...the rumor of my demise has been greatly exaggerated. Can we now stop with all the Big Soccer nonsense that the "Classic Number 10" is going extinct? If it's good enough for the Dutch (Sneijder, van Der Vaart), the Brazillians (Kaka) and the Argentines (take your pick) what precisely has given us the impression we have a better idea of how this game is supposed to be played than they do? If the US National Team ever gets sold, Wesley Sneijder is going to see a lot of money because after today he clearly owns this team. This isn't really about Freddy Adu (as there are plenty of other American players who have suffered because of it), it's about the overarching dogma in this country that either a player needs to be a forward, a winger, or a d-mid or else he has no future. I can guarantee you these guys didn't become as good at what they do as they are by having all of their coaches try and break them of it. And for anyone who wants to argue "we're not as good as they are so we can't afford such a player", does it strike you that maybe one of the reasons why we aren't as good is _because_ we have no use for such a player?
Hmmm... What's better pretending like we have a #10 worthy of the characterization, or playing with the players we have?
And my point exactly. How precisely do we get one if every potential one gets told "teams don't use that position anymore" and gets shuttled off to winger ("work on your defense son") or d-mid ("you _really_ need to work on your defense son"). There's more to this game than pressuring opponents into turnovers. At least elsewhere there is. Which do we have more of right now? Number 10s or forwards who aren't more or less worthless?
It seems like your criticism is more directed towards player development, and in that respect, I think it is completely valid. I am anxious to see how Gil is developed. If he is moved into a more defensive position, my frustrations will match yours.
This has been the case since Bucket Bob was hired to play Bobball. Bob does not like center mids that can create. They do not fit his system. Our next manager may play a system that values passing and creating chances. Bob prefers deep lying center mids.
It takes an awful lot for me to post here (I read all the time) but I have to tell you how right you are. We are taking a simple game and scheming it to death. We have players that can play in the middle and I wish more people could understand it. Playing your most creative midfield players wide is a good gimmick but there’s a reason our best player(s) disappear in games…they aren’t in a position to impact the game. On another note, if our central mids were so good today, why did Sneijder have so much time on the ball in the middle of the field? Wasn’t somebody responsible for closing him down?
I'm with you. I've had a similar complaint in that we have a long history of taking our skilled players who grew up scoring goals and moving them further and further away from the goal. The US has a foolish love affair with the assist man at the expense of goals. I can see where the same thing happens in midfield, but I'm less satisfied with our options for the #10. If we had anyone, even in MLS, that was stepping up as a #10 in midfield and showing that they could get the job done, I'd more inclined to worry over it. I just don't see the options.
Yes, but it is my opinion that "player development" includes a lot more than just training teenagers. It includes a much greater range of things like offensive philosophy, player selection and pace of play, and these are things that extend across our domestic league and into the realm of the current senior National Team. If the changes aren't made at the top, changes at the bottom aren't going to do any good (and aren't going to happen). In my opinion, if we're ever going to get any better than this (where we've leveled off since about 2002) we need to be willing to temporarily get a little worse. Playing relegation battler football ain't going to win us a world cup any more than it wins Hull the Premiership. Hull doesn't have a lot of options to improve their lot in life, we do.
Good point. In today's game against Holland, US defenders kicking long balls under little or no pressure frustrated me. Then towards the end of the first half, the US tried to play the ball out of the back, with a series of decent passes before a giveaway from Bocanegra allowed Holland to counter. I had two thoughts: 1) "OK. That explains why the US kicks it long so often." 2) "If the US does not try and allow itself to fail, it will never improve."
I tend to be in the camp that does not believe in the necessity of a #10. Yes, the dutch still have a couple and Brazil and Argentina. But they are rare and becomming more rare so I'd rather not pin my hopes on the US having a good one any time soon. However, I do have a big problem with the US habit of never using anyone to distribute from the center. The guy in the middle has more options and should be able to have a good view and distribute. Yet, the US continually forces play down the wing, even when it gets over-crowded and the space disappears and nothing is on. You very very rarely see the outside US players look for a midfielder closer to the cetner to get it to when it gets crowded. It is either keep driving down the wing or play it back to the defense to swing it around.
I think a real manager would improve our quality of play and ability to create chances in the final third. After the game, bob said we needed to be better in the final third. How ironic..... How often has bob's teams EVER been good in the final third? When has bob's teams consistently create chances? We had trouble doing that against the likes of average CONCACAF competition at times.
And who gets the chance? The only guys in MLS who actually get to play that position are aged foreigners like Blanco. Everyone else gets roasted alive if they even dare to play 10 minutes like Sneijder played today. Watching Sneijder casually glance over at Michael Bradley with the ball a mere five feet away and making no effort to pressure him would have gotten him flayed alive on any MLS board, but Sneijder knows his job is to have the positioning and the energy to be able to spring an attack once his side wins the ball. He'll cut off passing lanes, but he's not going to run all over the field like a mad man chasing the ball like Frankie Hejduk on a bad batch of crank. We have to understand that the next step in our development is very hard and is not just going to come automatically like people keep believing. We have to make some critical adjustments, and I don't think we're making them or at least making enough of them.
I can't be certain, but I believe that when people say the #10 is dead, what they really mean is that the traditional diamond midfield (with only one defensive minded central midfielder) is dead. But the type of player to which you're referring is still used often as a withdrawn striker/attacking mid in a 4-4-2/4-5-1 hybrid, as an attacking midfielder in a skinny diammond with additional defensive cover in the midfield, or as an attacking midfielder in a 3-5-2. That first option has been used on occasion by the USMNT this cycle - think Dempsey during the Gold Cup, Donovan against Argentina, and Adu against Spain (all three have also played as more traditional strikers at times under Bradley).
The "10" these days is a forward who can pass well. We'll have one of those this summer because we are probably going to see Landon and/or Clint Dempsey up top a lot.
Spain does too. Fabregas is one and Xavi is certainly is comfortable doing it if for some reason the Xavi+Iniesta partnership needed to be broken up. Most teams competing to win something have somebody pushed up centrally to orchestrate an attack. Why that player is becoming more rare is because most teams in the big league spend most of their time holding for dear life, and any time they do come across a player like this they either can't use him or lose him to a bigger team if they do. But you sure as hell don't see many teams in position to win something take that attitude, and my goal for us is to be one of those teams. We've got the raw resources to do it.
Good points. I think the attacking mid/second striker positions have become blurred to some extent. As you noted, we've sometimes used that sort of player in this cycle (Donovan, Dempsey and Adu). At other times we've moved away from it, notably when Davies emerged. It seems to me Bradley has kept a fairly open mind about what he is looking for from his two forwards and has been willing to make adjustments based on form.
The idea of committing to attacking soccer is more interesting to me than worrying about the definition of a 10. Holland does not play its style solely because of Sneijder. Spain is not Spain only because of Xavi. Brazil can direct its attack from almost any area of the field, as gifted a focal point Kaka can be. Attacking soccer is a much more involved commitment than one player and as voros says a more expensive investment. To commit to attacking soccer, people in the US game must look for an put a higher priority on different player attributes than they do today and select and cultivate players accordingly.
I've said a few times and that's what I meant for sure. There aren't many situations in which one guy disrupts and fetches and carries for someone who just performs an offensive duty, and there are very few examples of teams who have most of the flow of their offense run through a central figure who has the luxury of just spraying passes and playing QB. This is rare at high levels. Everything else voros says, I agree with though. Our 4-4-2 is conservative and out of step as it is. It will surprise nobody, unlock nobody, and it provides no spacial questions for opponents to answer. We're dependent largely on set pieces. And all this before the realization we don't have two (or arguably any) full-on central forwards worth a damn. As said before, I def think we should be exploring a false 9 (jozy) with clint and landon wide, or a 4-2-3-1 -- the South American "shutter" variety, less likely until we have someone who can play a Kaka role; the European withdrawn striker variety more likely at the moment. And our complex that we aren't good enough, and that we have to win on a youth level rather than develop players, does hamper that. We look at any lone guy playing centrally as someone who has to stay there and have balls launched to him. (see: any thread about lone strikers around here) So, sure, the false 9 and playing the ball on the carpet and all this has worked in recent years for Man U, Arsenal, Roma, and Barca because in part they're "better" than we are, but we could play like this and our team is best suited to do so besides. Clark and Edu behind Bradley, Jozy "up top" (in name at least...think van persie or bendtner at arsenal, or eto'o at barca or ronaldo or rooney at man u the past few years...not just some lummox to hang around the box and try to clear space) and Landon and Clint on the outside feels like our best formation. And actually play soccer too, pass and move, triangles, play it on the ground-- that group could do it. Maybe it's 'technically' a 4-5-1 or 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1. Call it what you will but it's what we should do imo. Yet we restrict ourselves to nothing but a big/little 4-4-2.
I've noticed that when Bob talks about "making life difficult for the other team" his steely blue eyes get steelier and bluer. On the other hand they become dull and lifeless when the converstation turns to playing an attacking style. Joking aside, I agree with your post but I think we're not going to see anything like such a commitment in the remaining months of this cycle. My hopes lie with the next coach. I think we have the players to play a more attractive style. But given our history as a soccer-playing country, it will require a deep philosophical commitment.
This is a problem of the selection, as much as the game strategy. Hypothetically, Bob could have played Holden in the middle with Beasley and Donovan on the flanks. Why Findley was on the pitch today is anyone's guess (OK, he has speed). That's because ever since Arena, the mantra has become "one touch" football and #10's don't play "one touch football" - they circle and spin and disorient their markers. In the US, holding the ball is considered a taboo. And that means, people can't shield the ball and dribble away from trouble. Instead, they back pass. They always have been. That's how #10 was created - a withdrawn forward. BTW, Xavi and Cesc are really "8's", not "10's". But Ribery can be a "10". Ozil is a "10". As are Snejder and v.d. Vaart. As is Kaka. There are a few of them still around.
I'd add that fella named Rosicky who destroyed us in the last WC. I wonder if he'll play against us in the friendly this May.