The fall of Jose: specialist in failure

Discussion in 'Portugal' started by prodigal_mind, Mar 10, 2020.

  1. SF19

    SF19 Member

    Jun 8, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    Greece
    His tactics and style might not suit everyone, but his results speak for himself. The past four games after a tough Christmas schedule may not suggest so, but the 6-1 win over Manchester United earlier in the season does. He still has a Midas touch.

    What he achieved with Porto, with a club of that standing, might never be replicated again. I don't even think Inter will ever win another Champions League. Those successes put Mourinho in the company of managers like Bela Guttmann and Helenio Herrera. Maybe he won't get the level of respect in England reserved for the likes of Paisley, Busby, or Ferguson or in Spain for managers like Munoz and Cruyff, but he's still very respected in England and Spain for that matter.
     
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  2. SCP_16

    SCP_16 Member+

    Aug 8, 2004
    Bay Area
    Club:
    Sporting CP Lisbon
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal

    Has anyone won a UEFA Cup and Champions League with a smaller club in consecutive years during an era where money dominates everything?
     
  3. eurodad

    eurodad Member

    Mar 15, 2005
    Brampton
    Well, not to take any credit away from Porto but incredible how the stars lined up perfectly for Porto that year. Lets see who they played after the group stage

    Quater Finals Lyon
    Semi Finals Dep. La Courna
    Finals Monaco

    Won the cup with out going through any top team from England, Spain or Italy. That also will never happen again.
    Jose is as good as his players and he has a vary short life span with the players because he drives everyone nuts.
     
  4. SCP_16

    SCP_16 Member+

    Aug 8, 2004
    Bay Area
    Club:
    Sporting CP Lisbon
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal

    LOL you can't be serious....

    Their group consisted of Madrid and Marseille. They went on to knock out Manchester United (how convenient of you to leave that out), then knocked out a Lyon team that would eventually win 7 consecutive titles and had players like Essien, Juninho, Malouda, Diarra, Govou, etc. They went on to face a Deportivo team that had knocked out Juventus and Milan, the latter of which required them to come back from a 4-1 aggregate deficit in the second leg. Monaco had also knocked out Madrid and Chelsea.

    They also won the UEFA Cup the year prior.

    So yea, weak argument. Try harder.
     
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  5. eurodad

    eurodad Member

    Mar 15, 2005
    Brampton
    It was a year up upsets . Thus Monaco beating Madrid. The likes of Lacourna making it to the semi finals . Etc What happened that year will never happen no matter what coach. That era has died . That was the point I was trying to make, so take a calmont or something.
     
  6. SCP_16

    SCP_16 Member+

    Aug 8, 2004
    Bay Area
    Club:
    Sporting CP Lisbon
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal

    Calmont? Amazing, you must have some special power to evaluate my mood through a web forum.

    Only thing I did was negate your argument since it was delusional.

    Call it the year of upsets, doesn't really matter. We all know soccer is much different now since big money is being thrown around everywhere, which it makes it virtually impossible for smaller clubs to compete anymore.

    Still doesn't minimize Mourinho's or Porto's accomplishments.

    They won the UEFA Cup the year prior. Was that also a year of upsets?
     
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  7. eurodad

    eurodad Member

    Mar 15, 2005
    Brampton
    What does UEFA got to do with Champions League? This was a comment on Jose coaching and that something like that Porto year will never happen again. Jose won it once more despite coaching some pretty impressive teams after Inter. He wears thin on people in quick time . Ok now breath...... you are going to be ok .
     
  8. SCP_16

    SCP_16 Member+

    Aug 8, 2004
    Bay Area
    Club:
    Sporting CP Lisbon
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    Don't take this the wrong way, but, do you have ADHD? Your argument was that Porto caught lightning in a bottle and you tried to minimize Jose's accomplishments. You're conclusion is the stars lined up perfectly for Porto, referencing their Champions League win (which is a UEFA tournament). You left out the fact that they won a major European title the year before as well (UEFA Cup, which is the second biggest European club tournament), and you also conveniently left out other details that lead to their accomplishments (knocking out Man U, and very solid Lyon, Deportivo & Monaco sides). Which part are you not understanding?

    I get that smaller teams can't compete in these type of tournaments anymore, but that doesn't take anything away from what Mourinho did with Porto.

    Also, trying to insinuate that I'm flustered simply because I'm proving your entire argument to be some of the stupidest shit anyone has ever read on the internet is a little much.
     
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  9. eurodad

    eurodad Member

    Mar 15, 2005
    Brampton
    Ya you are flustered, you always go to insulting when you get flustered. Lol you are so easy to get going. I was never a big fan of Jose. Good coach yes but destroyed teams too. His act has worn thin. Just having some fun with you dude. Had a little too much wine with my meal and went at it. How I truly see it ?
    Porto great accomplishment but even second coming of Christ or Jose will have that happen again unfortunately.

    Jose did well with Porto, Inter and Chelsea but slowed from there. Ask Ronaldo how he felt about being coached by Jose. Lol
     
  10. SCP_16

    SCP_16 Member+

    Aug 8, 2004
    Bay Area
    Club:
    Sporting CP Lisbon
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal

    Not exactly, just can spot an inaccurate argument when I see it lol, but I agree about Mourinho in TODAY'S game. I think, much like other sports, everything is predicated on offense and scoring as much as possible, and that is not Mourinho's game. He is much more defensive-minded, which doesn't work with the contemporary game.

    I knew once he blew that point lead with Tottenham, he would not be able to get back to first place.
     
  11. theFOOTBALLlover

    FC Porto, SC Freamunde & Fraser Park FC
    Jan 17, 2015
    Sydney
    I don't always agree with you @SCP_16 but I do in this instance. @eurodad conveniently left out some info on our UCL run in 2004.

    I just want to add that for those clubs like Lyon, Deportivo, Monaco, etc - they got there because they were better than Madrid, Barcelona and any other big club you want to name. Don't disrespect them just because they aren't perceived as a big club.
     
  12. prodigal_mind

    prodigal_mind Member

    Cristiano Ronaldo
    Portugal
    Jul 3, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    One of the worst man utd teams under fergusons reign.....AND still they required a massive robbery to win that game.

     
  13. eurodad

    eurodad Member

    Mar 15, 2005
    Brampton

    Ok first of all, Im a Benfica fan so even if I respected what Porto accomplished (I did ) Im not going to admit this in a public forum...

    Jose coached Porto who I dont respect ( ya I do respect both Porto and Jose) so there is no way Im going to admit respect in a public space.

    Next you guys will want me to say something nice about Sporting ? lol
     
  14. SCP_16

    SCP_16 Member+

    Aug 8, 2004
    Bay Area
    Club:
    Sporting CP Lisbon
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal

    Fair enough, still a relatively solid Man U squad, and still knocked out the rest of the teams and won two consecutive major European competitions.
     
  15. theFOOTBALLlover

    FC Porto, SC Freamunde & Fraser Park FC
    Jan 17, 2015
    Sydney
    That’s ridiculous.

    If Benfica or Sporting do something well, I’ll happily admit it. Makes no sense to deny the truth just because I don’t support those clubs.
     
  16. prodigal_mind

    prodigal_mind Member

    Cristiano Ronaldo
    Portugal
    Jul 3, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    The juve team benfica beat in Europa league under Jorge Jesus was better than any team porto faced in that cl run
     
  17. theFOOTBALLlover

    FC Porto, SC Freamunde & Fraser Park FC
    Jan 17, 2015
    Sydney
     
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  18. prodigal_mind

    prodigal_mind Member

    Cristiano Ronaldo
    Portugal
    Jul 3, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    Prime bonucci chiellini at the back. Pirlo, marchisio, Vidal, Tevez, Pogba. That’s clearly better than Lyon, Monaco and deportivo. What a performance that was. I’m going to watch both those games again to admire it
     
  19. theFOOTBALLlover

    FC Porto, SC Freamunde & Fraser Park FC
    Jan 17, 2015
    Sydney


    I’ll watch Porto actually lifting the UCL in 2004.
     
  20. eurodad

    eurodad Member

    Mar 15, 2005
    Brampton
    #45 eurodad, Jan 13, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021
    I guess you missed the subtle humour In my post
     
  21. SF19

    SF19 Member

    Jun 8, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    Greece
    Maybe there is an argument that Porto were handed an easier route to win the UCL. United at the time were in a rough patch. They lost to Manchester City 4-1 the game after United went out of the UCL to Porto.

    But Real Madrid and Barcelona weren't performing very well at that time either. Valencia had won La Liga that season.

    Schalke convincingly won the Bundesliga, beating out Bayern.

    Other than Milan, none of the traditional European heavyweights had strong seasons and Milan blew a three-goal advantage against Deportivo. They repeated that mess against Liverpool in the 2005 final.

    Maybe Arsenal or Milan could have beaten Porto out that season, maybe, but I think the way Porto played, they could have beaten anyone.
     
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  22. prodigal_mind

    prodigal_mind Member

    Cristiano Ronaldo
    Portugal
    Jul 3, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    The specia ONE with another draw to secure ONE point
     
  23. prodigal_mind

    prodigal_mind Member

    Cristiano Ronaldo
    Portugal
    Jul 3, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
  24. SCP_16

    SCP_16 Member+

    Aug 8, 2004
    Bay Area
    Club:
    Sporting CP Lisbon
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    Shit, I can go back at all the shit you've said in other threads about other topics and prove that you were wrong about multiple things. Do you really want me to bump the Bruno Fernandes thread?

    Also, no one is disputing that Mourinho's coaching is outdated and antiquated. So you're just arguing with yourself at this point.
     
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  25. SCP21

    SCP21 Member

    Jul 1, 2011
    Club:
    Sporting CP Lisbon
    Which teams has he destroyed exactly? Every club he has joined saw a significant increase in performance when he joined and a significant drop when he left. Porto, Inter, United, Real, Chelsea... all of them.

    Ronaldo won 2 La Liga titles in 10 years at Real. I'm pretty sure he was ok being coached by Mourinho, he's even said it.

    Odd argument to make considering the incredible impact and loyalty he has from his players. Thats probably the biggest reason he has so much success, because the players are so with him and trust him so much.

    He's very clearly not only as good as his players. He revolutionizes his players.
     

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