jozy does not contain the capabilities of a target forward yet.... majority of the time when jozy get the ball he takes his man 1 v 1 (which i find an admirable quality of his game)..... Adu does in fact draw fouls but he also gets knocked off the ball as much, and legally too..... each player has something to work on..... also if you actually believe jozy and adu combined have the abilities of Ching (not inlcuding technical ability b/c both far exceed ching), why would you want 2 player to do what 1 player does himself?? imo, jozy does not hold up play as a target forward... both he and adu are technical and quality players... Ching serves his purpose for the team as well...
nobody is asking Ching to be technical? I am. The problem is he can't cause he's slow, can't dribble and can't score. Hell why don't we not ask Howard to make saves too.
ching has 4 goals this WCQ cycle, which is tied for 2nd on our pool... the scoring argument is ridiculous..... BB is asking for him to be a target forward.... he holds the ball, takes the pressure with his back to the goal, and scores when available.... the ching-bashers tend to be irrational and expect him to be a different style of forward then he is.... BMB was never OVERLY technical, but he was still successful....
This is the key here. Brian Ching is doing exactly what Bob Bradley wants from a player in that position. We can all argue about whether that's the right set of tactics for the USMNT, but that's not really an argument about Ching. So it's not even remotely a Ching versus Adu argument. Let's assume the 4-2-3-1, which is Bob's formation of choice against quality teams. This is a fine formation, the Dutch were crushing people with it during the last Euro's. In fact it's the formation du jour right now for European clubs in important matches. Portugal plays it. You'll see France play it. England has played it a lot, because they often just play Rooney alone up top. Maybe they wouldn't if they ever had any other strikers. Anyway.......... With that formation Bob's lineup of choice recently has been: ------------Ching----- Beasley----Donovan----Dempsey Unfortunately for Freddy, he's most suited to play the role currently occupied by the greatest field player ever to suit up for the national team (just my opinion). And the one player in the squad that does really have a lot of technical ability. I'm talking about Landon Donovan here. So the argument here is: Ching v Altidore v Cooper Donovan v Adu Personally, I'm a big fan of the Christmas tree formation but Bob's only used it once (of course we violently molested El Salvador in the last Gold Cup when we did). My Gold Cup 2012 lineup after I'm appointed coach ----------Altidore----- -------Adu----Donovan--- --Torres----Bradley---Szetela Spector--Gooch--Parkhurst--Wynne -----------Howard---------- Oh....yes. That's hot.
If Ching was sooooo great in "his" qualities that he brings to the table..That neither Adu or Altidore combined have.......then he would be sharing his qualities on the fields of Villareal or Monaco or somewhere in europe...not Houstan Dynamo.....lets not get too ahead of ourselves.......Ching was slowly sliding down on the depth charts and then all of sudden he does good against a Sweden "C" team............and certain people were like Ching deserves to start now after he outplayed a reserve defender from some team in Scandanavia........ At the expense of people downplaying Adu's and Altidore's outstanding play on this team, some people like to overestimate others.....
i agree that does make a HUGE difference.... if Ching has someone to work off his target forward capabilities, he could hold his own in ratings... but if hes by himself, i would agree its HIGHLY likely he'd be considered the worst (tho one could argue not solely based on his performance per say)
you've completely twisted my point i was making ( the one you bolded) you claimed that jozy is capable of holding onto the ball, and Adu is capable of drawing the fouls... i was merely pointing out why have 2 players do the job that 1 already does?? i do not build Ching any higher then what he is... i tend to defend him more b/c others are quick to attack his game without thinking things through... Jozy and Adu are very talented and technical players, however, neither can completely do what BB is asking Ching to do.... Ching will NEVER be as technical as either Jozy or Adu, nor will he EVER be anywhere close.... but thats not what is being asked, nor is it his game.... you cannot expect Adu to be a target forward, why do you expect Ching to be a techincal forward (ie. Jozy and Adu)??? Dempsey is the closest thing to a mix.... Technical and able to play a target forward (and has done so in the past).... "then he would be sharing his qualities on the fields of Villareal or Monaco or somewhere in europe...not Houstan Dynamo" neither jozy nor adu share the fields of Villareal nor Monaco (often).... Jozy got limited PT even with injured forwards and Adu rarely sees PT of any sort.... this is NOT a shot at either player, for im fully aware of both players abroad and the delimas they face, please dont break this statement down any.... its great they are over there, but to use this as leverage seems folly.... my whole point is that Ching possesses talents that Jozy & Adu cannot duplicate solely.... and i am not using this as an argument to keep Ching in the lineup... simple bashing of Ching tends to be irrational and turning a blinds eye to his attributes, even if you dont appriciate them
So then your basicaly summing up that this system the coach is running is not going to maximize our potential...... If Ching is in the lineup to give.....BB what he needs at the expense of two players who are far more talented...who can get the job done in a greater way through the qualities "they" have......then im worried.....
the coach chooses the tactics.... his formation and tactics suggest he prefers to have a target forward, a role that neither Jozy nor Adu are currently available for.... Jozy may in fact turn into a target forward, but assuming he remains at Villareal, it seems he'll remain more of a technical forward available to run off of a target forward (what he did with NJRB).... Adu will NEVER be a target forward.... his best option is that of a SS... or possibly a AM..... You may disagree with BB's tactics, but they've gotten results... this is a point everyone who argues against his tactics seem to ignore.... BB has pointed out MANY times he's fully aware of what Jozy and Adu bring to the table, but he feel they have to earn the spots rather then be gift wrapped... Jozy has obviously earned a starting spot in the next game (and id be surprised if BB actually changes the Starting XI that much).... Adu will get his chance, and it will be up to him to make the difference.... in long , you may disagree with BB's tactics and player choice, but they are his to make and to accept the consequences... if he flames out in 2010, id highly expect him out of office, and USSF venturing to pick a new coach....
Ching is pretty good actually. He has shown that he is capable of plays like those you see top players make. When exactly did he slide off the depth chart? Although I would rather see Jozy and Adu up top more than Ching, there is no denying that the guy is a horse with some good skills. When he is on he is an excellent opportunistic finisher as well. He has made some big plays for us to set up goals lately. I think a big key if we are going to be successful in 2010 is if Ching can score a few cheap goals for us. I think Freddy is a better player, but BB's system makes no room for him. His system is to make room for two D-mids, which means we need a big target guy to fill the space up top apparently. All Freddy has done is impress me whenever he plays... I don't see how all these coaches can be so obtuse. There are ten other guys out there playing with him, but he is always under a microscope, and not just because he is so small. He could score a hat and they would find twenty things he did wrong. I don't recall him ever claiming he was the best player in the world, so why is he held to that standard? No one will even give him a chance to prove how good he really is. It is almost like if he fails they will look bad for playing him and if he succeeds they will look bad for not playing him for so long. Just start him as close to the goal as possible and see what happens. I am pretty sure he will prove to be impossible to contain for 90 minutes, especially with Jozy running around up there with him. They took Brazil apart, which no US players have done ever, at any level.
the pairing has done well on the nats when partnered, however, a game's result in the youth level does not equate the same success at the national level... i am certain we'll see the pairing again as the Hex continues... if the points keep coming, and we win a spot early, expect to see alot of the duo....
I understand the point you are trying to make here. Talented players make national teams, even at young ages. Sure, this is correct. But the same thing is also undeniably true of Adu, who has a dozen Caps already at age 19 and made his US Senior debut just as young as Pato, Messi, Rooney, or Ronaldo. The US coaches are clearly recognizing Adu's talent by calling him in frequently. As I mentioned several times before, Adu had 14 appearances in a Senior or U23/Olympic uniform in 2008, more than any US player in the whole US system. Nobody is ignoring Adu. He is being promoted and boosted by the US National Team coaches, and at a pace that is equal to or better than the pace set by Pato, Messi, Rooney, or Ronaldo. Let's also look a bit deeper at the comparisons to Pato, Messi, Rooney, or Ronaldo. Adu: Age 19, has 20 almost entirely sub appearances for Benfica and Monaco during 20+ months in Europe (averaging less than 1 sub appearance per month during his whole Euro career!). 2 goals. Pato: At age 19, 55 Serie A appearances and 29 goals, almost entirely with Milan. Messi: at age 19, 50 appearances for Barcelona and 21 goals. Rooney: by age 18, 67 appearances for Everton in Premiership and 15 goals. At age 19 a 25 million Pound transfer to Man U and many more appearances and goals. C. Ronaldo: by age 19 about 50 games for Man U and at least 6 Premiership goals (I couldn't quickly find the specific number through age 19). So, at the same point in each of their careers, Pato, Messi, Rooney, and Ronaldo were already proven, regular players for the top teams in elite professional leagues. They were proving it day in and day out at the very highest levels of soccer on the planet. So, yes, they were ready for international play with their senior teams because they were all already thriving at levels of club play that usually EXCEED international play (Barcelona, Man U, Milan). This simply cannot be said about Adu, a minor reserve player for far weaker clubs over the last 20+ months. Adu hasn't proven he is ready they way your other example young players clearly and without a doubt have shown they were ready. And yet, Bob Bradley keeps calling this minor reserve player into the Senior National Team, over and over again. BB must see something in Adu, because BB is playing favorites and promoting him far above anything his club pedigree or professional experience would suggest.
And boy is it sad, that this minor reserve player seems to be our best performer against World Class teams..........
I appreciate your efforts on my behalf! The point I'm trying to make isn't Adu-specific and was in response to someone who said that age and experience was valued in and of itself. My point was that the best player should play -- that age and experience could make up for skill and ability, but at the end the coach should weigh each players strengths and weaknesses and go with the better player. For England. For Portugal. For the US. For other countries, it's rare that the greater skill and ability would be with the younger players -- which is why Rooney and Ronaldo and Messi and Pato stand out. For the US, the problem may be that we are artificially keeping less effective players on the field so we don't have a team of U23s facing the rest of the world.
And that's why he keeps getting called into national team camps by Bob Bradley. We're arguing in circles here. Nobody's arguing that Adu isn't a highly talented player with tons of potential. He's going to get a lot of opportunities this summer to cement a place on our WC roster. But it's hard for Bob to actually use him in hex games right now over somebody like Donovan.............if he never plays club football. We're not talking about left back here, where a guy like Pearce can not play for two years and still get call-ups. We have few options there. Adu is competing with Donovan right now for playing time (if we stick with Bob's favored 4-2-3-1 formation), and that's a hard battle for him to win. Perhaps if Bob determines that he wants to move Beasley to left back and Donovan to left mid, that would open up a slot for Adu in the middle. We might see that happen very shortly. And when we do, Freddy's gotta take advantage of the opportunity like Kljestan did against Sweden. If he plays like Robbie Rogers of Charlie Davies did against Sweden (in other words....disappointing), he'll be left out. I could see Adu playing in both the Confederations Cup and the Gold Cup, especially since I think Benfica doesn't really want him. Hell, he could even play in the U-20 world cup as well. Plenty of chances for him to shine this summer.
we are arguing in circles, but the difference between our arguments and theirs is they want him starting now, while we are standing firm that he needs to earn his spot & he'll have his opportunities this year....
Correct. There is a small, but very vocal number of Adu fans who want him starting NOW, and who feel that the US coaches have neglected him. Yet: * Adu has more Caps at age 19 than Donovan or Beasley had, arguably more Caps than any US player ever at the same age and still a long 14 months away from the next World Cup. * Adu may be the all-time international leader in Caps for teenagers who have been club reserve players for nearly 2 years. I challenge the hyper-Adu fans to find any teens on the planet, or in the history of international soccer, who had 12 Caps while averaging 1 appearance PER MONTH for their club teams at age 18/19. This just doesn't happen, anywhere, on any team, for any coach. I am an Adu fan. I think he will have a very good, possibly special, US career. But I am patient enough to understand that it doesn' have to all happen right now. The reality is that the US coaching staff has promoted and favored Adu beyond anything that is common in international soccer. Adu fans should actually be singing BB's praise at every turn, because BB is promoting Adu in a way that no other international bench-reserve teen has ever been promoted.
There is a difference, a big difference, with friendlies and youth int'l matches with sr team matches that matter. Particularly in physical intensity. I watched Inter's 18 yr old Mario Balotelli yesterday play against Juventus. Great size, pace and burst, strength, audacious skill and a level of confidence that probably is best described as pure arrogance (not a bad thing for strikers, but Super Mario can make Ibrahimovic look like a modest schoolboy in comparison). Balotelli was obviously a handful of a player for the Juventus defense. But despite having the physique of an adult, his youth showed through as the game went on. Ibra probably did 3x the work that Balotelli did up top. Ibra was the target for all long balls and held the ball up. Incredible to see a player of Ibra's talent doing the dirty work. Towards the end of the first half, Balotelli failed to make runs two times to support Ibra who was holding up the ball and holding off defenders, leaving him stranded. These were obvious runs to everyone except apparently Super Mario. The explanation to this became obvious as soon as the second half started. Balotelli was already gassed. I thought for sure Mourinho would take him out at 50 minutes, then 55 minutes, then 60 minutes. As an example, there was a long flighted pass (about 50 m) to Mario out on the wing. Mario very casually takes a couple steps back and when he realizes the ball is going to go over his head, he stops, bends forward and volleys it with his heel to a team mate. It made for very interesting replay, but it was nothing more than a lazy play with skill and some luck thrown in. He had more than enough time to take another two steps back and bring the ball down with his chest. It just looked like he couldn't be bothered to move. Mourinho keeps him in. There is one point where Mario is holding off 4 Juve defenders in the box before sliding the ball off to Ibra. Impressive how he was able to keep the ball with 4 defenders on him but he should have dished it off earlier when there were only 3 defenders on him as it allowed Juve to get back and deny Ibra space when he did get the ball. Then, Mario scores a goal at 64 minutes. Ibra and particularly, Suntari did a ton of work to obtain the ball and start a counter. Mario runs on the far side of the field and the ball is delivered to him where he cooly slots home from about 14 m's. About 1 minute after the goal, Mario, Suntari and another Inter player are playing close quarter keep away near the touch line. Juve's Tiago takes offense and lashes out at Mario resulting in a straight red card. Immediately after that, Mourinho subs out Mario. After that, I think I came to understand why Mourinho kept in Mario even while obviously gassed. The kid is so arrogant that he wasn't phased at all that they were playing at Juventus so when presented with an opportunity to score, he does as calmly as at training. The match was high paced and very physical. Mario's pace is outstanding and is built like a NFL running back so he can't be physically intimidated. He pissed off Juve so much with his arrogance that they wound up playing with 10 when Tiago, couldn't resist from taking a shot at him. Immediately after the red card, Mourinho takes Balotelli off - probably thinking that he has maxed out everything he could get. By that point, not only was Juve pissed off at Balotelli, Ibra was also showing frustration at Mario's lack of work and decision making on and off of the ball. What does this have to do with our teenagers? Certainly there are exceptions, but I think it is an example of how many teenagers have not yet developed the endurance needed to keep up with the adult game for even 60 minutes. Their maturity with decision making and team responsibility is not yet fully formed. However, their skills and brashness can make a difference at the right moments and that is why I think Mourinho had Mario in there. I can easily see Jozy as analagous to Mario as the big, fast striker who will definitely play a part with the USMNT. I just don't know if 19 yr old Adu is ready for the physical demands of these kind of matches when the real bullets are flying. At 22, it could be a totally different picture.
Good post. Although I disagree with the bolded part above. Adu did took advantage of the opportunities Bob gave him much more so than Kljestan. Kljestan did well against Sweden C team while Adu did well against England, Spain, and Argentina A teams.
exactly. the kid plays circles around several of the players in front of him especially Ching who can only play against mls and bad Concacaf teams. I'm beginning to hope Ching plays all the way through the world Cup and i mean with the same mediorce performers we normally play. like Heath Pearce, And sorry, one of my old favs Beasley? I kinda would love to see that typical bob bradley team go to the cup and play against the top teams and see whose's right him or me. How about he's brings back Nate Jacqua too. And not any of this typical i hope we get an easy group crap. I mean a real group like we had last Cup. If Bradley's style of football is so good and he's Ching and some of these guys are great let's see if we can get to the semis with them.