The current state of our youth national teams

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by xbhaskarx, Jan 17, 2019.

  1. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States




    One week later:



    Two days later:


    [​IMG]

    What the **** is going on??
     
  2. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    It's still part of the fallout from not qualifying for the World Cup. That was a ********ing huge deal.....

    Between the shakeups that occurred with two coaching staffs, the USSF president, and the entire player pool, there has been a crazy amount of turnover that has occurred over the last year+.
     
  3. GiallorossiYank

    GiallorossiYank Member+

    Jan 20, 2011
    NJ/Roma/Napoli
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  4. AutoPenalti

    AutoPenalti Am I famous yet?

    Sep 26, 2011
    Coconut Creek
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In the end, it’s their choice. Just because they are dual nationals, doesn’t mean they should receive anymore special attention than what they already have. But then again, it is kind of strange that Berhalter doesn’t at least give some bit of recognition.
     
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  5. Lookingforleftbacks

    Galaxy
    United States
    Dec 17, 2016
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dual nationals are always going to keep their options open. 3-4 years from now, Mendez, Carleton, and whoever else could be ahead of Ledezma on the depth chart. Maybe the US will stop calling him up completely and move on. The only smart thing is for him to keep that door open just in case.
     
  6. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’m just not sure a 30 second “we’re keeping track of you keep it up” text every once in a while is “special treatment”... And if it really is, how about giving it to *all* the top YNT prospects (eg Chris Richards) not just the dual nationals? That seems preferable to ignoring them. Reminder that while our MNT people were pretty much ignoring Jonathan Gonzalez, Te Kloese was not.
     
  7. STR1

    STR1 Member

    Atlanta United
    May 29, 2010
    McAllen, TX
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh God, here we go again. Why are dual nationals, specifically Mexican Americans, going to get special treatment? You can't be calling every single "prospect" just to tell him "we are watching you". I don't know how many of you guys are actually Mexican-Americans and have Mexican family members or parents. It is not as simple as a "call" to keep these kids in the USMNT picture. Have any of you asked yourself why so many Mexican-Americans who were born here, raised here, have never lived in Mexico and just have visited Mexico a couple of times, also will more than likely live their entire lives here along with their kids and to top it off some of them can't even speak Spanish, choose to support Mexico instead of the US? It is not an easy explanation and don't think a simple "we are looking at you" will suddenly change their minds to support and represent US. As some have said already, these kids will keep their options open in case Mexico doesn't come calling or incase they do come calling.
     
  8. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    On My Squatty Potty
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I use to be a recruiter. What a top recruiting firm would do in a similar situation is rollout a coordinated attack and approach, where there is a system in place to reach out with status updates ever 60 or 90 days.

    Have your list of top 50, 100 or 150 prospects/candidates and proceed as required.

    Do it once per quarter and keep the lines of communication open. Offer feedback.

    Too much excuse making for a Fed which does a whole lotta nothing.
     
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  9. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    As distasteful as it is, and it is, dual nationals are no different than fighting over a players LOI in college recruiting. Pretending otherwise, especially in our sorry state the last half decade at the senior level, is ridiculous. We have flat out sucked. We can't sit on our hands and pretend that if a players wishy washy, we don't need to fight for him. In the modern game, for whatever reason (probably both for the pleasure and joy of playing in it, and the career opportunities that come with success in things like the World Cup) players don't treat the colors/flag as seriously as they used to in a nationalistic sense. We need to get with the program and fight for these wishy washy guys no matter how unpleasant it may feel to do so.

    If you don't want guys representing the flag/badge/etc who are wishy washy, I can understand that point of view, just we need to understand that if we don't want to play that game, we're gonna lose a key battle in the war to win in international soccer. It will impact bottom line results more and more going forward as we move towards basic levels of competency in terms of youth development at the club level, and in terms of the development of our youth clubs from the dumpster fire status we currently appear to be in despite falling rear over teakettle into a potential golden generation. If we surrender in this fight, there will be severe consequences in terms of the long term potential of the national team. We'll be fine, but we will definitely not maximize our potential. I'm just not okay with that, but I've become very cynical over the years, and am really jaded in general in sports and tend to be more bottom line these days, so maybe that explains my perspective on this.
     
  10. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I think most people on this board have absolutely zero clue what's going on behind the scenes. I don't. Its just fun saying they're "doing nothing." I mean..............do people actually know that Stewart and Berhalter haven't been in touch with these dual prospects? Or are people taking a post on twitter as the gospel truth? We should know better.....................

    Plus, that particular tweet in the original post is about Ledesma, Mendez, and Dest. Three players that are actually in the US program representing the USYNTs in major competitions (Ledesma was hurt for the CONCACAF U20 Championships or he'd have been there too.) We want Earnie Stewart and Greg Berhalter to call up kids on a routine basis to say "we're watching you,"....................when they're already in the US program? Of course we're watching them. It's mindless.

    The tweeter concedes that as youth technical director, its Tab's job to do that. And in fact, he is doing that. He was doing that with Jonathan Gonzalez. [Somehow he's blamed for losing Jonathan Gonzalez, when he's the one who called up Jonathan Gonzalez before any of knew who he was.] I don't know what folks expect the USSF to do.

    Anybody else think that Dave Sarachan actually got it right when he called in Weston McKennie and Tyler Adams instead of Jonathan Gonzalez to that much-discussed Portugal friendly? Anybody else notice that Mexico seems to have lost interest in Gonzalez recently? He may not even make their Olympic roster. That maybe the STORY of Gonzalez switching has actually gotten bigger than the talent of the player? I mean, maybe just maybe..........the world will continue to revolve without Gonzalez on the USMNT?

    And for the bazzillionth time, people need to stop freaking out every time a youngster says he's keeping his options open. That's what they SHOULD say. For Pete's sake, are people this insecure? You think that fans of other national teams praising their play on Instagram and Twitter is enough to get them to switch? God........................
     
  11. bshredder

    bshredder BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 23, 1999
    Club:
    Millwall FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When I clicked on the a thread titled "current state of our youth national teams" I was expecting to see people happy and pumped. The U.S. U-20 team has advanced to the last two WC quarterfinals (while missing its two best players in 2017) and has won CONCACAF two straight times. Its prospects for 2019 are strong. The U.S. U-17 is also plugging along and getting decent enough results and churning out prospects.

    But hey, all those results mean nothing unless you are texting your dual nationals
     
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  12. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's a great point and if the US can keep improving and leave the rest of CONCACAF behind the better players will want to play for the US. Still may have some switch to the Germanys, Frances and Brazils of the world but the youth juggernaut is already starting to trickle to the full team. If it's not a golden generation but a new normal everything will take care of itself.
     
  13. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Again, being a dual-national myself and having observed two decades of players 90% of all decisions boil down to this: first come, first served. If you are a non-capped YNT, you will go to the first country to give you a YNT cap. If you are a capped YNT you will switch given the opportunity for a full NT cap. The only times I have seen this not be the case is where the player has a reasonable opportunity with a much larger NT team.
     
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  14. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #14 xbhaskarx, Jan 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
    I mean you could actually read the tweets, since they answer your question. This guy regularly interviews USYNT prospects (including all three of the ones mentioned, Dest, Ledezma, Mendez) on his podcast, and even interviewed Tab Ramos recently.

    And yet you're saying people shouldn't believe his statements? Based on what, exactly? Can you cite any reporting from any other source that contradicts any of what he said? Why would he make it up? What's the conspiracy theory here, he may have interviewed Ledezma for his podcast, but he didn't actually ask him if he'd ever heard form Stewart or Berhalter, and instead concocted a fictitious "no" answer out of thin air after the fact? It really doesn't help your credibility about anything to be so cavalier in dismissing the credibility of others... that statement above is Birtherism-level. "We should know better" lol









    Wow that is absolutely brilliant... clearly you are a Klinsmann level tactical genius! How many players get called in for a typical friendly? Do all of them even need to be starting, or are there guys on the bench and perhaps even some who don't make the 18? Nice false dichotomy you've created in your head there. Sarachan had to choose between McKennie and Adams vs Gonzalez with a gun at his head and he chose the former, yes that was a great move on his part if that's really how it went down. Oh and all three could even play at the same time (mind blowing I know): say a 4-3-3 with JoGo behind the other two. But again, that wasn't the only option, because there is an entire roster. Hell Klinsmann sometimes called guys into their first camp just to get them familiarized with the team, not even to play.

    Who cares about where Gonzelez stands with the Mexican national team right now?? What is the relevance? Where would he with the US? Our three main options for the #6 role are currently

    - Bradley, who is already on the wrong side of 30, was bad in MLS last year, and is hated by 60% of the fanbase

    - Trapp, who at 26 is already a known quantity, and that is "not good enough to cut it against any decent national team"

    - Canouse, who is a complete unknown at the international level

    Seriously, that is on the level of the people who try to justify Klinsmann not taking Donovan to the World Cup. As if we didn't use roster spots on Wondo, Brad Davis, Julian Green, Aron Johansson, and Mix Diskerud.

    But good to see you've already made your mind up about a 19 year old kid who was Bext XI in LigaMX at age 18, based on how a national team that beat Germany at the World Cup currently values him... unfortunately we're fans of the national team that lost to Trinidad and freaking Tobago, though.
     
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  15. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    I would go a little farther. I have never seen a US U-20 team dominate CONCACAF like they did this cycle.
    • Top to bottom domination against all top teams. Only top team they didn't play was Panama.
    • Mexico had all their best players except for Jonathan Gonzalez. The US was missing many. It's open to argument how many were missing but assuredly Adams, Sargent, Weah and Amon would have been upgrades.
    • In this age group, Mexican-Americans developed in the US are better than their Mexican peers. In particular, they have no player like Mendez except for Jonathan Gonzalez who has been partially developed in the US.
    For the first time in memory, I am comfortable in saying that we have developed a group of players that surpasses the same group in Mexico.
     
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  16. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #16 xbhaskarx, Jan 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
    False dichotomies, how do they work?
    [​IMG]

    Yes if the federation could only choose one option between the U-20s performing well and having Earnie Stewart be in occasional contact with top YNT prospects, they made the right choice in going with the former.
    Clearly the opportunity cost of sending a few texts is far too great to risk it....

    ====

    Oh and this is also in the top post:
    [​IMG]

    If youth national team results are so important, having only three head coaches for seven youth national teams, cutting programming, and functioning without hired goalkeeper coaches all seems less than ideal, doesn't it? Yes a lot of that may be a temporary state (I believe at least one hire has been made since this interview), but perhaps it's understandable that the snail's pace at which many things have been moving over the last year (not just YNT-related, the technical director and coaching hires, certain things on the women's side, etc.) doesn't really inspire confidence?
     
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  17. USSoccerNova

    USSoccerNova Member+

    Sep 28, 2005
    I am happy and pumped for the reasons you mention! Our YNTs have never been in better shape and this will continue as long as investment continues at the current or higher levels.

    This is far too cynical. I've long advocated having someone whose job it is to help the YNT coaches have more positive touchpoints with top talent and their agents/parents, especially dual nationals. Similar to the role te Kloese had with Mexico which seemingly helped with Gonzalez and Alvarez. That's not being unfairly critical, but instead holding an organization accountable for execution to a reasonably high standard.

    You're an excellent poster in a lot of ways and I value your opinions and contributions to this board, but for God's sake stop using "we" in posts when you clearly mean the plural "you". Also stop lumping everyone's opinions into black and white buckets (with you conveniently in the reasonable bucket) instead of acknowledging the nuance of individual posts and their specific place on the reasonableness spectrum.
     
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  18. Kombucha

    Kombucha Member

    Jul 1, 2016
    Club:
    --other--
    This seems much ado about nothing in my opinion.

    Just being on the USYNT is courting a player and shows that the federation both values them and stays in contact with them.

    I don't really see the value in the USMNT Coach having to send love notes to 18 year olds.
     
  19. bshredder

    bshredder BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 23, 1999
    Club:
    Millwall FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #19 bshredder, Jan 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
    Thank you for writing my thoughts so clearly.

    Just to add on, the best recruitment tool is winning.

    With the U.S. U-20 team flying high for a third straight cycle, that is the best recruitment tool you could ever want. The names I see mentioned here, Ledezma and Mendez, are going to be on a U-20 team that could make a really long run at the World Cup summer.

    If they pack up and leave right after the tournament (and I don't think they will), then they didn't really want to play for the United States in the first place.

    We're talking about two talented players who haven't even played a professional game. Having them be on a U-20 World Cup team is exactly where they should be as top prospects. It's crazy to think that U.S. Soccer isn't doing their job with these players. Youth national teams exist for just this reason.
     
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  20. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    SJ Earthquakes/Arsenal
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Pleasanton, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would hope our coaches are too busy scouting prospects, running camps, and coaching tournaments to have to send out recruiting texts.

    Hell, D1 schools hire professional recruiting coordinators to do that. I'd hope the MNT would at least get someone who's a professional at recruitment if we're going to conduct a charm offensive on all of our dual-nationals.
     
  21. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I don't think its the role of Earnie or Greg to call up a player that has never played a professional game. I don't think its their job to call up Andrew Carleton or Paxton Pomykal or George Bello..................much less the dual-nationals we're talking about. Dual-nationals don't get special treatment from me. Its our youth technical director's job to do that. That's Tab Ramos, and he is doing that! Its the appropriate USYNT coach that's scouting them for their squad to do that. So for the U20s that's also Tab. And when we have a U23 coach, I think that person will also be in touch with them. When they're even in the ballpark of the USMNT, then the USMNT coach should call them. I think its likely that our U23 coach will be Josh Wolf, who is a USMNT assistant. So there will be good synergy there.

    I don't think its Greg Berhalter's job to say he's "watching them," probably because he isn't watching them. Where are people watching Richie Ledesma? Does somebody have a drone above PSV?

    And yes..................I think the STORY of Jonathan Gonzalez has always been bigger than the talent of the player. Do I wish he was still in the USMNT pool? Of course. Why wouldn't I? I want our pool to be as big as possible. Do I pine for him? No. Adios.
     
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  22. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]
     
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  23. Runhard

    Runhard Member

    Barcelona
    United States
    Jul 5, 2018

    Spot on. It's silly the US coaches should bend over backwards for these guys. If they want to play for the US and the coach thinks they can play, offer them a spot. If not, then move on. If a kid needs you to cater to his ego and send him sweet little text messages then he may not be the kid you are looking for anyway.
     
  24. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Brb gonna tell my mom that taking 15 seconds to send a text is considered "bending over backwards" so she stops bugging me...
    And for the millionth time it doesn't have to just be about "these guys", some US equivalent of te Kloese could also keep in touch with non-dual nationals.
     
  25. Runhard

    Runhard Member

    Barcelona
    United States
    Jul 5, 2018
    I don't care if its dual nationals or just US Citizen kids, I don't think the head coach of the first team or the US Soccer GM needs to send kids text messages. Let them earn the distinction to have a relationship with the first team coach by being called to a first team camp. Until then, sure the U20 and U23 coaches can text them, call them, and send them birthday cards.

    If it takes text messages from Berhalter to convince a kid to play for the US, then I don't think we want him.
     

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