The evolving and ever competitive forward pool

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by OWN(yewu)ED, Jul 26, 2021.

  1. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    Club: Venezia F.C.
    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1 OWN(yewu)ED, Jul 26, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2021
    The competition for what is probably 4 spots is getting increasingly interesting, and perhaps no position is ebb and flow more obvious for our team (and probably most national teams) than the forward slots. So much of it is the assumption of finding the back of the net. Fancy and flare is nice, and goes a long way. Making players around you better goes a long way too. So, with much of the Gold Cup already in the books, how are we looking? Who is where?

    Pack Your Bags:

    Matthew Hoppe: No one's stock has rose more than Hoppe at the Gold Cup. I think hes the only one that's hit lock status. He is abusive to defenders and does not care if you have a family. Hopphino is gonna embarrass you in front of your friends. I absolutely cannot wait to get him on with the big boys team. He is going to make Pulisic, Reyna, and friends better by being on the field with them.

    The Battle:

    basically everyone else now

    Zardes: the running joke is still quite serious. I’m sure to the chagrin of many, Zardes has played good enough to continue justifying inclusion. And you know, he’s created some pretty dangerous shots this tournament. He’s a Greg guy, that’s gonna make him hard to knock off the roster.

    Daryl Dike: Had that special Championship season with Barnsley. Jamaica I think was the first team that was equal to the task with his speed, athleticism, and physicality. Completely marked out of the game. Could be concerning against defenders with similar skillsets. But, the bulldozer is probably still on the plane if we had to name a 23 tomorrow.

    Josh Sargent: No one's stock has plummeted harder than this guys. "Almost" is good at almost scoring at the national team level. He does a lot of good stuff off the ball and has a knack for helping the other A-teamers look better. And I promise you no other forward on the roster does that goal-saving run back clearance off the line like he did against Honduras. Kid tries hard, but he NEEDS to start scoring some goals, especially in the BL2. Currently, probably gets a ticket, but there are some hungry kids that would happily steal this spot if he remains stagnant.

    Ricardo Pepi: Oh boy.......Someone wants to steal a YA's roster spot. That hattie was impressive, and we see you Pepi. Roster tomorrow, form weighs into a lot, he is forward number four for me.

    Pefok: Good player. He keeps knocking in goals in Europe, he will continue to get good callups. Id like to see more at the national team level still. Sometimes he goes invisible.

    Nico Gioacchini: I have a higher opinion on Gio than others I think. I like what he does as a pure forward. He doesnt have that wing skillset that hes trying to be shoehorned in. He does good things when he is put in front of the net. I could see him getting on a scoring streak.

    Timothy Weah: Im still a believer, but a lot of BS is starting to think its time to crap or get off the pot.

    Cade Cowell: Unlike Gio, Cade CAN take up that wing slot. I still see him as an out-and-out forward and I think playing him out wide is a waste, but if thats how someone wants to use him, he can do that too. Highest upside of any other forward prospect in the pool currently IMO. Like Sands, Cade's versatility could get him on the 23. Playing multiple positions well gets you a plane ticket.

    Mason Toye: We see you Mason. Doing some good grown man's work at Montreal and putting in some nice goals. He does a lot a lot of good things, and his dynamic athleticism would appear to translate well at the next level. He needs to be the first forward name besides Pepi on the Camp Cupcake roster.

    Folarin Balogun: Just say yes, kid. You know you want to.

    Jordan Morris: He gets healthy and up to previous form, he gatecrashes this party. We know his pre-injury capacity, and that is a high octane valuable player.
     
  2. QuakeAttack

    QuakeAttack Member+

    Apr 10, 2002
    California - Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yawn. We still don't have the "man" up front. I'm still hopeful on a few (Dikes and Hoppe), but overall, they are underwhelming. Also, while that he some Dempsey in him (try's sh!t), Hoppe was lucky one or two his poor passes didn't end up a goal for Jamaica. However, I did like his work rate and overall skill level.
     
  3. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    You left off the guy who is starting the next two games:D
     
  4. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    Club: Venezia F.C.
    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    yuuuuup, I knew I forgot someone. Amended
     
  5. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's also still Jozy Altidore. If he's healthy and getting a consistent run of games, he's definitely got a role to play. A big if I know, and while I wouldn't take him to a tournament because of the injury risk, its different for an expanding WCQ roster.
     
  6. RossD

    RossD Member+

    Aug 17, 2013
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    I think Zardes is showing he's the most current complete striker we have. I can understand why he's a Greg Guy, he's a coaches guy. He busts his ass, does the small but necessary stuff, doesn't have an ego, and puts team first. Who wouldn't want him on their roster?
    Like Holden pointed out last night, Hoppe's first professional game was in November and Dike's was 12 months ago. Let's not put unrealistic expectaotions on them. They are both going to improve a lot over the next year.
     
  7. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    He's an absolute no in a tournament, and not really necessary for WCQ. What would he have to do to prove he's an upgrade? I guess a goal a game would do it + health, but we know that's not happening.
     
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  8. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He would have been useful yesterday.
     
  9. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From what I have seen from Dike this tournament I can't for the life of me understand how somebody thinks he's ahead of Sargent.

    Not saying he won't get there but for a so called big presence, he's been anything but.
     
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  10. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Would he? When was the last time we saw Jozy Altidore in any volume? Are you sure he's anywhere near the player you think he is?
     
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  11. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the answer is the 2019 Gold Cup where I thought he played well. And even in the final it was when he started to fade when we really started to fall off. I'm just saying he should be part of the pool and if he's healthy and scoring in MLS I'd for sure include him on WCQ rosters. But like said it's a big if at this point. It's a tournament where I'd worry about having him on the roster, not so much when it comes to 30 man rosters.
     
  12. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We needed a striker who could hold the ball up and bring in the other attacking players. I can't think of anyone in MLS who does that better than Jozy, even with his fitness challenges.

    Dike seems to be at his best as a target man. He's the perfect EFL Championship striker. I'd like to see his highlights from yesterday.
     
  13. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    When was the last time you saw Jozy? Because last year, he didn't do anything when he played.

    Players go from 100 to done pretty quickly in their 30s.
     
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  14. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Obviously he's not fit for this tournament.

    Kenny Dalglish at Liverpool was the perfect player in that role.
     
  15. cyberthoth

    cyberthoth Member+

    Nashville SC
    Aug 7, 2000
    Nashville, TN
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm with you on Hoppe. He needs some work on his hold up play but it's not like he doesn't get others involved.

    He's also good in the air (at least compared to the other options), good on the counter, and he puts the ball on frame. I'd love to see what he does with Pulisic, Reyna, and McKennie.

    It's a shame we don't have wingers on this GC squad to play him at the 9. We can blame Gregg for that and some criticism is warranted but Dike was supposed to emerge from this tournament as a threat at forward and he just hasn't done that. It's understandable Gregg wanted to ease Hoppe in at the wing spot, where he's useful as well.
     
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  16. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Gregg has had the option of using Zardes wide and Hoppe centrally. It does seem that seniority confers certain benefits on his teams.
     
  17. largegarlic

    largegarlic Member+

    Jul 2, 2007
    I think there are likely only 2 pure forwards on the best-23 roster. That's what Berhalter took to NL. I think our top 4 wingers are pretty well set--Pulisic, Reyna, Aaronson, and Weah. And you're leaving one of those guys off to bring another middling forward. Maybe we could make room for 3 forwards, if, say, Sands is backup 6 and CB, and we save a roster spot somewhere else, but that's about it, I think.

    I said a month or so ago that I thought Sargent and Dike had the inside tracks on those 2 forward spots, because they are (were?) the two most likely to end up in top 5 leagues next season. Now, it seems like Dike isn't ready for a top league, whether he's sold to one or not, and Sargent might be staying at Werder Bremen. Hoppe is now looking the guy who might be most likely to land and look decent in a top 5 league this season.

    So, I'd probably swap Dike for Hoppe right now. I'd keep Sargent, because even when he's not scoring, he makes himself useful in other ways. Dike has been a complete non-factor these past two games.
     
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  18. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Dike did make two nice passes to Hoppe on the shots that Blake saved.
     
  19. VictoryWePredict4Thee

    VictoryWePredict4Thee BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 4, 2019
    Not sure if serious
     
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  20. Yowza

    Yowza Member+

    DC United
    United States
    Oct 23, 2019
    Arlington
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think with Dike it would be worth trying to get him going from wide positions. Not starting at wing or playing wing at all, but instead of playing to his feet in the middle of the field, play to the space on the wing and let him go get it.
    Altidore used to do this a lot, it's hold up play just different. Once he gets the ball wide, he has the sideline behind him so he's comfortable in his surroundings, he passes the ball to a teammate then makes his way to the box.
    If he starts to feel himself he can take players on.
    He doesn't look comfortable back to goal, and his vertical runs aren't as useful as the horizontal ones (think about that beauty goal he scored). I'd like to see getting him moving side to side more, hopefully that pulls defenders also.
     
  21. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This appears to be the way to get the best out of Dike
     
  22. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    4 spots? OK.

    Sargent
    Hoppe
    Zardes
    Pepi

    Weah is absolutely on the team but not as one of the four strikers, even though I do agree he could play there. If Morris comes back and regains form, he would be another who would likely make it as a wing player who could play forward if needed.

    For me, unless Dike steps up in the next couple games, he didn't show enough to unseat Zardes when we need a physical presence up front. Hoppe, on the other hand, did show he's ready to play and I really want to see him up top with Reyna and Pulisic. That's a whole lot of skill and attacking mentality together. Sargent is still top of the list, but I think Hoppe is a real contender to take it from him. Zardes gets the nod as a hard worker who can battle for you. It was him or Dike for me and I went Zardes.

    Pepi seems an odd choice I understand, but a young up and comer is always a good thing to bring along. We play 1 striker at a time. So, a starter and a backup are basically all that is needed. Maybe you have to stretch to your third guy. But odds are that the fourth striker gets very little if any time so I'd rather spend that spot on a hope for the future, young guy with energy and ambition than our fourth best guy in a position where we are already weak who won't likely play anyway.
     
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  23. Rep_Le_Rouge

    Rep_Le_Rouge Member

    Chelsea
    United States
    Jul 11, 2021
    Dike has played himself out of being anything but a super sub in my eyes. Just not enough technical ability. Hoppe and Sargent are interchangeable at this point. Seems like Pulisic has quite the rapport with Hoppe though.
     
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  24. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Christen Press's armpit
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hoppe needs to get his club situation settled (get away from Shalke).
     
  25. dams

    dams Member+

    United States
    Dec 22, 2018
    Hopefully he shows well again for two more games and it greases the skids for a transfer
     

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