The English Media...?

Discussion in 'Premier League: News and Analysis' started by beautifulgamer, Apr 14, 2006.

  1. beautifulgamer

    beautifulgamer New Member

    Nov 11, 2000
    I'm not from England so while I've heard about the supposed creature called the English Media I am not really sure what to make of "it". I suppose for me the most unbelievable manifestation of said creature was the emergence of the Fake Sheik who ruined Eriksson. I tried to search this site for other threads on this subject but didn't find any. Sorry if I'm repeating an earlier thread. This thread was inspired by a post by Sinner78, who wrote, "the press have been after gazza since 1990 when he played well in the italia 90 world cup .its just the way they are in this country .they want to destroy everyone who reaches the top."

    Here are my poll questions:

    The English media...

    ...is a monster that devores young and old (they want to destroy everyone who reaches the top).

    ...doesn't care if it's actions actually get in the way of improving the game in general or the prospects of its national team

    ...has done a great deal to improve the game and helped players and managers elevate their careers

    ...has the most professional and eloquent writers in the world of football who actually enhance the beauty and drama of the game and who are inseparable from the aura of the home of football

    ...is out of control

    ...shapes the minds of the fans and players who then shape the game of football

    ...is a true reflection of the many different aspects of English culture

    ...is like any other media throughout the world

    ...is unique among all of the other football media cultures of the world

    ...all of the above
     
  2. sinner78

    sinner78 BigSoccer Supporter

    Sheffield Wednesday
    England
    Nov 7, 2001
    Like I said ,they love to build someone up and then knock them down.
    They had Rooney allover the press as come kind of messiah and now they're digging up dirt and telling lies .Doing their best to ruin him .

    This just isnt restricted to football .Its basically anyone who is famous .
     
  3. beautifulgamer

    beautifulgamer New Member

    Nov 11, 2000
    Thanks. Hey, I screwed up this post. I wanted to attach a poll but something went wrong. Do you know if there is any way to edit a poll?:eek:
     
  4. sinner78

    sinner78 BigSoccer Supporter

    Sheffield Wednesday
    England
    Nov 7, 2001

    you could ask the mods to edit it.
    just tell them what changes you want to make to the poll.
     
  5. The Potter

    The Potter Member+

    Aug 26, 2004
    England
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Basically. We're a nation of poppy-cutters and the media reflects that. On the bright side some of the writing is really quite good.
     
  6. sinner78

    sinner78 BigSoccer Supporter

    Sheffield Wednesday
    England
    Nov 7, 2001
    name some good writers.
    most are terrible .
     
  7. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    You have to differentiate between serious journalism and 'the tabloids'. For the purposes of discussion I'll assume you're talking about the tablois. The normal journalist standards in the UK are pretty similar to other countries.
    It's not just people at the top. They just want to sell papers and will destroy everyone and everything that gets in the way.
    They're not bothered either way.
    LOL. Only by accident if it's happened at all. It hasn't.
    LOL Now I KNOW you're having a laugh.
    Pretty much, yeah.
    Most people treat them more as entertainment, like a comic for adults. Some people of limited intellect, (and some foreigners who want to use them as a stick to beat us with), take notice of them.
    ... in the same way the national enquirer is an accurate reflection of American culture, you mean? ... or American christian fundamentalists reflect all US citizens?

    No, in other words.
    If you take the media overall INCLUDING TV, then that's a yes.

    Essentially, we have very good TV reporting with the BBC and rather bad reporting with the media, (in general, anyway). Most other countries written media has more of a balance.

    The other things that's different, particularly to the US, is that we have national newspapers. Almost nobody relies on their local papers to get the news. In the US it's probably the opposite so people have come to rely on their local papers to tell the truth.

    If they didn't, people wouldn't buy them.
    I don't know about unique but it's pretty bad. I can't imagine too many other countries having to put up with the rubbish we have to.
     
  8. The Potter

    The Potter Member+

    Aug 26, 2004
    England
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England

    Henry Winter is excellent imo.
     
  9. beautifulgamer

    beautifulgamer New Member

    Nov 11, 2000
    Prolific post. Yes, I suppose we should differentiate. The tabliods seem to be generally awful, while I have read some good quality writing over the years in the other papers. I am also quite fond of some of the television voices. Martin Tyler was an early favourite of mine...
     
  10. beautifulgamer

    beautifulgamer New Member

    Nov 11, 2000
    Nice screen name. I do recall liking Winter's style...

    If any of you are English, do you feel angry (regardless of what you think of the current manager) that a loose canon like the Fake Sheik can single-handedly unsettle England's best chance at the World Cup since 66?

    Personally, if I were an England supporter I'd want this kind of thing to be somehow eliminated...
     
  11. King-James

    King-James New Member

    May 27, 2005
    Not to mention how it will deter future managers from joining the team...

    Not that that matters, considering the FA has basically given up hope on winning a future trophy (Hiddink for a cup of tea? WTF? Look at their 'short list')


    What I've wondered is why English people buy those rediculous newspapers.
     
  12. beautifulgamer

    beautifulgamer New Member

    Nov 11, 2000
    Yes...the rumoured "list" is rather suspect:( . A footballing country like England :) deserves the best possible national team coach regardless of nationality
     
  13. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Karo Viertel
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany

    the same reason americans watch fox
     
  14. King-James

    King-James New Member

    May 27, 2005
    :confused: Americans watch FOX because they want to listen to whatever tries to advertise their stupid political/moral/religious beliefs. That's a bit different from paying money to constantly read bullshit stories about football and peoples personal lives.

    You won't see ESPN SportsCenter showing the headlines of The National Enquirer every day like SkySportsNews shows all the tabloid headlines :rolleyes:
     
  15. schafer

    schafer Member+

    Mar 12, 2004

    Does he write in FourFourTwo? Or World Soccer?
     
  16. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I don't think it's so much a desire to destroy (although there are undoubtled a few examples where they seem determined to "get" someone, hence the SGE set-up, and in other news, the vilification of Pete Doherty, mainly because despite being a waster he still got to shag a bird most everyone else only dreams about), more that a bad story sells more papers than a good one. They'll quite happily print a pack of lies if it makes a good story. There wasn't a shred of truth in the "rooney slaps coleen in nightclub" story, but it sold papers. It's even come out that the ugly old bag (a euphamism would have been less kind) rooney was supposed to have shagged in a massage parlour wasn't a hooker at all (she just answered the phone), but of course it made a better story.

    as said above, not a care in the world.

    the press can be supportive in major tournaments, but that's about it.

    If there was one thing I would praise the tabloids for it's their coverage of football below the premiership. Twice a week, every single match in the football league gets a full match reprot in the likes of the sun and the mirror. Contrast that to the quality press, where you'd be forgiven for thinking that there's only one match a week that's not played in the premiership.

    about as wide of the mark as Geoff Thomas' shot against France.

    On the whole, beyond just football, I think people know stories are embellished (any story out of the Max Clifford stable is seldom more than a very distant relative of the truth) but people seem less aware of just how much effort papers will go to deceive their readers.

    Doctoring photographs to give a false impression is quite normal, even to the extent that without the changes, it'd be clear that there wasn't a story in the first place.

    I think a lot of people treat it as a bit of a laugh, but there are enough who don't see through it to shape things in a bad way.

    the Sun often features the "white van man" column, where they interview drivers of white vans about questions of the day - the thinking being that "white van man" represents the thoughts of the "average guy" on the street. Most tabloids have a "white van man" mentality, and consequently try to appeal to the kind of person who likes to have strong opinions, but doesn't want to have to think too deeply about them. There is certainly an element of that in English society.

    particularly in football, the media has a habit of treating the important stuff lightly, and treating the unimportant stuff far too seriously.
     
  17. beautifulgamer

    beautifulgamer New Member

    Nov 11, 2000
    Can you describe this shot? I am not familiar with it.

    So, no grand English Football Writing in the papers? How about Alan Hansen's stuff with the BBC? He's not a great stylist but not bad either.

    Or how about that fellow from the International Herald Tribune...(he leaves the forum for a moment to search for the article in his email account)...here it is: Rob Hughes...and a sample of his work: A life spent with O Jogo Bonito . But I don't know if he's English. Might be American..
     
  18. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Karo Viertel
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany

    Hansen is dreadful.



    In my opionion blah blah blah

    now to state the obvious

    Now to state my opinion in slightly different words

    Now to state the obvious in slightly different words
     
  19. beautifulgamer

    beautifulgamer New Member

    Nov 11, 2000
    Hmm. Any English football writers (Media) you can think of that impressed you?
     
  20. The Potter

    The Potter Member+

    Aug 26, 2004
    England
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England

    He has a column in 442 but writes for The Telegraph.
     
  21. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    I believe he is referring to a truly awful chip, which went completely wrong. Thomas just sclaffed it badly.

    I would say that there are a few decent ones notably Winter, Brian Glanville (World Soccer and occasionally The Sunday Times), Hugh McIllvenny (The Sunday Times), Simon Kuiper (The Financial Times), Patrick Barclay (The Sunday Telegraph), Joe Lovejoy (The Sunday Times), Simon Barnes (The Times), Keir Radnedge (World Soccer).

    Most of the rest are rubbish, in particular Steve Howard (The Sun) this guy is so bad it's untrue, Martin Samuel the supposed football writer of the year (The Sun and The Times), Harry Harris (The Express).
     
  22. beautifulgamer

    beautifulgamer New Member

    Nov 11, 2000
    Thanks. Those are familiar names actually. I have read them over the years. Great quote for your signature...
     
  23. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I think that was my point... the two countries media are not the same.
     
  24. Sempre

    Sempre ****************** Member+

    Mar 4, 2005
    NYC
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Simon Kuper is Dutch, but I think he's the best soccer writer
    in the world. Why didn't you mention Richard Williams of the
    Guardian, by the way? He is pure class and I rate him as one
    of the best English writers on the sport.

    Over here we have Paul Gardner, an English ex-pat. All of his
    articles take up one of two themes: Brazilian futebol is great;
    English football is crap. It's a career, all right .........
     
  25. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Yes.
    I agree.

    The thing you have to bear in mind is that the tabloids are not really part of the journalistic standards in Britain. They're more a part of the entertainments industry. Like I said, they've been squeezed out by the excellence of the BBC's reporting on most factual matters.

    It's actually been quite interesting to watch the rise of Fox in the US from over here. It very much reminds me of what happened to The Sun newspaper and the rest of the lower quality newspapers.

    I doubt it's any accident that Americans are now complaining that their media didn't ask the difficult questions in the run up to the Iraq war. Fox News, like The Sun back in the 60's over here, is like a cancer in journalistic standards, lowering the level of the debate across the board.
     

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