The current state of our youth national teams

What was my Reyna assessment?

 

you thought he was an ok prospect

dare i say you rate Jonathan Gomez higher

which i find laughable

 

I mentioned one natural right back who might switch over. There are a number of other up and coming prospects like Paredes, Tolkin, etc who are naturally left sided players who I think are just as likely to hit as Gomez.

Gomez is someone we want to keep in the fold. But the sky isn't falling if we lose him.

 

First of all, thank you for proving the guy above wrong about my Reyna assessment. There's a lot of memory-holing when it comes to Reyna. Some people suggest now that if you thought he was merely a very good prospect and not some prodigy (that few actually thought he was) that you were wrong about him.

Second, you are right. Predicting the caliber of prospects is hard. However, I'm not sure that there's much prediction that comes with Gomez. He's not some U-16 player. We aren't talking about Brian Alanis or Cruz Medina playing for Mexico. I think if you look at my posts about the different players we've seen appear for other YNT's in recent years that I have not reacted the same way as I am reacting now, even if it wasn't good news.

We are talking about a player who has been capped by both senior teams, is right on the verge of the first team of a pretty big club in Europe, and has had multiple seasons of pro soccer under his belt with significant accomplishments. It's true that he's not some established star player at the first team level yet, but I think it's important to pick your battles. I think losing Gomez is about as bad as it gets for the USMNT with recruiting dual-nats and I think he will be a core player for either senior NT in a few years

Do I take this approach for every player we might lose? No, which is why I say you have to pick your battles. I'm not going to get worked up over every player who doesn't suit up for this, but I think there needs to be a real reckoning what was done wrong and what can be done better, if Gomez plays for Mexico. It can't just be that he isn't actually that good, he always only wanted to play for Mexico, and it's not important because we have George Bello and some non-natural LB's at the position. Thats how this stuff happens again when the next player to recruit of such importance comes around.

Maybe I'm wrong and Gomez turns into nothing, but if others want to throw a fit about Jonathan Gonzalez (a player I didn't rate) or Slonina (a player I don't rate at the level most others do) or pick or choose any player, I think I'm allowed to take the stance that Gomez is the player that is really is worth getting worked up over which country he plays for. As I said, maybe I'll be wrong.

 

Excuse me, what?

There is a post three posts above yours from someone that pulled up my opinion from a few years back that suggests I thought Reyna was the second best player in his age group (before he ever played a first team game). How is that thinking he was an okay prospect?

Don't memory hole this situation about Reyna. I can accept when I am wrong, but I am not accepting some loss for Reyna. There were very few people that thought he was some prodigy. Most recognized he was a very good prospect with some flaws. I thought he had some things to work on, which he's done, to his credit. Players improve. I don't think incremental improvement from Reyna means I was wrong for not claiming he was a prodigy.

Now look, there are going to be some people that claim he always was a prodigy, and that they got that one totally right. I think thats simply a wrong take, and they got to the right eventual place in their prediction about Reyna for the wrong reasons. Regardless, that's a separate discussion. Don't put me in some category as a Reyna denier. I wasn't.

 

I'm not memory holing anything. You were distinctly lukewarm about Reyna. It's ok. We are all wrong from time to time.

 

For example, here is a longish post of yours dated Sep 2, 2018 in a thread titled Ranking of 01 and Later Prospects (bolding added for shits and giggles):

Here would be my 30 man short-list.
'01: de la Fuente, Booth, Araujo, Akanyirige, Llanez, Stojanovic, Roberts, Tessman, Otasowie
'02: Las, Scally, Bello, Gray, Judge, Alejandre, Hernandez-Foster, Atencio, Saldana, Reyna, Ocampo-Chavez
'03: Nyeman, Cuevas, Pepi, Gomez, Hall, Sarver, Freeman
'04: Rotundo, Toure, Craig

I'll make a top 20. I'll split my explanations into groups of 5.

1. Nyeman
2. de la Fuente
3. Las
4. Scally
5. Booth

Nyeman is first and I see a huge gap between him and everyone else. Positionally plays a very important position, game to game impact is the highest on the list, very few weaknesses, many strengths. I think de la Fuente is likely to have a very good career, but I don't know if I see the potential to play for one of the best clubs in the world. He's just a little too predictable in his chance creation, and not quite athletic enough for that to not matter. Also plays on the side instead of centrally, so less important position. Considering age, current ability, style of play, probably the surest thing "good" player.

Las is a great keeper prospect. I could see an argument that he's higher than de la Fuente talent-wise (and close to Nyeman), but way more unpredictable position and development path because of his position. Scally has a very high floor because of his all-around great athleticism and defensive IQ. He's probably #2 among "sure thing", but he plays on the side, and I'm not sure the potential is there (due to his touch and average offensive creativity) to be a great RB. He might have higher potential as a #6 or CB. Something to watch for. Booth caries risk. Bayern development path (they don't use their academy) and he's been out of contract for a long time now. Talent-wise, he's right there with the guys above him. Only weakness is athleticism, but he mitigates it with a very high soccer IQ.

6. Araujo
7. Akanyirige
8. Ocampo-Chavez
9. Bello
10. Rotundo

The only question with Araujo is his height. Otherwise, he'd be #2 on this list. If he doesn't grow 2-3 inches, he might have to move to the #6. I think he has potential there, but we haven't seen him play it yet. He's not a RB, and its wasting his game to put him there. Akanyirige will be good. I don't have many questions about his game. San Jose is a terrible development environment though. Ocampo-Chavez might have the biggest stock gain among all these players this year. His size isn't going to keep him from playing CF, but it won't be a strength. Thats the only real question I'd have about his game.

Bello plays on the side and has a terrible development environment. I think there are some minor questions about his defensive game. Positioning is a problem as is turnovers. Not going to keep him from playing the position well, but I don't know if he'll be more than slightly above average defensively. Rotundo's game is harder to predict because of his age. I feel like #9 is where there's a big break between most of the older players, so its probably where the best '04 fits into the equation. We'll see how his athleticism develops. From what i see, he plays like Carleton, but is a little less flashy and probably a little less impactful.

11. Llanez
12. Reyna
13. Atencio
14. Cuevas
15. Stojanovic

I don't think Llanez has particularly high upside because he's so predictable and somewhat selfish in his approach, but he's a decent player already. One of the current best players on this list. He'll be a good player. I think Reyna is similar to Llanez in the sense that he doesn't have huge upside, but he's likely to be a good player. Reyna isn't as presently good, but I think he has too many tools to not figure it out to some extent. I don't see any major weaknesses, just needs to put forth some better performances and figure out where on the field he'll play.

I like what I see from Atencio. Big, good defensively, very good feet and passing range. Athleticism is the main question here, IMO. I think he's somewhat comparable to a player like Durkin, but not as impactful or physical. Cuevas has a good combination of polish and upside at RB. He's shown good performances against older players, as well. Development environment will be a question, and he also plays on the side, so not as important of a position. Stojanovic doesn't have big upside as he's not the most skilled or athletic, but he works hard, has good size and scores goals in a variety of ways. Under the radar player. Development environment is a question.

16. Freeman
17. Tessman
18. Gray
19. Gomez
20. Saldana

Freeman has a good combination of upside and current ability. Not many weaknesses. Club form has been somewhat iffy, but not a huge concern. I don't think Tessman's play comparatively to his peers matches the others on this list, but I think he's shown big improvements in the last year, and has the potential to show the same in the upcoming years. I initially thought he was just a roving #8 with size, athleticism and not a lot else, but I've seen some nice displays of skill and passing. He has all the tools. Now just needs to have them all match up.

Gray's size at CB is somewhat of a question, and I don't think he has a great touch, but he brings the ball out of the back well due to his mobility and is a reasonably good defensive player. Gomez has a good combination of tools at LB. He's also. performed well in the games I've watched. Game is reminiscent of D. Acosta. Development environment will be a question, and he's also a LB, so not a very important position. Saldana plays a very quiet game. There is no high upside here, IMO. He doesn't make many plays on either end of the game, but he's a glue guy #8. He'll help his team win games. His development environment is definitely a question though.

Cuts: Roberts, Otasowie, Hernandez-Foster, Alejandre, Judge, Hall, Pepi, Sarver, Toure, Craig

I like Roberts talent, but I often feel like he underperforms. Development environment is obviously also a big question. Otasowie looks like a pretty raw CM with athleticism and some tools. Good performances work in his favor. Only seen him play briefly. Hernandez-Foster wouldn't have been on this list prior to a couple of weeks ago. Really impressive at the LigaMX tournament. I've seen him play CB, but I think he's more of a LB. He has decent skill, some athleticism and defensive ability. Development environment is definitely a big question. There are two main questions surrounding Alejandre. Positional questions (height is a problem at CB) and not in a pro environment right now. He's a very good performer and I like his ability (mobile, good passer, smart defensive player). Worth mentioning, even if there are areas of concern.

Judge is just about the opposite of his CB partner with the U-17's. Very few questions, but I consider him to be a very boring prospect. Tools are about average across the board, and very quiet performances. His floor is relatively high though for a player of his age. Hall had an excellent playoffs. I wasn't very impressed with what I saw of him at the GA Cup, but he looked to have rounded out his game a few months later. He's from the Jaylin Lindsey, Chris Gloster mold of full-back. Will bring that type of profile. Upside is somewhat limited and he's a full-back. Pepi is very good right now, and plays a very important position, but I question his upside (doesn't make plays for himself or teammates, needs service), and then his development environment is also very questionable.

I've only seen Sarver play briefly. Excellent speed and very aggressive taking on defenders. Good goal-scoring record. I don't yet have a good idea about his skill, passing or soccer IQ. Toure is another I've only seen briefly, and neither game he played well, so I haven't seen the "hype" yet. He's obviously very young and he's a great athlete comparatively to most his age, so the typical questions for those types of players will emerge. I don't know yet how valid they are. I think he's in a very good environment to develop though at NYRB. There seems to be a consensus Rotundo and Toure are the two best 04's. I don't think its clear, but I think Craig is the third best. A lot of different tools (physical, technical, tactical), positional versatility, and I've been impressed with his play against older players. Philly is also maybe the best current environment in the USA to develop in.

 

Distinctly lukewarm is a correct characterization.

 

If you are going to claim this, you are going to need to provide some examples.

Someone else provided an example of my opinion a few posts up that proves you wrong.

You are looking to pick a fight you cannot win. What you claim doesn't prove what you think. IYou found a post from nearly four years ago when Reyna was a U-16, and I claimed he was a top 5 player in his age group. If you want to show me that I said Reyna was the 24th or 36th best player, you may have an argument, but you are not winning this fight claiming I said he was only the 5th best player in his age group as a U-16.

You are also a dishonest person. You bolded the part where I talk about some of his weaknesses, but don't bold the part where I talk about his strengths.

 

Am I mistaken or did you not rate 4 other 2002s higher than Reyna. Given that most birthyears produce only 2-3 players likely to have significant senior national team careers, I don't think anything further needs to be said.

 

It's a discussion board. I am engaging in a discussion.

 

No, you are looking to pick a fight. What other reason would you dig through someone's posts from four years ago to try to win some meaningless argument?

You are being selective in what you want to emphasize, not presenting the full picture.

You in fact know that thinking someone was top 5 (or 5th) as a U-16 is not disliking them. Heck, look at my last list. I think Owen Presthus is the 5th best U-16 right now from that list in December. I rate the player higher than his own club rates him. If Presthus is a big player in four years, are you going to tell me I was lukewarm on him?

Your attack on me is ridiculous, and I think the posts you pulled up (and others pulled up) prove that I rated Reyna.

I can accept when I'm wrong, but I do not accept your assertion that I was wrong about Reyna.

 

Is it possible to red card Justin Moran tweets?

 

cuz you accused me in a prior post of memory holing the situation...unfortunately for you the internet has a long memory

 

Are you kidding? This is how our interaction in this discussion started. I was discussing something with another poster, and you chime in with this.

You baited an argument, and now you want to claim I said something so offensive to you.

 

Or Aaronson one.

 

Another poster in the same thread (albeit with the benefit of additional time) responded: Reyna is definitely top 5.

We all have opinions. Some are way off. Some are closer to the mark.

I give credit to the poster who responded to your post by saying Reyna is definitely top 5.

 

I'll accept that I was wrong about Brenden Aaronson.

Reyna, absolutely not.

 

I don't think you said anything offensive. You used the term memory hole and I went to find something to corroborate my memory.

 

You said I think Reyna is similar to Llanez in the sense that he doesn't have huge upside.

You ranked him outside the top 4 for his birthyear. Behind luminaries such as Las, Ocampo-Chavez and Bello.

What more needs to be said.

 

I'll stop but I don't think it's off-topic to discuss whether a poster's assertion that "heads should roll" is warranted. Surely that poster's credibility in making such an assertion is a matter that falls within the purview of the thread.

 

Can you guys get a room please.

 

CJ Sapong and Mix Diskerud must be in with a shout.