Well, if the FO is willing to help us out a little bit...... What I'm going to say may just sound a bit heretical, but listen (well, read) before you jump. I won't necessarily mind a few sound effects being played if they can be coordinated to help bring the casuals into our cheers. I wouldn't mind them playing the sound effects that match our clap chant if they'd put the words on the jumbotron and time it with us. It ain't that hard. I wouldn't mind doing just the first verse of "If you're here for the Wizards clap your hands" in cahoots with the organ music if (wait for it....) they'd put the words on the jumbotron and time it with us. Again, it ain't that hard. Now, I realize that there are sponsors that have bought time, but I doubt that ALL of the time is sold. I think we could find three five-minute blocks (pre-game and each half) for a little help.
I won't attack you for this, in fact I would agree with you, if the sound effects were in tune with our chants it wouldn't be terrible, especially if we could get the words up on the screen so people could see them. Course is this something that is likely to happen? Cause I really don't think so.
I think, however, that it might be a strong bargaining chip with Curt. Competing sound effects cheapen the product on the field (not that it hasn't already been cheapened enough) but also turn people off from hearing our positive, g-rated chants. We get frustrated with the FO and the casuals, and our frustration leads to f-bombs and other, less g-rated, chants. If we're not as frustrated and the casuals are more in tune with the game, everybody's happy.
I think people will join your group because of the fun atmosphere it provides, more than anything else, and the bigger the group the better because it adds so much to the game. The issue with most people, I believe, is not the language so much as the negativity. I tried to observe the people sitting near your group last night, and in general they were amused and entertained by (and even tended to join in) most of the chants that are witty and clever. (The favorite was probably "my hero has a first name . . ." And "bring out your dead" is always a crowd-pleaser.) Less than favorable reactions came with the chants deriding the other team's players, or the referee. The chants directed at the opponent may have seemed more offensive because they were directed at a team of amatuer players than they would in a regular MLS game. I understand chants like "you're a bastard" having a long and revered tradition, but it's not a tradition for folks in the middle U.S. who may be hearing it for the first time. It may come to be a tradition, but understand in the meantime that people may not be enthusiastic about it. In the end, though, I don't think very many people are truly offended by chants like that. A bigger issue is the negative comments or silence directed toward the Wizards when things do not go well. At Park Univ. a small contingent of foreign-born students usually show up (with a drum and sometimes other instruments) to cheer their team. When something bad happens (like a goal against), they may break into a chant something like "It's okaaaaay.. It's ok." It sends an immediate positive and optimistic message, which seems to be the best thing to do when things go wrong. I'm not saying our players should never hear negative comments. I just don't think they should be coming from the supporters section immediately after something bad happens.
But speaking of bargaining chips, I mentioned this to Curt as well. What is in it for us? I told him I didn't mean to come across as stand-offish, but nicely asking us to tone it down won't cut it (at least I don't think). He mentioned things like "fans won't come back to games", but even if we do want people to come to games that shouldn't be our #1 priority, it should be his. His solution to that though, could obviously be to kick people out. What I don't want to see in this whole thing is that we change what we do simply because a FO that doesn't do a whole lot to help out cause asks us to. Sure they put us on the PA and they provide us with a section. But they also play music over our chants, steal a lot of good ideas that come from the group and don't do a whole lot to help us when security starts to act just as bad as some of us. This has to be a two way street, because when our section is doing well we provide something to the team that they can't get from any other group of fans.
If the negativity is, in fact, the issue, then color me surprised. I've been to matches across MLS and sat in or near other supporters groups (River Ratz, Inferno, Section 8, La Norte). Honestly, the Cauldron is pretty middle-of-the-road compared to what I've seen elsewhere. The games I saw may have been aberrations, but if negativity if what's driving people away, it's a league-wide thing.
Its not so much the negative (off color) chants so much as it is the negative comments towards the wizards whipping boys that are my biggest concerns about the image of the cauldron towards recruitment. The frustrated energy would be better directed somewhere else.
I'm working on changing the words to Battle Hymn of the Republic to actually include the verses and not just the chorus that we do already.
I don't think anyone involved in the rewrite gave a cr@p about it being the BC fight song. It was basically a bunch of Dropkick Murphys fans who were looking for a song to work with and that one, for obvious reasons, lends itself to being used in this way. Their version is far from your typical trombone and tuba fight song. I'm open for other options, I was really just wanting to use something more edgy. For instance when you and a few others broke into "Los Angeles is Burning" at one game I thought it was great even if we didn't change the words. I also liked it when Jace brought in the Main Street Saints' "KC Belongs to Me" even though it never really caught on with the group. OK, I need more sleep or caffeine - or both, but I'll see if we can come up with a different song. Funny part is, I asked if anyone thought people would object and it was brought up that most people would probably not even know where it came from. Damn our group and their broad knowledge of school fight songs.
You have a suggestion? The Murphy's version is very upbeat and doen't really sound like a fight song...
I mentioned in another thread that a few of us (including George S., Jason, Alan and others) ran into Curt last night at Charlie Hooper's. We talked to him for a bit about language, sound effects, ownership and general player stuff. Nothing earth shattering. I don't see anything happening over the sound effects despite my rather pointed comments about it. That may change at a new facility. But not while we are at Arrowhead. He said he enjoyed the Cauldron's second half "performance" at Park. But he did remind us about our profanity on goalkicks and even complained about the use of the word "Jackass" when an opposition player misses. This is no longer about F-Bombs, which kinda surprised me. His mantra is about cultivating new fans, which I understand. I just wonder with the organ playing, the sound effects and restrictions on even mild language if that is gonna drive more people away than it attracts.
Perhaps the current fans have been conditioned (for lack of a better word) by the organization's idea of what the game atmosphere should be to think that what the Cauldron does is just the most evil thing in world. I know I'm sticking my neck where it probably shouldn't be right now, but its really frustrating to know that there is little give and take in this situation. Many comments have been made about sound effect which seemingly go ignored, but the Cauldron is told what they can do, a list that seemingly grows smaller every day.
Jackass? Seriously. And the goal kick "you're ******** ha" is nearly unintelligable. Sounds like Curt would love nothing more than us to go away. And just curious if he has ever been to a Chief's game.....
Tell Curt he has a small Johnson. And get more fans in that concrete jungle, and he won't hear the damn Cauldron. Sheesh.
Curt is a communicative individual. That is nice. In that spirit, I see nothing wrong with telling CJ what he can do with his ideas on banning launguage offensive to the minority. I've offered him the sugestion that he should tell the "20-40 callers" after every game that this isn't an event completely geared towards 7-year olds and that some launguage is to be expected at a professional event. We do our best to curb it, but what can be done is limited. CJ could also explain the ratings system that TV uses. Professional sporting events are not "G" rated cartoons. There is mild launguage and mild viloence. So, be parents and explain how they should relate to such behavior. Then KCW could offer a "family section" at the corner directly across the field from 114. The Couldron should continue as is. After watching the @Portland/Minny USL1 game this morning, I'd say this. The Timbers' group was in fine voice all game. Clearly audible were many of the same things the Cauldron does. "You're an a-hole" on goal kicks, ref chants, "Who we are", and other things with mild cursing. Maybe CJ could call the POR GM to see what his thoughts are. One difference was that they had a ringleader (Timber Jim) and were audible for 90 minutes. Another nice thing was at PGE, they have a giant tree to be scaled, ala the Ggreat Outdoor Games (with lumberjack equipment) by Timber Jim. Not to digress but this whole thing emphasises the difference between a whole team/marketing, color/logo/name concept like say, Portland or Chicago and the randomly thrown together concept like many others. Is there any wonder why CHI has the most active and largest fan groups in MLS? There shouldn't be. Every mention of the Timbers' group on the broadcast was that, "The Timbers supporters' group is far and away the best in the USL." For the record the teams tied 3-3.
Wow Jackass is the problem now huh....nice, real nice. If it is not one thing it's another an another an another. This list so called complaints seems to never stop. Like Nate said the "ok to do list" is becoming shorter and shorter. Mr. Johnson or who ever reads the boards maybe you should find something better to do with your time. Marketing and taking care of the fans that have not abandonded the team for one. Not being worried about little things that are apart of every sport. Dave I watched the A-league game last night as well. Not a bad game, like you said the Timbers Army represented well. Your ideas are to easy, and that would require time and effort and that is just asking to much from a HSG team. Maybe these things are being done to weed out the bad fans. Maybe Lamar is going to keep the team after the stadium is built for him. So then he can fully cater to the kids and turn it into a indoor game atmosphere. Oh joy! Then when the playoffs come and it is to cold for any of those kids to show up there will be alot of empty seats.
I don't think this is the most likely scenario, but it wouldn't shock me. And frankly, that would be the 2nd worst case scenario. It has got to the point that I'd rather them move and get expansion in a few years than have Clark and Lamar keep the team.
I too agree with what a lot of you are saying. It does feel like at times that we're being backed into a corner with what we can and can not say. My question would then be, what is your solution? Where do we stop, where do we decide that we're willing to accept the consequences of actions that Curt/the FO don't approve of? I'm all for making a point and taking a stand, but we have to realize that there are consequences that follow those actions. Curt has mentioned kicking people out, not advertising the section and not having the mike. I guess in an extreme case they could do away with the section (not make it GA is about the only way to do that), but then we'd just relocate so that wouldn't make sense. But does he have a leg to stand on when it comes to threatening to take those things away? At some point we have to draw a line and demend that they meet in the middle. This is definitely something to discuss Wednesday.
I was there at Hoopers when Curt came over to talk with us. He talked to us for between 1 and 2 hours. Like Mark said, he mentioned the language and what the fans (however many of them) complained about. This has already been discussed a bunch in the thread though... The Sound Effects were brought up by Mark who was very pointed in his comments about how bad they were. CJ said that the sound effects are there 'cause it's done by the same peeps that do the chiefs games. Says he's asked them to tone it down but apparantly doesn't have much say there. He did say that with our own stadium that the sound effects would go away. So they are here to stay for sure. Also he told us the Thunder FO turned down the KC request to move the next USOC game to Tuesday because the Thunder have a game on Saturday and want to have the 3 days off... So game stays on wednesday. As for the sale he also mentioned that it was going well... take that for what it's worth... oh yeah, we can have streamers at Arrowhead and can throw them on the field just like the Menace fans did... now I wonder if anyone will tell security that it is ok...
The only threat that he has that could possibly truly hurt the Cauldron is kicking people out, but I don't really think thats a good option for him either for many reasons. Now, I'm not saying that people start chanting things at the next game like "Zach Thornton is a fat motherf#$*ing @$$hole!" The case needs to be made clear to him that you are paying customers just like all of the people who complain that the Cauldron somehow ruins their experience of the game. Nobody pays money for a product and then is told how to enjoy it. You are the victim here, not anyone else. And at the very least, I don't think people will have to deal with this treatment much longer.
Exactly. Which is why I hear the guy out, because there's no good reason to burn any bridges, and we only have a handful of games left in the current situation. We don't really need to change who we are or what we do, just stay a bit civil and don't get kicked out of the game. Any effort we put forth to gain ground with the FO will only need to be duplicated with a new FO. Any thing they try to "take" from us will not matter, for the same reasons.
Maybe we could complain that the people that don't stand and cheer ruin the our experience of the game... .... no, I don't think that woudl work either... even if it is true...
This is indeed a very lame excuse. It sounds like he's blowing you off or his boss demands the presence of sound effects.