The coaching: Brazil Post Game discussion [R]

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by thesoccerphantom, Sep 27, 2007.

  1. thesoccerphantom

    Nov 4, 2004
    Dallas Texas
    I will get this going. Its going to be a huge topic and the title will keep it all in one forum. Thanks for the suggestion, I did edit the title.

    I am incensed with Ryan and the decisions made in the last 24 hours regarding the WNT. Proof to me that he has a super ego that got in the way of good sound decision making in the semi finals of the world cup. Brazil in the second half was pushing our face in it. They were not content to savor the win. They wanted to run it up.

    1) Starting Scurry instead of Solo. Unfair to Bri to even put her in that position. The team chemistry was put in jeopardy. Solos' head has to be totally screwed up, can she recover. t She got them there. Bris' tentativeness on the field was evident. Ryan said he'd take the heat. I'd fire him.

    2) This is detrimental to the short term future of the WNT. Olympics are 12 months away. It will take months to get their heads around this embarrassment. Other WNT games coming up in the consolation round and in the next 2 months. ugh....... We needed this PR to gain momentum for the restart of the professional league in 2 years. This is indirectly a set back.

    3) I hope someone can explain the subs made in the second half. Why are Kai and Tarp on the bench while he subs in people who have not played one minute in world cup instead of putting some offense in to score some goals. Fire him again.

    4) Shoot me. As I am writing they just scored their 4th goal. They are pushing our face in it.

    Have at it.
    I am so beside myself with the stupidity.

  2. Motterman

    Motterman Member

    Jul 8, 2002
    Orlando, FL
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Fire Ryan

    Thread title kinda implies the result, can you change temporarily?
  3. BlitzSpiele

    BlitzSpiele Member

    Sep 7, 2007
    Re: Fire Ryan

    To what, the "Greg Ryan Pile-on Thread"?
  4. jc in nh

    jc in nh Member

    Jul 26, 2000
    Canterbury, NH
    Re: Ryan ?????

    Good points here. I was unable to watch the match, but was flabbergasted by the last two subs in particular - nothing against them, but what a way to enter the World Cup!! And you're right, it put Bri in a terrible position.

    Tony D mentioned yesterday that Colleen Hacker wasn't with the team in China. At the very least this all bespeaks a total lack of understanding/respect for things like team chemistry, mental preparation, etc.

    Can't wait to see what BEULAH has to say about all this!

    PS Time to lure Pia Sundhage away from the Chinese team, I say!

    HSEUPASSION New Member

    Apr 16, 2005
    Duck, NC
    Re: Ryan ????? [R]

    I've just put my Football Manager resume in the mail, honestly. (Yes, I'm stealing it from the Boro fan)

    Lets see you match this shiz, Ryan:

    Football Club København (Denmark)
    Tenure: 2006 – 2010 (2/19/2010 Game time, Still at job)
    Honors: 2006/2007 – Danish Super Cup (1), Danish Cup (1), Royal League (1), Danish Premier Division (1)
    2007/2008 – Danish Super Cup (2), Danish Cup (2), Royal League (2), Danish Premier Division (2), UEFA Champions League Runner Up (1)
    2008/2009 – Danish Super Cup (3), Danish Cup (3), Royal League (3), Danish Premier Division (3), UEFA Cup (1)
    2009/2010 (in progress) – Danish Super Cup (4)
    Misc. – 57-match unbeaten run in the league (active), the Chairman wants to have my babies.

    Half that was with Westberg in goal, son.
  6. CVAL

    CVAL Member

    Dec 8, 2004
    Re: Ryan ????? [R]

    This is a wakeup call to the USA and the style of play. They need to find players that are creative and good on the ball not just big and fast.

    The USA has these type of players just not the coaching recognize it.
  7. BlitzSpiele

    BlitzSpiele Member

    Sep 7, 2007
  8. kcguru

    kcguru Member

    Jun 16, 2007
    Re: Ryan ????? [R]

    Did Tarpley kill his dog or something? Because she is going to have to buy tickets to get on the field! The last subs were an absolute joke. I would've kept Lopez in, yeah, she was getting beat but you could've definitely used the subs elsewhere. Put Lloyd in for Boxx, then sub Kai and Tarp in. Maybe that wouldn't have worked but anything might've been better than this. This was a joke. You don't play a man down an entire half in the semifinals against Brazil. And then to hear him use that as a reason for the loss... He actually said in an interview "I don't think the goalkeeper switch had anything to do with it. Playing a man down hurt us." Well why the hell didn't you sub you idiot????? You didn't have to play a man down!!! I'm getting so pissed that all my rational reasoning is flying out the window and all I wanna do is just sit and scream vulgarities at the man!
  9. tarheelfan490

    tarheelfan490 New Member

    Nov 12, 2004
    arlington, va
    Re: Ryan ????? [R]

    ryan said that if he made a mistake he could live with it (sorry, can't find the exact quote right now). well, i'm glad his conscience is clear. sure, it didn't win us a world cup and got us humiliated in the semis, but at least i can rest easy knowing greg ryan will be able to sleep tonight. what an idiot. fire him immediately. he shouldn't have a job when he lands back in the us.
  10. RegionIIFutbolr

    Jul 4, 2005
    Region 2
    Re: Ryan ????? [R]

    I cant agree more!! And the same thing is happening in our youth Natl teams. They are looking at the bigger girls and not really the creative players. Team Wambach doesnt work. :eek:
  11. kcguru

    kcguru Member

    Jun 16, 2007
    Re: Ryan ????? [R]

    I was floored by that as well. Gee, I'm glad you're ok with the fact that your mistake cost Lil, Bri, Kate, Christie, and possibly Aly and who knows who else, their last chance at a World Cup championship. Just because you can live with it doesn't mean other players can.
  12. Julius

    Julius New Member

    Oct 5, 2003
    Philadelphia, PA
    Re: Ryan ?????

    The game will be re-aired on ESPN classic at 5 PM ET today and 10 PM ET tonight on ESPN2.
  13. frodoguevara

    frodoguevara Member

    Mar 25, 2006
    Charlotte, NC
    Charlotte Eagles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Ryan ????? [R]

    While i cannot disagree with most of your assessments in regards to Ryan on this post I'd also like to point out that the officiating during this game didn't really go to our favor either. The Ref's in this WC as a whole have made some very questionable calls, and didn't call some obvious fouls. This game was no exception. Boxx's ejection was totally unwarranted, and that pretty much put the nail in the coffin as far as the match was concerned. failing to anticipate playing a team member down was fooey on Ryan's part, and the subsequent substitutions as well, but the poor officiating is fooey on fifa's part.
  14. kwik1980

    kwik1980 New Member

    May 27, 2003
    Norwich, NY
    Re: Ryan ????? [R]

    Without opening up too much of a hornet's nest with the following statement, here it is:

    If this had happened in a "major" sport, the coach responsible wouldn't last 24 hours after the final whistle. Obviously no one expected 4-0, but this was the single worst tactical decision I've seen since Grady Little told Pedro Martinez to pitch the 8th inning of Game 7 of the 2003 ALCS. If Hope Solo is the goalie of the future for the Nats in the first place, why is she not given the oppourtunity on the big stage? Especially after getting the team through the group and one knockout game?

    It's not fair to Solo, and really, Brianna Scurry can't possibly deserve this either.
  15. Dartsoc

    Dartsoc New Member

    May 16, 2004
    Re: Ryan ????? [R]

    I guess the affair between Solo and Ryan must have ended that started in Crete in 2004. It is time for Ryan to resign, Scurry to retire, bring the best keeper (Luckenbill) back ,and move forward
  16. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Fire Ryan

    How about:

    "Greg Ryan: Idiot or Moron?"
  17. Val1

    Val1 Member+

    Mar 12, 2004
    MD's Eastern Shore
    Arsenal FC
    Re: Ryan ????? [R]

    While I agree that the subsituting was really lame, I think soccer coaches in general don't know how to use subs. The Brazilian coach was playing with fire leaving Marta, Christiane and Formiga on the field in a game that was over at half time, and there was no reason to risk any these three women's health. So, poor subbing is not just Ryan's problem.

    As to the switch to go with Bri, I thought it was a fine decision. We are talking about Scurry here, a professional who can easily claim the title best keeper ever. You thinking that Osborne doesn't try to head the ball out if Solo was in because of their chemistry? That was a freak goal. Marta makes a brutal run, Boxx gets tossed and it's game over. Those are the breaks. Look, Ryan assessed the Brazilian team and figured he'd need his best shot stopper out there (and judging from the quality of shots that Bri got peppered with, Ryan was right). And he figured that Scurry, even in this phase of her career, was still the best. Normally I'd be reticent to make a keeper change, but again, this is Scurry we're talking about here, and so it seems very reasonable to me to make this switch. Now, the first I've watched Solo was this World Cup, so maybe someone else can offer an assessment of her shot stopping, but from what I've seen, it's not like she could have stopped either of Marta's two goals. And if her head has been played with, then she was never that strong to begin with.

    I do understand the Go-with-what-brung-ya philosophy, but I am more than content to pick and choose my lineup to maximize personnel mismatches and to combat other teams' strengths.

    The reason we lost was not because of this keeper switch, but because we couldn't handle Marta and Christiane and because our long game stank.
  18. Brownswan

    Brownswan New Member

    Jun 30, 1999
    Port St. Lucie, FL
    Re: Ryan ????? [R]

    I suggest you re-read tarheelfan's post, then re-take that course in Basic Sarcasm you must have slept through in Grade One. No offense, but the post dripped sarcasm like a hive drips honey, honey.

    I guess this hammering has knocked the sense of humor out of most peope here. I doubt beating Norway -- if we can -- will be much consolation.

    The look on Solo's face from the bench was one for the book.
  19. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Ryan ????? [R]

    A couple thoughts:

    1) Ryan had made questionable moves (not using subs in first Round games, or vs. England while up 3-0) before the GK switch.

    2) I don't think the GK switch affected the result. Bri had no chance on the OG. She could have maybe saved the 2nd goal, but that was a touch chance. No chance on the last two.

    3) Brazil is better than we are. They have more speed, better ball skills, and are better passers. They have the best player in the world. Marta. That last goal was SICK!

    4) The problems we had the whole tournament were on display today. We created virtually nothing from the run of play, and had trouble stringing more than two passes together.

    5) The horrid second yellow is what killed the match. But did anyone like our chances down 2-0 at half, even 11 v. 11?

    On Ryan:

    1) Second half subs were stupid beyond belief. Two defenders? Ugh.

    2) He managed to undermine the confidence of virtually the whole team throughout the tournament. His refusal to make timely subs in the earlier games shouts that he doesn't trust his bench. Geez. Kai and Tarp might as well have been Theo Walcott for all the good they did us sitting on the bench. If he wanted to play Scurry vs. Brazil, she should have had another game (Nigeria or England), or at least the end of the England game, got to get her feet wet.

    3) The refusal to use the subs properly had an adverse affect on the starters, particularly Lilly and Wambach. Two defenders down 3-0?

    4) Tactically, a 4-3-3 didn't match up well with Brazil's 3-5-2. Their weak spot is down the flanks with only 3 defenders, but we have no wide play from the midfield, as our three were completely overrun by their five in midfield, and we were reduced to longballs out of the back virtually the whole game. We needed four in midfield, or if there had to be three up front, then we should have gone three in the back.

    5) He decided to play Scurry because of one game vs. Brazil in June. Basing anything on that game was just silly. Brazil hadn't played in what, 2 years?

    Yes, Ryan made some mistakes. But the harsh reality is that the USA women are no longer the best team in the world. Or the most exciting. Can we get it back? Yes. But we need a different approach than the Heinrich's-Ryan route one game.

    Good luck to the players in the 3rd place game, I thought they gave everything they had.
  20. sitruc

    sitruc Member+

    Jul 25, 2006
    Re: Ryan ????? [R]

    Give Ryan a break. His goal for the team was only to reach the semis.:rolleyes:

    I wish joking made me feel better about the team's future.
  21. defensewins

    defensewins Member

    Nov 15, 1999
    Re: Ryan ????? [R]

    Ryan’s toast after this unacceptable debacle. Swiss Miss ref should be toast too. The nail in the coffin, the ref decides the game. That should never happen. Ryan has no coaching chops for this level and must be immediately removed. His classless unwillingness to take any blame for his gaffes in this tournament leaves an even worse taste in my mouth
  22. Mr Martin

    Mr Martin Member+

    Jun 12, 2002
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Ryan ????? [R]

    Ryan has done a poor coaching job from the start of this tournament. The criticism has been going on for weeks. It isn't just the strange goalkeeper decision 24 hours prior to the semi-final. It is one poor decision after another:

    * The squad as a whole was too slow. Except for O'Reilly and Chalupney, there just wasn't much speed in the starting team, and apparently very little on the bench other than Ellerston and Kai, and those two were hardly used. Against the faster opponents like North Korea and Brazil, the US was always chasing, while unable to create any separation when they did have the ball. Germany would have given the US the same problems.

    * The long-ball style has been discussed constantly for weeks. It is 1-dimentional. The midfield was usually by-passed, which took a fine player like Chalupney out of much of the play, and relegated a promising young midfielder like Lloyd to the bench after the first couple of games. Skill midfielders like Wagner and Tarpley became wasted roster spots. Too much depended on getting the ball to Wombach, who is a really top-quality player but can't do it alone, especially with a toe injury.

    * The subbing pattern was mystifying all tournament. Why bring along 21 players and leave so many on the bench? With so many games in such a short period of time, giving quality bench players some game time so that they remain match ready, and giving key starting players some rest so that they are not worn out, is basic coaching 101. The front three of Wombach, Lilly, and O'Reilly were worn down. Wombach was nursing a toe injury and would have benfited from some breaks once the US had secured comfortable leads in 2 of the games. The backs were worn down. Talented reserves like Tarpley, Wagner, Kai, and Ellerston were barely used or not used at all, even in the 3-0 win over England! Then, in today's semi-final, Ryan brings in DEFENSIVE subs in the 2nd half when trailing 0-2 and 0-3. Mindboggling.

    * The whole Scurry/Solo keeper switch was insane. Solo has been the #1 all year. She had 300 shutout minutes at the Cup. Her ability to play the ball with her feet was useful. The team was finally developing some confidence after the 3-0 win over England. Why destroy all that with a keeper switch 24 hours before the semi-final. Nowhere in the world do coaches make such decisions (or survive afterwards). And to not have warned Solo weeks ago that this was possible is inexcusable. Supposedly Ryan and Scurry had discussed the idea, but not with Solo. Ryan over-thought this whole thing, and basically had the kind of coaching panic/meldown that Steve Sampson had with the men's team in 1998. Farcical.

    The US needs a coaching change after the Sunday 3d Place match. Players with touch, skill, and speed need to be brought in. The U14 kick-ball/hustle style needs to be banished. Otherwise, the US will fall farther behind Germany and Brazil, and North Korea will pass us as well.
  23. BlitzSpiele

    BlitzSpiele Member

    Sep 7, 2007
    Re: Ryan ????? [R]

    Are you talking about Kristen Luckenbill? She has no mobility whatsoever. Iceland tagged her with two goals 35 yards out when they played in Rochester in 2003. Oh, I see a reference to Dartmouth. Nevermind. Carry on.
  24. Mississippi Flash

    May 19, 2002
    Coaching Decisions in Tournament

    There has been lots of discussion of Ryan's decision to switch keepers mid tournament, but something else also disturbed me. Throughout the tournament the coach played three in the midfield regardless of what the other team played. Other teams used 4 or 5 midfielders against us and blew through the midfield at speed which put great pressure on the back four. I think two forwards with Christine Lilly pulled back to left mid would have been more effective. This was apparent to me in the first game when NK has us back on our heels.
  25. UFGator98

    UFGator98 Member

    Aug 13, 2001
    Re: Ryan ????? [R]

    Ryan should do the honorable thing and resign. He is out of his league being head coach of this team. Everything about this game from a US standpoint was pathetic. Replacing Solo, the absolutely worst call I've ever seen to send Boxx off, the ridiculous subs, the lethargic manner in which the US played. This was, without a doubt in my mind, the worst game the US women have ever played, since I've been following the team.

    A friend of mine called me after the game and said Greg Ryan is George W. Bush. And seeing his post match interview, it's such an accurate comparison. I said it from game 1, the look on Ryan's face against NK concerned me. That is not he face of a man I want to see leading this team. I have nothing more to say. Heinrichs set back US women's soccer, but if Ryan is continued to lead, he will completely destroy everything the 91ers built. Be a man and step down.

    Congrats to Brazil, they were phenomenal today, they took advantage of their speed and skill and the even without the own goal and the playing with 10, they would've and deserved to win and advance to the finals. They were the better team despite the US blunders. Scurry was awful, but wasn't the only one who sucked out there and it all started with Greg Ryan and his crap.

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