The Emma Hayes era begins

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by lil_one, Nov 14, 2023.

  1. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    Correct.

    And their Route One puntball was rightly punished, while Spain's more modern possession game was rightly rewarded with a championship.

    The USWNT showed NONE of the possession, nor the position game that more modern sides [like Spain] deploy. They showed much more of the Route One puntball that Sweden featured.
     
  2. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    No, they tied repeatedly, and ultimately lost a tiebreaker.

    That would not normally be described as "getting their asses kicked." Or even losing.

    Just "not winning." The notion that not winning is ipso facto abject failure is childish, especially in a sport like soccer, where ties are truly common.
     
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  3. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    So they lost, without losing. Got it.

    Look, LOSING a game that Sweden actively tried to lose themselves is getting your ass kicked.

    I mean, even a blind, drunk monkey could have seen that Sweden's moronic insistence on Route One was NOT working. And after oh, I dunno, the 10th or so goal kick taken long by Sweden that lost them possession, you'd think that they'd, I dunno, try something different?

    Losing to such a moronic opponent, is in fact, getting your ass kicked.
     
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  4. ytrs

    ytrs Member+

    Jan 24, 2018
    You seem angry,

    Get us some clips of this route one punt ball you saw, please. I recall Sophia Smith regularly getting trapped on the sideline with the ball as we built out through Crystal Dunn's side.

    We lacked a quality coach. Don't dump on all of US Soccer and its players because we had a clown coaching us.
     
  5. ytrs

    ytrs Member+

    Jan 24, 2018
    He was a bad hire. Get off your narrow minded approach here. As I said, you are clearly angry about something.

    The US had one bad cycle under an inexperienced coach and you put this all on Europe being better. Are you aware that England is quite possibly not going to qualify for the Olympics because of their poor play post Euros? Should we blame that on the WSL? Or does the WSL get credit for their good play at the Euros? Just maybe it is a little more nuanced than crediting or blaming a league.
     
  6. PJ234

    PJ234 Member

    DC united
    United States
    Oct 17, 2021
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  7. chirenzhiren

    chirenzhiren Member

    Dortmund
    United States
    Jul 14, 2021
    Your argument is essentially more possession = better play which is not consistent with the fact, even the championship team heavily emphasizes on possession doesn't mean a possession game is naturally superior.

    I really don't understand when Spanish style possession game consistently failed in men's game for more than a decade, people still believe the style is superior but not personnel matters most.
     
  8. chirenzhiren

    chirenzhiren Member

    Dortmund
    United States
    Jul 14, 2021
    If the ref of Sweden vs Spain match was the one who ref Sweden vs Japan, Spain would be much less likely to win. The point is result of one game is influenced many factors other than style.
     
  9. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    1. That's lazy way to disagree on your part.

    2. Thank you for agreeing with me that the coaching was suspect.

    3. No one is "dumping" on "all of US Soccer." [I will dump on the middling attitudes of the players, in how they seemed to assume that they were destined to win, irrespective of their effort level.]

    Again, that's lazy. No one is "angry" when its pointed out that the coaching and tactics were inferior to that of other sides.


    The Europeans are tapping into their wealth of knowledge and experience in coaching and tactics from the mens' side of the game. Its one reason why their future looks more promising than the US' in many ways.
     
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  10. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Well, that is kind of a yes and no question.
    But the NCAA is a bunch of crooks, like most any big business, and to top that off they have always called the professionals playing in most sports amateurs. I do not think the NCAA should be recreated or rebranded or anything else. It should be disbanded and the professional "sports" removed from "college" completely.

    College is for learning and most college sports are little related to that.

    I could go on but this thread is really not a good place for this discussion.
     
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  11. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member+

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
    So, do we think that with Nighswonger listed as a midfielder, we're going to see 3 at the back with wingbacks?
     
  12. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    And yet, NO ONE, on the mens' side plays as much Route One as many of the womens' teams did. It seems as though the tactics on the womens' side are a bit behind that of the mens' side.

    Even the English try to possess the ball, and those are the folks who lived on Route One for the better part of their history.

    Meanwhile, Spain won the WWC, and a largely semi-pro side in Portugal with less talent than the USWNT were a post away from sending them home early. How?

    By playing possession and position, as most modern sides do on both the mens' and womens' sides do.

    Well, there must be a reason why the best coaches on both the mens' and womens' side of the game come from the Iberian peninsula right now, and not NWSL or MLS.

    Creating a friendship with the ball is central to winning nowadays.
     
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  13. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    While we will never know this for certain, I disagree.

    Refs RARELY decide the outcome of that, or any game. Especially with the advent of VAR.
     
  14. chirenzhiren

    chirenzhiren Member

    Dortmund
    United States
    Jul 14, 2021
    You are making alternative history by claiming as if Portugal dominated US, they did not. They had much fewer shots and way lower xG, yeah, they had a good chance to put US away but even if they had done that, it's more like Colombia overcome Germany which doesn't mean playing dirty and fouling around is the superior playing style.

    Seriously, you think best coaches are from Iberia in women's game. Cool, have fun.
     
  15. chirenzhiren

    chirenzhiren Member

    Dortmund
    United States
    Jul 14, 2021
    You really don't understand the game. Ref had much more leeway in setting up the acceptable threshold of contact and physicality which are not subject to VAR. Some refs are very tolerant in calling out fouls while some others are less lenient. The ref in Sweden vs Japan is very lenient in calling out fouls and Sweden could make take more advantage of their superior physicality and truly disturbed Japan's build up by high pressing. The Brazilian ref in the Sweden vs Spain game didn't tolerate physicality at all, and are very susceptible to Spanish players diving attempts. This changing in ref standards hugely influenced Sweden's play.
     
  16. chirenzhiren

    chirenzhiren Member

    Dortmund
    United States
    Jul 14, 2021
    It's really wild people believe best coaches are from Iberia when coaches of 7 of quarterfinalists of latest UCL are not from this area. Is Pep the only coach you know?
     
  17. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    VAR just moves who "decides the match" from the on field ref to the VAR ref. Initially I thought VAR would become a good thing but it is NOT.

    VAR is allowing more bad refs to make bad calls that decide matches. (Or making bad calls the prevent the reasonable flow of the match.)
    VAR is worse for soccer than steel drums plus vuvuzelas plus commercials during play. I keep hoping VAR would die but people really believe that usually getting it right is worth the never ending VAR reviews. Of course it does give commentators the chance to really expose their stupidity.
     
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  18. ytrs

    ytrs Member+

    Jan 24, 2018
    Still waiting for these clips of route one that you have made up in your head.
     
  19. NCChiFan

    NCChiFan Member

    NC Courage
    United States
    Feb 19, 2021
    USWNT allowed only 1 goal in regulation play in the Tournament if I'm not mistaken. The problem most teams dealt with was a sacrifice to their own attack to defend the US attack. I knew the USWNT was in trouble with their style of play when Swanson went down. She was the key to the offense. That style of offense. Her combination of speed and on ball ability set her apart from all the rest of the, basically, just speed wingers. Williams, Sophie, Trinity... All speed not much else. The offense certainly wasn't designed to go through the 9 hole.

    Edit: I believe, if Swanson would have been healthy going into that tournament, Vlatko would still be coach today. For better or worse.

    Edit #2: The hunt is on as they are bringing in some new folks, and old (Abby)... Time will tell.
     
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  20. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member+

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
    I mean, they had more of the ball, and our only idea seemed to be give to current/former thorns on the left. And sometimes, if the ball found it's way to Fox, get it to Williams.

    https://www.thestriker.com/2023/08/01/united-states-vs-portugal-womens-world-cup-recap

    It wasn't really Route One, which implies long balls over the midfield to a big forward to flick/knock down... it was more Route Only One, which was down the left and if somehow the ball didn't get intercepted, watch Horan or Smith dribble into 1vN situations that didn't end well.

    I also found this article interesting, comparing the 2019 team with the NWSL, FAWSL, etc. I'd love to see them do one for 2023.

    https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fspor.2023.1125528/full

    Reinforces my beliefs that the WNT dominance was based on pouncing on mistakes in the opponents defensive 3rd and getting shots, and relying on ball carriers (press, heath,rapinoe, lavelle, dunn & ohara to a lesser extent) to drive the attacking play.. As the rest of the world improves technically at playing from the back and defending in a more organized way, they're going to need a new strategy...
     
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  21. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    but then you got to go with this 2022 SBC match where Vlatko had his strongest front line yet of Swanson, Smith, Macario & Lavelle at AM, yet only managed an 0-0 draw vs Euro lightweights. Czech Republic
    United States vs. Czechia - 18 February 2022 - Women Soccerway
     
  22. dams

    dams Member+

    United States
    Dec 22, 2018
    #97 dams, Nov 22, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2023
    Swanson was a different player at that point. She was playing the best soccer of her career in the months leading up to her injury. In early 2022 she was struggling a little bit with her end product. Smith was pretty green then and it seems like that front line was still trying to figure each other out at that point also.

    In any event, I'm not defending Vlatko as I think he did a poor job but he was dealt a tough hand when he lost Cat and then Mal. He was building his team around those respective individual players, which could be considered a problem in it's own right.
     
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  23. Spart

    Spart Member

    United States
    Jul 17, 2023
    Arizona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When Swanson went down, I really feeling a heavy dose of 'doom'. LOL!
     
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  24. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    Agreed it does transfer stupidity from the pitch to a TV booth.

    But, it also subtracts the part of having to make a reaction in live time, while adding additional angles, replays, and computer generated assistance.

    To be sure, VAR isn't infallible, and its often annoying how it interrupts the flow of the game. But, I maintain that its losers logic to blame or to credit the officiating for the win, loss, or draw of a match.
     
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  25. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    #100 Khan, Nov 22, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2023
    Wait, are you telling us that:

    This Guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonatan_Giráldez ain't from Iberia? I mean, I'm sure he learned his coaching from the [snicker] USSF coaching courses, right?

    And of course, this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jorge_Vilda, who won something called the, "Women's World Cup," must also not have come from the peninsula, right?

    I say, "Xabi Alonso," you say, "Jesse Marsch," cuz OF COURSE Alonso must suck.

    I say, "Mikel Arteta," you say, "Vlatko Andonovski," because those Spaniards are fooking stoopid, right?

    I say, "Michel," you say, yup, those Iberians know jack and shyte about soccer.

    Oh, and of course Pep sucks ass, right?
     

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