The FC Dallas Thread

That is unfortunate to read about Pax. It's not related to his hernia but instead an abdomen issue in his muscle wall. I really hope he doesn't turn into the type of player that is hurt almost half the season every year. It is a skill to be healthy and if he can't figure that out, he won't be the force we need on the USMNT and most likely will never go to Europe.

What makes one player more injury prine than another? Genetics, diet, body size, league where they play? Weston and Pulisic are also injured, as is Weah so it happens everywhere. Maybe just luck.

 

Hearing Nico Carrerra has left FCD. That is two of their top pro prospects in Johnathan Gomez and now Nico in the last few months. Hearing two more are going on trial in the next month so more names to come more than likely. If they don't sign Tanner they have missed out on quite a few players.

 

Offers are rarely made public. It is a fall back by FCD supporters to suggest there is no interest in Cannon and that is why he should just sign his career away to FCD.

Of course, last night Dan Hunt said they are trying to sign Cannon to a new deal amid, "large European interest".

As usual, what some here keep saying is, "no concrete offers", it now turns out that FCD has had offers from EPL and ECL teams in November and probably since.

There have been many offers for Cannon. FCD is trying to get him to become an MLS lifer for a large raise. Can MLS teams not give one year extensions? Why is every contract 3+2? They should have given Cannon a large raise last year, converted his option to a contract year, added 6 months to a year to the contract, and then looked to sell him to where he wants to go.

As predicted, players behind him in the pipeline watch all this and are avoiding signing with FCD.

 

Depending on how you look at this, it is either good news or bad news. For true supporters of FCD it is never good to lose a prospect, but for those that want to see growth and improvement overall in US Soccer, this is great news.

Without sounding too crass, I hope more prospects leave MLS clubs in the same fashion that Gomez, Carerra, Mendez and Llanez have. It will eventually force MLS to look at their rules and remove some of the idiotic restrictions they have in place. While the focus will be on FC Dallas losing a local player, we can't lose sight of the bigger picture, and that is MLS losing a young YNT player.

Garber can preach about being a selling league all day long, but if the league can't find a way to get young YNT players into the league, it will never be what he wants it to be. These are the types of players that will hold value in the market and now they are walking away for nothing but TC and SP. Instead of trying to grow the league with young domestic players, promoting them and selling them on to bigger leagues, MLS continues to try and build a league around International players at the end of their careers and many of them are mediocre.

If you ask me, this is a step in the right direction and will hopefully force change.

 

I see it as a really good move for Nico and the USMNT. If he gets to Germany young and builds his way up to a starting center back in a top five Bundesliga team, he will bring experience, ability and toughness to the senior National Team. If he were to stay at FCD for his career and be an MLS all star center back, he is just another guy.

Will be interesting if Weston, Nico and Johnathan all wind up as big players on the Senior National team one day after leaving FCD for Europe free and at a young age.

The Reggie Cannon deal is the most interesting aspect of this. I wonder if Reggie is talking to these young guys. I wonder if they know what his real situation is ( not sure anyone else does). If they see Hunt now saying they want to sign Reggie to a large deal do they see that as good or as FCD getting their hooks into him for life and killing any chance to go overseas?

Best case for FCD is to convince Reggie to sign, make him the highest paid right back in the league and then let him go this summer to Europe. Sign and move on should be their motto. Forcing guys out for free is not a good look.

 

If you look at reports of the new U22 Initiative that was included in the CBA, Garber's, "Selling League" was never meant for Americans.

The new initiative was a TAM like money pool to sign U22 foreign players to then sell later. 3 per team.

Americans, to MLS brass, are roster filler. Just think of the numbers: 3 DPs, 6-10 TAM players, 3 U22 foreigners, that is 12-16 roster spots, most of which couldn't be Americans. The CBA maybe lets Americans in there. But you have to break into the team over guys already on those deals.

 

I fail to see why Dallas should be expected to give Cannon a raise just for the privilege of selling him in the summer, which they could do anyway.

That's not to say Dallas couldn't be more proactive in selling players -- they should do that -- but a lot of posters seem to expect that FCD should not act like a business, which it is. Giving away money and getting nothing in return is rather silly.

(I'm also a bit confused as to why "forcing" Cannon to leave on a free is that much of an imposition. Cannon would presumably have way more options if a team doesn't have to pay a transfer fee to get him. If Cannon leaves on a free, that's FCD's problem -- and that's if FCD values the transfer fee more than his year of play.)

 

Which is why I believe we will start seeing more and more of these types of cases.

 

Part of it is optics for all the guys coming behind him. You sign him to a 700K deal and pay very little of it by this summer, then sell him. This assumes he does have the interest Dan Hunt appears to say he has from Europe and these teams are willing to pay. If they want him only if he is on an 80K deal then you just move along as is.

This shows you care about the guys that have been loyal soldiers and you will work to help them get overseas as well as treat them very well. Having him continue to play on 80K a year as perhaps the best right back in the US will only continue the talks that FCD doesn't know what they are doing with players and they will lose another one for free...ala Weston.....and now many of their top youth prospects. If the rumor is true, you just lost a pro prospect center back that played in the U17 World Cup and couldn't keep one of the best 03 prospects in the country in Gomez.

 

I completely disagree. If FCD was to give Cannon the raise he deserves, it would come along with additional years on a contract. The more years he is away from his contract running out the more value he holds on the transfer market.

The business decision isn't necessarily around whether or not to give him a raise. He has completely earned whatever raise he gets up to and including being the leagues highest paid right back. As a business, you have to show your employees that their is a reward for great performance.

The business decision should be built around a couple of things...a) Cannon's desire to move to Europe b) his market value as perceived by clubs they may have already spoken to c) genuine interest of clubs outside of the US.

Its really simple math. FCD can let his deal run out while picking up the options, spend $165k (his $82k salary times 2 years) and then have him move for free. They would get 2 years of great RB play that would cost them minimal money. Or, the "better" business decision would be to sign him at wages he has earned (lets use $600k as an example), actively work with him, his agent and any International suitors to get a deal done. If they can sell him in the summer for $3M (just an example), they would be ahead $2.7M (transfer price minus prorated $600k salary). If they were able to negotiate any sell on % than that would just be an added bonus.

This is a pretty easy decision to make and the second scenario is both beneficial to the club and the player. There may be less risk in not giving him a raise and selling him in the summer, but what message does that send to future Academy players or any other young player that FCD may want to sign? Part of running a business is treating your employees fairly, and at the moment they are perceived of not doing that.

 

I've been banging this drum for years now. I have heard (no concrete evidence) that MLS won't even entertain a release clause. If this is true, the only recourse is for players to choose not to sign and roll the dice elsewhere. Unfortunately, it is going to take more than a few players to go this route before the league will be forced to change their stance. Right now, the league holds the leverage because in most cases, players are turning down deals without having any other offers in hand.

My true hope is that we begin to see more Scally situations, where a European club knows a kid can't come over for another year or so, but they don't want to lose the prospect. Let the MLS club and European club reach a deal on wage and transfer and get the kid signed so he has a place to play while waiting for his 18th birthday.

I think the release clause needs to be included for HG players and those at a MNT level that have desires to move abroad. I would be OK with not having a release clause on a HG deal if the option years were not included and the deal was 24-36 months in length.

 

Playing last and this year on $80K waiting to become a free agent (but not one in his home country) while avoiding injury is a lot of stress. Losing out on a $5 MM transfer/sell-on over $200K is a strange business decision. FCD is doing bad business by letting him leave for free. They are acting like a part of a monopoly when they would rather him leave for free than sign a contract for less than 5 years.

There is a reason why soccer teams the world over re-do a kid's contract immediately when he establishes himself as a starter.

 

For all the talk about FCD, they have an atrocious track record of selling players upwards in the global pyramid.

Even Fabian Castillo had to essentially fly to Turkey and tell them I'm not returning and force their hand.

In general, the league has a problem on its hands and it goes well past FCD. The global landscape has changed and our YNTs are getting scouted and receiving offers well beyond what we've seen historically. Compound it with the successes of Pulisic, McKennie, Sargent, hopefully Weah and now Reyna. The next wave isn't far off. There's massive competition of opportunity for our top youth and MLS is still basing its system on the old model and landscape.

The competition for MLS isn't to prove it can sell a young American player to Europe, which it generally fails at doing. The competition for MLS is to prove it can develop and sell a young American to Europe where the player can play and earn in a top league on the global curve which Pulisic, McKennie, Sargent, Reyna, etc are on.

Adams is the recent exception but I'm not even sure that happens without the unusual parent/sister club relationship.

But while selling to a top league and that player hitting the ground running is a step MLS really hasn't taken, it's often mistaken for the step MLS is competing against now. That is wrong. The competition has taken the situation a few steps further. The new barometer is to be playing in the Bund as a teen and earning Bund wages as a teen. Next up might be Llanez with Wolfsburg. And while not the Bund it could be Ledezma with PSV. All the above are what our top YNTers, their families and scouts are looking at. Not whether or not an MLS team might sell you to a top league by 22. At that point you're years behind others both in development and earnings.

Cannon also must be considering someone like Dest, who while not American developed is playing UCL ball and might be off the Bayern this summer.

Whatever it is Garber and his cronies think, the bottom line is more yanks are breaking into top leagues per year than are being sold to top leagues and breaking in per year. So if you're elite and full of confidence, which route will you take until the numbers change?

 

Well, Adams and Davies in the last couple of years. I get that Davies is Canadian, but he was sold from a Canadian team to Bayern and both he and Adams are playing at Champions League level.

So MLS absolutely can develop that player.

(An aside - in the past year, MLS has sold Davies, Adams, Durkin, Steffen, Scally and Richards (though he may be a bit longer back. To my knowledge, there's Cannon and Long who have wanted to be sold but haven't. That doesn't seem a terrible ratio here.)

I'd also point to the level of overall young talent in MLS -- it's only Americans who seem to have an issue with being 19-20 and in MLS. If the US pool had players like Diego Rossi or Milton Valenzuela, we'd be estatic.

Which gets me to the second point: the absolute elite prospects that are elite at age 16 or 18 absolutely should go to a strong developmental team in Europe as long as it works for them personally. I don't think it is a travesty if they had stayed in MLS a year or two, but getting courted by Dortmund is like getting into Harvard. You just kind of have to go unless you have family reasons not to. And then you still kind of have to go.

Europe should develop more elite talent, but our elite talent is going to (and should) largely choose to go to Europe young. It's a question for MLS to see if they can monetize the time spent better in their academies, but comparing pure numbers of the very best should always skew to Europe.

What MLS should provide is a strong pathway for development for the next rung down, later bloomers, and the absolute elite who can't go over at 16 and have a good thing going. That doesn't mean these players have less potential -- see Davies and Adams.

It's absolutely proven that players can develop into very strong players in MLS. It doesn't mean signing with MLS is always the right decision. But it also means that signing with MLS is not some devastating problem like so many people portray.

If you start using player development as the metric, and stop making "playing Europe" as an end goal, things like a lot different.

People also have to stop acting like an MLS team not signing a top prospect is some kind of massive failure. It's going to happen. This is, and should be, a win some/lose some kind of thing.

And signing with an MLS team is not a disaster for development. Adams, Davies, Pomykal, Ferreira, Sands, etc. Heck, Parks, Steffen and Hyndman prove there's even a second chance path when Europe fails to give you a chance.

The whole topic just seems to be handled in such a talk radio sort of way.

 

So does FC Dallas actually, but let's not let that get in the way of a good rant.
I mean they just broke their club transfer record last summer.

Just because Pax and Ferreira just signed new long-term extensions, doesn't mean they won't be sold if reasonable transfer offers are received. Does anybody have evidence that reasonable transfer offers have been received for those two? No, they don't.

As far as the Reggie Cannon thing goes, it'll get resolved shortly. There really is nothing unusual about that case. Its a young player at the point in his contract at which a decision needs to be made. According to reports yesterday, the club and the player/agent are in discussions.

The FCD GM used to hold the same position with Santos and Gremio. He knows more than any of us how this game is played. He sold Neymar for Pete's sake.

 

didnt the time crunch and suspect physical doom this transfer and it will likely be revisited for different money in the summer?

 

We've seen it over and over.

MLS receives lowball offers, MLS rejects lowball offers...……...…...BigSoccer freaks the hell out...………..followed shortly thereafter by said player getting sold for significantly more.

Best example? Clint Dempsey.

In the Cannon case, we don't even have evidence of an actual offer from Europe. And yet folks are still over-reacting.

Reggie Cannon is under contract thru NEXT year. FCD doesn't actually have to do a damn thing if they don't want to. And yet it sure seems leadership is trying to get something done.

The Hunt brothers have been talking about it. If Clark Hunt is talking about it, you know they're prioritizing it. Cuz he pays no attention to FCD.

Clark Hunt doubled down on a new deal for Reggie Cannon today.

When asked by @dfwsportsguy93
how big of a priority extending Reggie is, Dan replied "Reggie’s certainly a key priority for us. Hopefully we’ll get that done here in the next few weeks.

— 3rd Degree (@3rdDegreeNet) February 21, 2020

 

The 3rd Degree podcast guys suggested that it was possible that Cannon would sign a new contract that would pay him a lot more money, but not add any years.

That would certainly be unusual. I think we've all been assuming that a new contract would come with a raise and more years (as they almost always do!).

If so, I guess it would be a sign that FC Dallas wants to keep Cannon happy for another transfer window or two. Would there be an understanding that they'd look to sell Cannon in the summer or winter windows? Who knows?

It would also open up a slot on FCD's supplemental roster for another HG signing.

 

initial position of more money for the same time period definitely establishing some space for compromise

 

Dempsey has nothing to due with the current era. And Garber himself has said MLS has for years not interfered with players transfers.

I don't really care what Cannon and FCD do. But it's a reality FCD has a terrible track record of selling Americans to top leagues. It's a reality MLS due to its own system is losing the top young Americans to clubs in top leagues. It's a reality MLS is not blocking deals anymore. And it's a reality MLS's system heavily favors foreigners over Americans.

Whether FCD sells Cannon or not is of little concern to me. They are a small time team with little local support and a nearly non existent track record of moving American 1st teamers to top leagues. The only American 1st teamer they've ever sold for 1M+ is Brek Shea. They have an academy -------> Europe pipeline. Not an academy -------> 1st team --------> Europe pipeline.

Two entirely different things.

At this point FCD isn't worth the discussion they generate. The closest thing MLS has to a selling club for Americans is NYRB as someone else referenced.

 

I think you are pretty on point with this. I would add that the two clubs that have at least haven’t been opposed to selling young Americans are NYRB and NYCFC. We can’t forget that these two clubs have a bigger pyramid within their overall organization. When most MLS clubs pyramids stop at the actual MLS team, NYRB has at least two levels (as they see it) above their MLS team.

In reality I view Adams transfer more of a promotion than I do a transfer.