The current state of our youth national teams

I don't think there are many countries who have the same type of concentration of citizens in another country as Mexico/US, though. Keep in mind it also takes a relatively organized and wealthy FA to be able to pull it off.

 

It's also useful to note that some percentage of the players called into camp for Mexico aren't even US eligible. They are far away from citizenship or are undocumented.

It's also noteworthy that the lure of Liga MX doesn't seem to be as strong as in the past. We don't see the number of really young players moving into Mexican academies as we used to as the opportunities in the US have increased.

 

To give an example of the value of international friendlies to US Soccer, here's the line item from their annual report that represents the payments made to USSF for international friendlies:

FY 2016: $4,241,754
FY 2015: $8,024,177


Obviously, that number is much lower right now, but should rebound this year and next.

It's also important to mention that there is a "soccer economy" and these games play a part in it. The stadiums have additional matches to generate revenue and employ staff to work it, referees have additional chances to make money, practice facilities make money, vendors sell more shirts and souvenirs. The more that big clubs see the US as a place to gain exposure and maybe make some money, the better it is for the overall soccer economy.

One could argue that their presence in the US hurts US teams, but, on the whole, many of these fans are committed to the club/NT already.

 

I've learned not to waste emotional energy on this subject. Mexico is going to call up who they're going to call up. These kids all WANT to attend Mexico camp. A gun isn't being put to their heads. If they have it here or in Mexico. Whatever.

We need to focus on what WE'RE doing, the players we're recruiting, and the players who want to play for us. And yes, that means competing for Mexican-Americans. Convince them that we're the better route thru actions, and not by preventing Mexico from holding camps. Same goes for dual-nationals from other nations like Poland. Be the better opportunity!!! [What I've seen from Mexico is that they have these youth camps and even senior camp sideshows in the states to expand a footprint here. But when the games actually matter, who gets the callups?]

Its the US that's back-to-back-to-back U20 CONCACAF Champions. And we would have had an unbelievable U20 squad if we'd had a 2021 cycle. We would have been the favorites. Its the US that's the current Gold Cup Champion. Its the US that's the current Nations League Champion. Not Mexico.

This obsession with what Mexico is doing smacks of some bizarre inferiority complex. Let them hold their cute little camps here. Treat them like the sad sack case that they are.

 

I can't remember very many players playing at MLS academies over the years of Mexican heritage that there was an issue with their citizenship status. While you are probably right that some non-negligible percentage of Mexican-Americans players in MLS academies are not citizens, I wouldn't be so sure that in a camp of limited numbers that there are any who have an issue with US-citizenship right now. That is unless you know of any that do. I do not from any of the names already released.

As for the latter point about LigaMX academies, I think what we've seen is that the players who join LigaMX academies are the ones that the bigger academies in their area from the MLS NEXT system ignore.

 

I'm just trying to say that not every US-based player is going to be US-eligible.

We probably see this issue more with Allianz-type players than with this specific camp (TBC, I wasn't just referencing this U16 call-up, but any camp held in the US). There are always going to be some foreign-born players who just aren't citizens, but are here legally (e.g., those awaiting asylum decisions or only have Green Cards or parents on other work visas). We often get notice that some kid in USYNT camps isn't a citizen or isn't close.

I would venture to guess that almost every academy has, at some level, a Mexican or Central American-born player without papers. Many parents avoid these higher-profile programs to minimize scrutiny.

That's just the reality when you have 5-6 million undocumented folks from futbol-mad Mexico.

 

That was the case with Andy Najar, who was discovered in a local 'unofficial' league. His family were illegal immigrants from Honduras, and DC United had to work hard to get them their papers so they all (including Andy) could be legal.

 

I never doubted the USSF made money. I would bet a large chunk of the above numbers from 8 years ago included a lot of ICC club friendlies that, at the time, drew much larger crowds than an Ecuador NT friendly (for example).

We know money is made. It is just whether the money is more important or the stopping Mexico from stealing our kids is more important.

 

Mexico isn't stealing anything.....

These are big boys (mostly), and they are perfectly capable of making a decision between representing the US or Mexico.

Rash and petty decisions based on the something that is probably not even true (i.e., the premise that the FMF neglecting its own population in order to schedule every possible friendly outside of the country will help attract dual nationals) are not the best way forward for the USSF.

Are you someone who was mad that too many games are being held in Ohio? At least those games are inside the country.

 

I assume that doesn't include the Mexico friendlies organized by SUM.

 

This is the USSF slice which probably includes the "normal" payment for international matches. They make additional money from the SUM relationship, which is probably accounted for elsewhere.

 

I don't think they do anymore though. There was a financial relationship with SUM, but that's gone now and I don't think there's any outright benefit anymore for USSF.

 

The deal terminates at the end of 2022:

https://www.espn.com/soccer/united-...-marketing-parting-ways-after-nearly-20-years

 

The contract is between FMF and SUM, so I was assuming perhaps wrongly, that the revenue was part of the $30 million SUM shared with USSF.

The SUM/USSF deal ends as does the SUM/FMF deal. The last I read SUM and FMF are in negotiations over extending the contract.

Now that SUM and USSF are getting divorced there may be an opportunity for Relevent to nip in and do a deal but FMF seems quite happy with the SUM relationship.

 

Correct. I was referring to the shared revenue relationship between USSF & SUM.

It's possible that USSF waives the normal fee for a friendly when it's scheduled using SUM. No idea how they handle revenue splits specifically. Either way, you would assume that USSF gets a good chunk from FMF when they play in the US.

Here's the FIFA rule that says the "host" federation has to approve matches played on their soil:

The Council shall be responsible for issuing regulations for organising international matches and competitions between representative teams and between leagues, club and/or scratch teams. No such match or competition shall take place without the prior permission of FIFA, the confederations and/or the member associations in accordance with the Regulations Governing International Matches.

 

Maybe it's just me but I feel like we used to have alot more of these kinds of players. I remember this being an issue with Andy Najar and Diego Fagundez back in the day.

 

Even before those two..................the Funes Mori brothers when they really came to the forefront at the FCD academy. That was right before the homegrown initiative, and the mechanism to sign players of this type to the first team wasn't established. Not Mexican (at the time anyway ). They're Argentine, but the issue was the same. We had never-ending discussions about Rogelio Funes Mori's timeline to potentially play for the US, but it wasn't happening.

Wanna know a bizarre FC Dallas love trapazoid? Former FCD midfielder Mauro Diaz has two sisters. One is married to Ramiro Funes Mori and the other is married to Rogelio Funes Mori. They're family tree looks like a shrub. [Diaz's career has tanked since being sold from FCD. Never really recovered from his Achilles injury. Right now he plays for a relatively small club in Chile.]

I'd note there were always citizenship and legal immigration status about other players of Mexican heritage in the FCD academy. Still are. That's kept behind the scenes and very private.

 

Miguel Aguilar (who had the advantage of DACA to bridge the gap) is still out there playing:

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/articles/miguel-aguilar-undocumented-galaxy

He married his college girlfriend, so he got his Green Card holder and should be a citizen by now.

DACA does help some of those players operate in the US for now and we might not hear as much as we might have in the past. Plus there are players whose parents are here waiting to hear about asylum or other visas or even wait out the time on their Green Cards to apply for citizenship (which has become expensive & takes longer than it used to).

 

I feel bad for George Bello (and Tolkin and Armour). These are the kids that’ll be compared to Gomez for the rest of their careers by USMNT fans.

Berhalter called Bello into the USMNT. He said Tolkin was close. What did Berhalter know at the time? Did he choose to prefer these players to Gomez or did Gomez refuse a USMNT call up to play for Mexico’s U-20’s?

 

Your final words are why I believe you have grossly overblown this issue. We see the final result of something, and then we opine on that result without knowing HOW we got to that point. I do it, you do it, we all do it. But seriously, you seem to be an intelligent person -- do you really believe that US soccer was not in contact with Gomez all through this time period? Of course you do not believe that. So then you have to think of WHY he would end up with the Mexican team. I would submit that the most logical belief is that he simply never gave the US enough vibes that he was willing to commit to the program. Hell, we called him up to the full team in December -- I was at the game that he played in Carson. Was there any legitimate scenario in which we were going to call him in as a 2nd division 17/18 year old for World Cup qualifiers over Bello, as a defender?? Be honest. We were going to call him up late in the qualifying cycle after he went to Sociedad, playing in their 2nd team? For goodness' sake, we were not calling up Joe Scally, who was getting reasonable 1st team minutes at Gladbach. I know you like to side with the youngsters at all costs, but that just is not a rational way of looking at this situation. The most talented kids really have all the power. If they make a choice, 9 times out of 10 it is because that is what they and their families wanted to do, and not some issue with the fed for which "heads need to roll."

 

I believe they are in contact with him, but contact doesn't mean they did everything they could. As I have long said, this is the player you do everything you possibly can to make sure he plays for you. I'm pretty confident I will be proven out as correct on that in a few years.

I don't lament every dual-national decision. I don't particularly care who Koleosho plays for. Chances are he'd never play a minute for the USMNT. Slonina doesn't matter to me much either. I don't care who Obed Vargas plays for. I don't even think he's good. This situation really does bother me.

Look, if the player simply wants to play for Mexico and there's nothing we could've done, it's a lot easier to accept. However, thats not the case. Gomez should've been provisionally cap-tied already by the USA. He should've been on the US U-17 team years back. This is something I've mentioned many times over the years, and knew could come back to haunt us. If he's on that team (and what reason is there to believe he would've rejected that cap-tying call-up?), it's a lot harder to see him playing for Mexico at the U-20 WCQ. Even if he still ends up playing for Mexico eventually, which I agree that call-up doesn't stop, you made it a lot more difficult for Mexico.

Should he have been on the senior World Cup Qualifying roster? You can say it's illogical. I'm not going to argue against the idea that a player who has never played at a significantly high level of league should be on the USMNT. Ordinarily, I'd agree with you. However, you can't treat every situation as a vacuum. Exceptions have to be made. In my opinion, Gomez is a caliber of talent that you make an exception for. Why? There probably just isn't another player coming for a few age groups at his talent level (except for the one kid in his age group, Pepi). It's possible he doesn't pan out (possible for anyone), but I think I will proven right in a few years that Gomez is the caliber of player you make an exception for. If we had to make an exception for Pulisic or McKennie to get them into the US program (hypothetically), you'd make the exception.

I also simply don't subscribe to the idea that nothing can be done or everything that could be done is being done. I think Berhalter believes that Gomez isn't yet quite good enough for the USMNT. He prefers Bello and Tolkin IMO. Maybe he's one of these naive people that thinks Paredes is a better LB than Gomez, even though Paredes has played LB like 2 or 3 games in his career. Do I think Berhalter rates Gomez? Yes, but I don't think he rates him high enough to make an exception for him. I think that'll prove to have been a very bad decision eventually.

 

Define "everything they could"?

 

And THERE is the rub. No matter what is said, any player we dont get will be branded as someone that got away because we didnt do everything we could. That is the reality, because we can always use that to justify why the big one got away. Of course, we all know that sports is littered with players who looked sure things at 16, only to be complete busts at 21 or 22. I have been wrong about players at that age myriad times, as have you, as has ussoccer97531. But if the fed doesnt call up a particular 15 year old in 2019, amongst a pool of highly rated competitors, I am to blame them when that particular now 18 year old uses it as an excuse to go elsewhere, even after he has gotten a full national team callup??? This blame game has to stop. If he leaves for Mexico 6 months after getting a full cap for the USA, a cap he got only 2 months after his 18th birthday no less while not having played a single 1st division game in his life, then he was looking for his way out all along. That aint on the fed.