can tell not all the persons backing Ronaldo in your assault on him are Brasilian; and sytle points or not, Brasil do lead the FIFA WC tally...thus it seems they do understand something about the FIFA rule book. Spartak, in the Draft of Drafts you said: Can you reconcile those two statements..
Wouldn't go there Teso. Spartak is one of the posters whose knowledge I most respect on these boards. I just believe that he has a personal issue with Ronaldo that is somewhat clouding his assessment of Ronaldo's career. Plus, so far this thread has had plenty of debate without degenerating to a WR level...yet.
Brazilian's(and Brazil lovers) do understand alot about football. But their opinions on football are different than most everybody else. This could be the reason they are the best football nation in history. But occasionally it blinds them. If most Brazlians had their way they would have a starting lineup with 11 numbers 10s. There is more to football than all the flamboyance that Brazlians exhibit. That's all I'm trying to say. I stand by that statement. You do realize that I'm only 25 years old and wasn't even alive when Muller played?
The point is that you made a qualitative statement (Ronaldo is the best in that period) after complaining about Ronaldo being picked based on similar opinions as opposed to a quantitative analysis (goals per game, total goals). You can't reconcile your view of Ronaldo with your view of how the players should be measured.
Why do you say my opinion of Ronaldo during that period is based on qualitative analysis? He scored goals at will during those years. Which is the basis of my opinion of a striker. And he was also a more confident player in those years. My opinion of him changed when he left Inter. I simply can't say a player is the best striker of all-time based on just two or three years of peak performance. I think to be classified as the best you have to be on top of your game for much longer. Because if we were to judge every player by their best two or three years everybody's picks in these polls would probably be different. Was Matthias Sammer's best two years('96 and '97) better than Franco Baresi and Franz Beckenbauer's best two years? I'm not sure, but it's damn close. But I don't think you would hear many people say Sammer was better than Baresi or Beckenbauer over the course of their careers.
But he did not score the most goals. Earlier, you stated that the basis of your opinion was goals (striker = goal scorer). Now you are adding subjective criteria - including confidence - to argue that from 96-98 Ronaldo was the best despite not scoring as many goals as other strikers.