There's been some discussion of DeSantis in various threads, but I wanted to put some thoughts together in one place, so here's a thread dedicated to ... ok, just who is this DeSantis guy? There's people who think that he's the next Trump, but more dangerous because he's smarter. There's people who think he's a palatable authoritarian - Trump can't implement Hungary or Turkey or Russia style anti-democratic reforms because he's so unpopular outside of his base, but DeSantis will be able to make these changes. There's people who are trying to make DeSantis happen. "Gretchen, stop trying to make DeSantis happen. It's not going to happen!" My feeling is that DeSantis is a big asshole, but he's no Trump. Trump has that... je ne sais quoi. That thing, that makes Trump Trump. The cult thing. Does Trumpism work without Trump? I believe it's @Kazuma who has been drawing a parallel to a Mad Men episode where the ad agency tried to create an ad similar to Ann-Margaret's performance in Bye Bye Birdie, but it failed, because it wasn't Ann-Margaret. DeSantis isn't Trump. Here's the cult stuff that Trump has that DeSantis doesn't have: 1. Political cartoonists like Ben Garrison that make these cartoons showing Trump as a virile manly man (as opposed to an obese diaper-wearing old man who can't walk down a ramp or pick up a glass of water in one hand) fighting off the Pelosis and AOCs and Soroses in order to keep America great. 2. Artists like Jon McNaughton who make these super serious oil paintings with Trump in historical situations alongside the best American Presidents in history. 3. Appalachian families that dress up their daughters in red, white and blue and make them sing harmonic odes to Trump at big rallies. 4. Big rallies. I don't know if they're still big but over the last two years of his term he was having big hatefest rallies every week. 5. Golden statues at CPAC. 6. Entire media organizations willing to make excuses for every dumbass thing that comes out of his mouth, and every criminal thing he does in plain sight. 7. Dumb ********ers who are willing to die in a hail of bullets in a cornfield in Ohio because the justice system finally decided to try to hold Trump accountable. There's more, but DeSantis has none of this. Because DeSantis is a politician, not a cult leader. There's people trying to make DeSantis happen - Arizona Republican governor candidate Kari Lake said today that DeSantis has BDE, just like Trump. They certainly both come across as BDs, but until DeSantis gets some of that cult stuff going, I'm not going to worry about him this way. From a voting perspective, DeSantis won't get the same turnout as Trump, because he doesn't have that cult thing going for him. The only question is, will Democrats still turn out to vote against him the way they turned out to vote against Trump in 2020? I honestly don't think DeSantis can win a national election - he doesn't bring out the "white working class", you know, the ones with "economic anxiety", the same way that Trump does. He doesn't barely win the upper midwestern states that Trump won. That's my feeling. It depends on the Democratic candidate as well, but Trumpism without Trump doesn't bring out that barely-winning coalition that Trump had in 2016. The bigger concern is the fascist stuff that he's implementing in Florida, going unquestioned by a compliant media, setting up voter suppression to make Florida a permanently red state. Withholding information about Covid and simply declaring victory. Passing culture war laws to secure the state for Republicans for the foreseeable future. But I don't think he has what it takes to take that nationwide. It's entirely possible that I'm in a bubble and I am missing the appeal that DeSantis has to the Trump base. Please begin ripping everything I wrote to shreds... now.
I think Con DeSantis is a far more dangerous man than Mango. For one thing, I believe his fascist tendencies come much more naturally than they do for Mango. And he has just enough focus and resolve to do a lot more damage than Mango ever did.
I think he's more of a natural authoritarian than Trump--which means that he's more effective at wielding power than Trump once he has it. I don't think he has the 'fascist touch' at riling up crowds/mobs and making cult followers out of them. DeSantis doesn't seem like a guy who would trust his own base to follow him the way Trump does.
Yeah, this. There's a number of wannabe authoritarians out there - Josh Hawley is an example - who would very much enjoy dismantling our democracy, but who can't win the Presidency. These guys are plenty dangerous but they're limited in what they can accomplish as Governor or Senator from a red state. My question is, does DeSantis have enough BDE to make that leap to become President? I don't think the other authoritarians do. But if we start seeing stuff like this for DeSantis or someone else, look out. I have to be honest, there is nothing quite like Trump as Jesus pulling the Statue of Liberty from the water--presumably as a result of climate change he helped accelerate, but details!--to know that we are in hell already. pic.twitter.com/JBUxmTq8a1— Thomas Lecaque (@tlecaque) August 16, 2022
A potential cult leader has to have a public persona and a talent for entertainment. By the time he ran for president, Trump had been doing both for 25 years, DeSantis hasn't started yet.
I have. That applies to a lot of GOP pols, Hawley (Energy of a hapless substitute teacher plus that running video), Cotton (Energy of 2nd best salesman at a small insurance firm), Cruz (The energy of just being Ted Cruz) and so on. Trump's got charisma and has 40 years of name recognition. Personality goes a long way as Jules once said. As for DeSantis, there's just so many things I'm skeptical of. Even his own party realizes that. There's a New Yorker article that puts it best: Great on paper, but in person is a different experience. He has the personality of that one rude guy at work. On top of that, narrowly winning governorship in a state like Florida just doesn't scream inspiring to me. It's the Barca youth product hype, does a couple of notable things but gets And lastly, there's one Donald Trump. His folks are deluded if they think Trump is going to fall in line or buy the farm (He'll outlive Kissinger at this rate). And DeSantis had a chance to basically make a play for the nomination with the Mar-a-Lago raid, but he's too much of a coward. If he actually has to compete against Trump, it's going to be a direct fight, and that is something DeSantis does not do*. DeSantis only gets seen as combative because he's mean to a bunch of 12 year old gay kids. Either way, I could be wrong about DeSantis. He is smart, yes. But that doesn't mean a thing. *: Case in point, Biden telling Trump to shut up or DeSantis looking like a kid when Biden was in Florida during a natural disaster.
The thing with De Santis, is I don't see him cutting off his nose to spite his face. He won't burn down the house to put out the bedroom fire. Trump will do all of those things, and more, because he's a legitimate sociopath. And he's a cult leader where people will run into that burning house to help him. Those are ultimately the qualities I think make Trump most dangerous. I dont think De Santis has any of that.
There is this service station which may or may not be in the MD county I live in that has been displaying a DeSantis 2024 banner for roughly 9 months now.
The Grim Reaper of Florida is about power, much like McConnell. Trump is about Authoritarianism, meaning the adulation of being in power. The Grim Reaper reads and is able to plan. His followers won't be as devoted, but the people he has in positions of power will be more devoted to the Grim Reaper than those where who Trump had in place.
Ronald DeSantis is a very boring man. At best, he’s a ragey hall monitor. He’s like Uncle Rico from Napoleon Dynamite with a mysterious, nasaly midwestern accent. He’s out here tryin to make fetch happen with these rallies and… it’s not going to happen. https://t.co/WYSZ5aDJTQ— Michelle Kinney (@MichelleKinney) August 17, 2022
The crazy are making the switch Trump has lost Alex Jones. He announces today he is off the Trump train: “I am supporting Desantis .. I can look into his eyes on HD video, and I see the real sincerity.” pic.twitter.com/wvpKq2PjQR— Ron Filipkowski (@RonFilipkowski) August 18, 2022
Maybe that guy singing about all them FBIs will do a song about Desantis HD eyes. You know, sung to the tune of Bette Davis Eyes.
TFG's not going to just let someone else take over his grift. If he sees DeSantis starting to horn in on his action, he's going to do some crazy shit to keep his base. I'm more interested to see what happens when TFG drops dead (hopefully soon). A non-zero number of his kids will try to keep his legacy going, but they don't have "it", whatever it is that keeps the base happy, and a bunch of other Republicans like DeSantis and Ted Cruz will feel like they can try to step in and take over, but they don't have "it" either. It should be pretty sweet to see the Trump base turn on itself and self-destruct.
Political cults based on personalities don't readily transfer to other personalities. The best American example is Perón. His 2nd wife took power briefly and there were politicians calling themselves Peronists decades after his death but none of them commanded the loyalty that he did.
Fascism is inherently unstable. Right-wing authoritarianism built on a base of lowest-common-denominator populism simultaneously elevates incompetent demagogues who need to create constant chaos in order to maintain their hold on power & the masses, while also creating an insatiable appetite for more of the same within the ranks of supporters.
Big test here for how well voters like fascist-style corporatism when 'anti-woke' rhetoric moves from vague culture-war virtue signaling into state control over their own personal finances: DeSantis' proposed new rules for pension investments push Florida into fight against Wall Street