The current state of our youth national teams (2026 cycle)

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by TheFalseNine, Dec 5, 2022.

  1. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If that’s the case the good thing is he doesn’t have to file a switch and he can’t do anything with Bosnia until September.

    Time for Berhalter and others to talk with him and try to bring him back on board. And also some time where he can blow off steam about the Olympics.
     
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  2. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Let's hope so because Clint Dempsey and Carly Lloyd were just discussing on national television the lack of young top level talent coming through given the USMNT are the first Copa America hosts to fail to advance out of the group stage, and has failed to advance after winning its opening group stage match of a tournament for the first time after having previously advanced all 23 times it did so... of course I doubt they pay much attention to youth national teams so what do they know... but then they're also making those comments without knowing that 2005 dual nat prospects are currently dropping like flies (Vargas, Buck, Esmir)...
     
  3. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    It isn't all rosy.

    The 08s and 09s will give the senior a shot in the arm. But that's several years away.

    Collectively the 04-07 group is subpar. They will mostly help to improve the senior team's depth. Not a bad thang. But not great either.

    There is one potentially very important contribution this group could make. Which is to upgrade the CBs on the senior team. The leading candidates in descending order of potential are: Banks (06), Akinmboni (06), Wynder (05), Pierre(07). Plus the slightly older Jalen Neal (03).

    If 2 of the CBs (and I don't care whether it is the five mentioned above or someone else) come good that will more than make up for the overall mediocrity of the 04-07 birthyears.

    As a bonus there is Kochen (06).

    The overall mediocrity of the 04-07 birthyears would not matter if we get the players we need at CB and goalie from those cohorts.
     
  4. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    8 2005s
    8 2006s
    11 2007s
    12 2008s
    11 2009s

    Top 50 U.S. Eligible Prospects

    July 2024

     
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  5. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    It'll be really interesting to see how many of these guys really take the next step to be special (aka Pulisic) and how many can leverage themselves to the next step down (McKennie / Adams, etc.).

    The hype always seems deep, but we'll need 10-12 to complement and then replace the current core ... and hopefully at a step up.

    Can this group do it?

    Do they have steps forward in tactical and skills? Is there enough athleticism? Are they mentally strong enough or are they still in the "we're hot shit ... for Americans" phase?
     
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  6. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    If we ever want to reach top 10 level we need to produce Pulisic per year.
     
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  7. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Yep.

    And the next step is maybe having 4-5 on the roster? We have one. Maybe one or two guys that could become him. And while I like our younger guys, Pulisic will be aging out as they are aging in.

    I think with 4-5 and really strong depth you can creep into the back end of the Top 10 -- that's Uruguay, maybe the Dutch right now, etc.
     
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  8. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    And among those we need to have some leaders as we have zero Donovans, Dempseys, Howards, Bocanegras, Bradleys on this team. Additionally to our unique coach totally lacking leadership quality.
     
  9. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Let's not forget that most of these kids are dual nats, or even tri nats... there's at least one quad nat. I don't follow close enough to know how committed all 50 are to the US program as of this moment, but we know there are issues with 16 Esmir and 18 Buck already... assuming Obed Vargas would have been somewhere on this list if he hadn't switched as well.

    As far as "current state" trajectory, the 2004s are not on this list so I wondered how many could make the top 50 if eligible... here's the top 10:

    I think 99% would agree 4 minimum 5 maximum... if Owen Wolff and Noah Allen are making our top 50 prospects we are in bad shape... but my point is that shows a positive trajectory if we add it to the other years:

    5 2004s
    8 2005s
    8 2006s
    11 2007s
    12 2008s
    11 2009s
     
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  10. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    thread
     
  11. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    10 Pulisic's per year? Pulisic was a top 15 player in Serie A this year. There weren't 100 better footballers in the world than him this year.

    If we produce 1 Pulisic per year and 1 Adams we'll be pretty great.
     
  12. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Among our attacking prospects the only ones that I think have a chance of reaching that level are Sullivan, Berchimas and Albert.

    If we want to talk about our best attackers (+ attacking prospects) it looks like this:

    Pulisic (98)
    Balogun (01)
    Reyna (02)
    Berchimas (08)
    Albert (09)
    Sullivan (09)

    There is this unfortunate gap between Reyna and Berchimas.
     
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  13. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    re-read the post you quoted...it called for 1 Pulisic per year

    I would settle for one every other year and also one elite defensive player such as Adams every other year. Or if 1 elite player (every year) without distinguishing whether they are an attacking or defensive player.
     
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  14. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #189 xbhaskarx, Jul 2, 2024
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2024
    "1 Pulisic a year" doesn't have to mean attackers, right?

    So on average one of:
    2000: Dest, Richards, Weah, Sargent, Aaronson, Ferreira, Celentano, Sands
    2001: Balogun, Cardoso, Tessmann, Booth, Schulte, Morris, Bassett, Reynolds, McGuire
    2002: Reyna, Musah, Tillman, Scally, Busio, Lund, Yow, Tolkin, Kamungo, Tomkinson
    2003: Pepi, Neal, Aaronson, Paredes, Luna, McGlynn, Cowell
    2004: Koleosho, Wiley, Brady, Slonina, Pukstas, Downs
    2005: Esmir, Cremaschi, Buck, RBW, Tsakiris, Duru, Fletcher, Wynder
    2006: Kochen, Banks, Akinmboni, Barajas, Olney, Figueroa, Soma, Campbell
    2007: Pierre, McFarlane, Gozo, Miller, Allen, Baiera, Meiser, Turner, Fisher, Worth, Culbreath
    2008: Berchimas, Carrizo, Terry, Hall, Okoduwa, Staff, James, Oliviera, Adams, Jones, Johnson, Hamouda
    2009: Sullivan, Spivey, Albert, Mehmeti, Romero, Forfor, Avalos, Hassan, Borges, Cadet, Simmons

    In any case it will just more likely over the years, more US-eligible kids across the world, more established MLS academies and even USL academies... people criticize MLS development from the past but the good news is it can only get better... also can't hurt that the US is both big and wealthy.

    (This is pretty much the top 50 list above plus USMNT and U-23 call ups so no offense if your favorite prospect isn't listed or some guy is listed who actually sucks)
     
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  15. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    #190 Maximum Optimal, Jul 3, 2024
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2024
    Development is a funny thing. It is rarely linear. There are players who break into national teams (even very strong ones) as teenagers. Most of them go on to be stars, but sometimes they stagnate or regress.

    The group from the list above that I'm more interested in are the ones in their early 20s who are not currently core members of the senior team but potentially have some significant development ahead. I think this is the group that could push some of the current incumbents on the senior team and enhance overall depth.

    I'm going to list them based on my assessment of their potential importance to the senior team by 2026:

    1) Kevin Paredes. We don't have many lefties. He could balance out the team by giving us an inverted winger opposite to Pulisic. I think he has the potential to take Weah's spot in the lineup. I would add he is not just competing with Weah. Other players who could push Weah over the next two years include Sargent, Aaronson and Wright. I thought Paredes had a strong season with Wolfsburg last season and was often their best attacking player. Sometimes they used him more defensively but he was more valuable as an attacking player.

    2) Gianluca Busio. He has the potential to give us a little bit different flavor in midfield. Not as powerful or athletic as Adams, McKennie and Musah. But a better passer than all three and has the ability to set a tempo from a deep-lying position.

    3) Jalen Neal. CB is an area of need. Neal has the potential to combine solid defending with composure on the ball.

    4) Tanner Tessmann. A lot of clubs like him, including apparently Inter Milan. He could push Cardoso as Adams' understudy. I don't see either supplanting Adams. But with Adams' injury risk we want a couple competent understudies.

    5) Caleb Wiley. He will compete with Lund over the next couple years to be our backup left back. Longer term I think he will be Jedi's successor. Not everyone can walk in a Jedi's footsteps, but I think Caleb can.

    6) Slonina/Schulte/Kochen. We need one to develop and develop fast.

    7) Cowell. Would give us a more robust presence on the wings. Could develop as a center forward.

    8) Luna. Would give us an element of unpredictability either as a wide player or attacking midfielder.

    9) Trusty. Took his lumps in the Premier League but I like the raw material.

    10) McKenzie. More polished than Trusty at this point.

    11) Wynder. Further away from being ready than Neal, Trusty and McKenizie. But another candidate who could provide an upgrade at CB.

    12) Banks. Even younger than Wynder. But there is a path for rapid advancement. The youth CB with the most upside in our system.

    13) Malik Tillman. Could provide quality depth at either attacking mid or wide. I initially forgot about him and am adding him here. Should be higher on the list. At about #5.
     
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  16. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    #191 Maximum Optimal, Jul 3, 2024
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2024
    Longer term the ones I see having the largest impact are:

    1) Sullivan. He and Reyna will be the midfield bosses at the 2030 WC.

    2) Berchimas. Will be starting as a wide attacking player by 2030.

    3) Albert. Could be starting opposite Berchimas, but I suspect Pulisic at age 31 will still be in the picture.

    4) Banks. I put him on both lists. He would have to develop very fast for a CB to make an impact in 2026. Will be surprised if he is not a starter by 2030.

    5) Jamir Johnson. I seem to be higher on him than anyone else. He will push Berchimas and Albert.

    6) Terry. Potential starter as our 6. Adams will be 31 at the 2030 WC.

    7) Akinmboni. Has a chance to be Banks CB partner from the U20s to the senior team.

    8) Kochen. The highest upside of our goalie prospects.

    9) Figueroa. The best of our center forward prospects. Could challenge Balogun, Pepi and Sargent.
     
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  17. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    And as a final bonus 3 that didn't make either list but who I have a high regard for:

    1) Campbell. Could fit in as an attacking mid or wide player. The competition is stiff but he is very talented.

    2) Medina. I seem to be the last person who still rates him highly.

    3) Kimbrough. A 2010. Could become our best center forward. Or might develop more as an attacking mid.
     
  18. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sure but would Pulisic start for a France, England, Brazil, or Germany?

    Those sorts of teams have players better than Pulisic and they have them all over the field.

    I agree with you that one Pulisic a year and one Adams type player a year and we’d be pretty good. But still not quite where the elite teams are.
     
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  19. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    One Pulisic and one Adams type per year is not something we've come close to on a sustained basis. I'd happily settle for one Pulisic OR one Adams type per year.

    Having said that. If the 2008 and 2009 birthyears are the new normal then all bets are off. I'm an optimist but I'm not that much of an optimist. Most likely those two birthyears are aberrations.
     
  20. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    One Pulisic per year.

    World Cup contenders put out an entire lineup of more or less Pulisic-level players, though some are at less obviously impactful positions.
     
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  21. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'll take that bet. Not that I know anything about any specific birth year beyond what the prospect watchers say. I just believe the overall level will continue to improve. For example I said elsewhere that we're not getting nearly enough out of SoCal, well we have San Diego FC just now coming online, what if that encourages the current SoCal teams to step up their game and soon we have three top MLS academies on SoCal which is pretty much the most important region in the country? Seems more likely than not. So while I won't bet that the 2010 group specifically will be at the same level as 2008 - 2009, I'd bet that the average of the 2010-2015 groups is around the same level. If not better.

    2008: Berchimas, Carrizo, Terry, Hall, Okoduwa, Staff, James, Oliviera, Adams, Jones, Johnson, Hamouda
    2009: Sullivan, Spivey, Albert, Mehmeti, Romero, Forfor, Avalos, Hassan, Borges, Cadet, Simmons​
     
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  22. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    #197 Maximum Optimal, Jul 3, 2024
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2024
    The overall level will improve. But I'm willing to bet birthyears 2010-15 on average will be below 2008 and 2009.

    Since 2010-16 covers 6 years, they would have to produce 3 Cavans, and 3 times the volume of Berchimas, Carrizo, Terry, Hall, Johnson, Spivey, Albert, Hassan, etc, etc.

    I think you are underestimating how much it is that the creme de la creme is what matters each birthyear for senior team purposes. And moreover underestimating how special the 08s and 09s are. If we can sustain the 08s and 09s we are in France, Brazil, Argentina territory. It aint happening. Not that fast anyhow.
     
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  23. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Okay so we have a bet. I guess we'll find out in... half a decade.
     
  24. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Yup. Something to look forward to. I'd be happy if you won.
     
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  25. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    At least for me, correct. In fact, you wouldn't want that.

    I think you need at least 10-12 Pulisic level players to be up there -- you're still not France because there's no Messi inherently there, but I think if we have 12 of them, one of them would be a big star.

    To be around Uruguay, I think a Pulisic every 2 years and then quality depth. You still don't have Valverde or Suarez in that ... but, close enough for government work.

    I hope to see improvement but I don't see that level, really.
     
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