The Continuing California Proposition Thread

Discussion in 'Elections' started by Smurfquake, Apr 29, 2009.

  1. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    I'm leaning towards a strong yes on Prop 22. AB5 had good intentions, but they executed horribly. My wife is a small business owner, and she can't really hire local 1099s to help her with group therapy sessions (she's a psychologist) - because that falls outside of "the normal scope of the hiring organization’s business", and she couldn't afford to hire a W2 full time employee.

    They needed to do a much better job of writing the rules for that bill.
     
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  2. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    We have a GOOD income, and we can not afford to live in the Bay Area long term, if you want that home to be of reasonable size, in a good school district, have a yard, and a decent view of something.

    We're likely going to move to SD, where at least if you can scrabble enough cash to get a 1.5M home, you'll get a home with a view, and a yard, and a decent school.
     
  3. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Move to Naperville, You'll get this for $1.5 million, and the public schools are as good as anywhere in the country.

    https://www.redfin.com/IL/Naperville/2275-Lisson-Rd-60565/home/23396977

    Our weather, of course, is better than San Diego's, too.
     
  4. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You can get all that with great mountain views around here for about 1/3 the money.
     
  5. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    Trying to get my wife out of California would be easier than keeping Trump in the White House
     
  6. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
  7. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Already too many Californians around here, so it's all good. ;)
     
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  8. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    I may as well lodge my discontent over the entire concept of Ballot Initiatives.

    Shall we make a wide ranging and impacting law? Let's ask these surfer dudes smoking pot on a beach. Surely they'll have enough knowledge on this matter.
     
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  9. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    Hell, I don't feel like I have enough policy knowledge to truly respond to this stuff. How the ******** should I definitively know how these tax changes and repeals will impact economic outcomes in California? Do I look like an economist to you? I'm just some random Data Analyst who watches sports and reads books, and gets a bunch of news from Twitter and newspapers. Those are not qualifications for me to make decisions on school bonds.
     
  10. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    And, as your next post reveals, people like us aren't much better qualified.
     
  11. Smurfquake

    Smurfquake Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 8, 2000
    San Carlos, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I saw a weird endorsement for Proposition 16 today. Proposition 16 will re-establish affirmative action in state universities, which was removed by Proposition 209 in 1996. You see, back in the 90s (*), Republicans still had some influence on state politics - California voted for a Republican for President as recently as 1988 (G.H.W. Bush) and elected a Republican governor (Pete Wilson) in 1990 and 1994 (Schwarzenegger doesn't really count since he got elected under weird circumstances in the recall election). But the 90s were also a time when bad Republican ideas could still be approved in statewide propositions, such as proposition 187 in 1994 and proposition 209 in 1996. In other words, California wasn't solid deep blue back in the 90s - people who look at California today may not realize that it was still kinda purple less than 30 years ago.

    So back to proposition 16 - it is trying to undo proposition 209 from 1996, which was supposed to be one of those "I don't see color" things that libertarians like to profess while ignoring the structural racism that exists in society. I understand there are arguments against affirmative action - there was some discussion in the Racism thread on the main P&CE forum a week or two ago - but to me, this proposition is binary, either we put pre-1996 affirmative action back on the books, or we don't, and if Republicans are opposed to this because they prefer white supremacy, I'm not going to join them because it's not good enough. Maybe people who have better ideas for replacing affirmative action can put those ideas on the ballot next time - for now, the choice is affirmative action or agree with Republicans.

    Anyways, I'll post the endorsement in tweet form since that's how I saw it.



    A bunch of Bay Area pro sports teams - I think this is all of the major league teams in the area, since the Raiders have left for Las Vegas - but I'm not sure why the third division Oakland Roots soccer team is here, what, were the Sonoma County Sol unavailable? - anyways, a bunch of pro sports teams have come out in favor of Proposition 16. I'm not sure why they decided to weigh in. It seems unusual for sportsball teams to be taking a side in a partisan issue - I mean, Republicans buy tickets to ballgames too. I'm not sure why they would care one way or the other, or why they would risk alienating a subset (possibly a tiny subset, but still...) of their potential fan base.

    (*) back in the 90s, I wasn't on a very famous TV show, but you might hear the Bojack Horseman theme song when you read that phrase.
     
  12. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    I've actually got some doubts about whether this passes. Like in the 1990s, I actually think affirmative action (especially as it applies to higher education) cuts across the liberal coalition.
     
  13. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    But...we have great weather...and natural outdoor fireplaces.
     
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  14. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    Lyft is shutting down tonight, Uber likely to follow.

    In no way am I defending the exploitation of Uber/Lyft drivers by Uber/Lyft...what AB5 does is the wrong way to fix it. This law needs to go
     
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  15. Smurfquake

    Smurfquake Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 8, 2000
    San Carlos, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's pretty much the conclusion that I have come to as well. The goal of AB5 was to protect gig workers, but it broke a bunch of other industries. People in those other industries tried to talk to the legislators to get the problems fixed before the bill was passed, and the legislators didn't listen, they just barreled on ahead with their broken solution. That's a failure of legislation - they should have written better legislation to not break stuff that didn't need to be broken.
     
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  16. Nacional Tijuana

    Nacional Tijuana St. Louis City

    St. Louis City SC
    May 6, 2003
    San Diego, Calif.
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  17. Nacional Tijuana

    Nacional Tijuana St. Louis City

    St. Louis City SC
    May 6, 2003
    San Diego, Calif.
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've never done Lyft or Uber. Back in Pittsburgh, PA, in the 00's, there were all sorts of unmarked cabs (forget the general name), and I took a few of those. Always kind of creeped out, but they were much more abundant than Yellow.
     
  18. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
  19. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ehhhhh. On the other hand, maybe those companies should have actually built their company correctly and paid their workers what they were actually worth. The abuse of the "independent contractor" label is rampant within the US labor force and the entire "gig economy" is built on it. People talk about how disruptive companies like Uber and Lyft are, but the main reason for that isn't because of the tech, it was because they underpaid their workers and were able to undercut their competitors on price.
     
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  20. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    That's fair, but the way the law was written it means my wife can't hire a part time contractor, and there's a huge difference between 1099 workers and W-2 workers. That's the problem. The way they wrote that law it had WAY too many fallouts.
     
  21. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    While I'm somewhat sympathetic to your wife, there are ways to adjust for the increased costs of hiring a part time employee vs. a part time contractor. Which is an entirely different issue with the US economy and why it is broken.
     
  22. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I will help Nacional TJ

    A judge extended the timeline before they have to comply or shutdown.

    They are still trying to argue that the new law does not apply to them

     
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  23. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Except that it is mostly the contractors themselves who are the most outspoken against this atrocity of a bill. Really if the legislators wanted to kick out Uber and Lyft from California they could have just outlawed them outright without screwing with all those workers who chose their careers and their industries precisely because they wanted the freedom to work independently as contractors, and have been doing so successfully for many years. This bill is an example of Big Brother knows best at its worst.
     
  24. Q*bert Jones III

    Q*bert Jones III The People's Poet

    Feb 12, 2005
    Woodstock, NY
    Club:
    DC United
    As one of those workers who chose their career and their industry precisely because they wanted the freedom to work independently as contractors, I can tell you unequivocally that none of us wants to be an independent contractor. It just turns out that the companies that used to hire people don't want to be on the hook for our guaranteed salaries or our benefits.

    Being a gig worker is an objectively shitty life. It's 1:14am EST and I've been working non stop since 8am. Next week I'll be watching Oprah all day every day.
     
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  25. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And yet it is also the contractors themselves that want to be made employees. ;)
     
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