I've recieved and email from Curt Johnson about language in the Cauldron. He's asked if we could "tone it down" a bit. There have been many complaints recently (he did not say who from specifically, but I think I can safely assume other fans and fan assistance) regarding the language coming out of the section. While I understand both sides of this situation (obviously if you've ever heard my reaction to a Fransico Gomez "bomb" into row ZZ), we probably should tone down a bit. I'm not sure if the complaints are about songs the whole section is doing ("Wings of a Sparrow" and "Can You Hear ______ Sing") or if they are about individuals who blurt something out. But either way, I would assume both cause complaints. Curt mentioned that when these complaints come in it is hard for him to help us. Some of you might have laughed at that sentence asking yourself what him/the FO do for us, but we do want to keep a good relationship. Things like having the section advertised over the scoreboard and PA (something Curt specifically mentioned) are great for us, and other things like that would really help. I know before when this became an issue, people just started getting kicked out. It's been pretty tame this season, and I feel our support in the section has been good. Let's keep it that way. I will say though that in a few months time we'll have new ownership. Who knows who they will choose to run their front office, and what kind of relationship we'll have with them. But if anyone with the current FO is involved (I have no clue how these things work), it would be best to have a good relationship with them. It could only help the section in the long run. I know Sam has hinted that the section will be "taken care of" if this local ownership thing happens, but only he can give insight into that side of this topic. Sam, care to give any info about this, or is that not allowed either? Thoughts?
[dude in "Half Baked" who's seen what Bob Saget will do for crack]I seen it![/dude in "Half Baked" who's seen what Bob Saget will do for crack]
I'm sure when we dropped the f-bomb in Can you hear the Chivas sing may have had a part in it........
Tone down what, mother-********er? All movie quotes aside, I had wondered when this would be brought up. I'm not going to launch into the same longwinded spiel as I did over on the Chicago boards, but it's because our use of profanity is different. 1. It's more creative. Chanting "You Suck ......." at goal kicks as opposed to the interjection in "Can You Hear" and "Wings of a Sparrow" seem more an adult use of profanity. 2. We're less loud. (No trying to defend it, we are.) I can understand why the current front office is asking us to tone it down. I would, however, appreciate a few concrete examples. The complainants don't necessarily have to be named (despite the principles of American jurisprudence stating otherwise) but it would be nice to know exactly which chants they are objecting to.
On a positive note........... At least someone is hearing us and paying attention to what we're doing/saying.
Just taking a shot as others have - I'm pretty sure we got a reaction from security on the "Can you hear.." chant. I'm also thinking that the verbal beat down that Jose took after his "assist" on the goal might have as much or more to do with it. I would hazard a guess that most people aren't as offended by silly cursing in a chant as they are by what they perceive as violent tirades. In fact at the last game I saw a mom and her young daughter both giggling at a lot of our cursing chants. We've also been pretty loud of late and can be heard easily over the deafening silence in the rest of the stadium. Just my 2 cents.
Personally, if you're swearing in reaction to something that's just the way you express yourself socially and you may try to work on that individually; afterall you'll be the sole person responsible for your actions and have to own up to any consequences that may result. Word choice happens everyday in every setting/environment you go through (your VP's office is different language than the Men's restroom) but I can tell you and Curt that swearing at games happens in more places than just the Cauldron. What I don't get is the intentional group stuff you guys do. On the goal kicks were you're barking in unison "You're Shite Ha", or "You suck A$$hole" really isn't doing anything for the team, the atmosphere, or anything really for that matter other than swearing in unision. Most of you then turn sheepishly around like you just tried you first swear word at the dinner table and aren't sure of what reaction to expect. "Wings of a Sparrow" could easliy be "toned" down and really is just blatant for effect. We're not England, Germany, Argentina, etc... we're Midwest biblebelt. We're not a packed house yet where adults are the one's packing the stadium like the Chiefs and the social bar standard gets to move due to that fact. Backing off on a couple "group" efforts doesn't take away the spirit of what the Cauldron is, does, or how it functions. It doesn't make it a day care either. If anything, it possibly enables it to grow. There will always be language sounding off just based on the common demographic there but barking it in unison where it's p!ssing people of 2 and 3 sections over is not what you or the club are trying to achieve. Now for Curt, maybe he could shell out an idea of what he could tolerate as an acceptable level of fan experience from a language perspective that reasonably accomodates the Adult fan vs the Soccer Mom family. A freaking G rating ain't gonna cut it. I would say like an R rating or PG13 as a standard to ideally maintain. He sells tickets to both, provides alcohol to one side, promotes that side to be active together but then looks down his nose in judgement of the very environment he wants to create. It's a fine line he has to walk and he needs to provide specifics and not just be bland about alleged "complaints". Curt also provided a somewhat out of the way section for the Cauldron so as not to impose on the other sections but yet people keep creeping toward it and then now are suddenly becoming offended? Maybe something should be said to those as well. It's a huge stadium and the FO could also be a little more proactive in just stating that when they get a complaint, they understand but that also we (the club) have to try and support our supporters club too. We do tolerate a bit more in and around that section than everywhere else because of the passion we're trying to develop and the nature of that fan, and their experience. "I'd be happy help you find some other seats if sitting right next to them makes you feel least bit uncomfortable at all". Both sides CJ... I just hope that when/if a new stadium is built that the seating is handled or marketed maybe as the Sec 105 - Supporters "Stands", Sec 125 - The Family Fun Zone, Sec 122- Road Team Row, Sec 101- Bench Backers, Sec 126 -Club Team Corner etc... with the Supporter Stands and the Family Fun Zone or whatever, being as far apart as possilble.
Gotta share a story about how "innocent" the kids at the games are.... At the Santos/CLB exhibition game, my buddies and I were rooting for CLB. Unfortunately, we were surrounded by santos fans. Well, this little kid (maybe 5) turns around, looks at us, grins, makes a fist with his left hand, and slowly pulls up his middle finger with his right hand to flip us the bird! Innocence at its best!
These are all my feelings, so take them with a grain of salt ... If Wizards supports (I'm extending this beyond the Cauldron) make the majority of the chants and songs A) something catchy that the kids will pick up on and B) something that the parents don't mind the kids singing in the minivan on the way home, it goes a long way towards building atmosphere, community, and repeat customers. Heck, if supporters can make it something simple parents or older siblings can teach the little ones, or make the reverse true - something the little ones can teach their parents and older siblings - it moves that much further to making Wizards games a true experience - and an experience that people will want to come back to. Part of my whole basis for this is the work that Roxanne does in children's ministry in our church. At vacation bible school and Sunday School the kids learn basic songs with movements and gestures. When those songs are used in our contemporary worship service, you'll see entire families singing and doing the gestures. I feel it is, in some ways, a simple question - do we want to emulate the junk that DC spews out because we think setting the bar that low is what a supporter's group is supposed to do, or do we take steps to create an inclusive environment and a sense of event? I feel supporters can be funny, pointed, and supportive without being obscene. And I believe, overall, that will make us more effective.
I'll agree with that for the most part. One of my long time favorite songs, Gansler's Army has no cursing at all (though there is some debate as to whether or not Kansas City is, in fact, the greatest softball team). And our old Meola song made an insinuation of a "bad word" which actually made it funnier IMHO. What I don't want to happen is a ZardMeister situation where we foster the "it's all for the kiddies" mentality. I agree that we should not be dropping f-bombs, but I don't see an issue with a nice round of Wings of a Sparrow once a game either. It's not all about what you do or do not want your kids repeating. I don't know that you want your kid riding home screaming "BUDWEISER, get your Budweiser" either, but you're not stoppin' the beer man.
While I think at times there is a lot of cursing in the Cauldron, I agree a lot with Stu, while we have plenty of chants that are good and kid appropriate, I think there is nothing wrong with a chant like wings of a sparrow or other ones. It's not us "lowering" ourselves it's us enjoying the game in a way that we want. Unfortunately some people don't like our "fun." Oh well.
I honestly feel it is somewhere in between. I don't want us to turn into a Sunday School class but it does us no good to turn people away with obscenities. As Andy said, turn off the sound effects and we'll try a little harder to be creative with our words Will they ask us to sit down next?
well in my opinion you guys could "tone it down" a bit. i mean it seems like every chant you throw has atleast one swear in it. i haven't enjoyed getting used to it but the new people that come in to watch a soccer game(probably not even knowing the teams) are like "ohhhhh! did they just cuss?" yes they did. i really don't like it either. i mean i sing with the chants, with no cuss words and everybody hears me loud and clear. loud drums + loud chants - cuss words = good.
I'm having flashbacks to Old Trafford where you aren't allowed to stand and asside from the visiting fans, the atmosphere is dead.
Ugghh. I hate that we even need to think this way. I don't like having to cater to a bunch of nine-year-olds who don't watch the game anyway. It's not like the f-word is being used at will. I can't help but think that if the Wizards get a SSS and we can cut out this soccer-mom, cotton candy, sound effects laden, "Z-Prizes on the Scoreboard" bullcrap. I'm one to not curse when kids around, I even get mad at myself when I accidently do, but I have never listened to the Cauldron and thought" "Whoa...hold on a second, theeeeeey really need to tone it down..." It all started to go down hill when that employer in a drugstore probably somewhere in Iowa put up the first "Suggestion Box"... Man I would like to find that guy and kick him in the junk. Now, instead of explaining to your kids what these words are and why they shouldn't use them (As my parents did since we were Chiefs season ticket holders and heard a lot of colorful words at a young age), parents just complain or "suggest" to the team that they ask the "True Fan" section to tone it down because it is too hard to earmuff their kids when they are hyped-up on Dippin' Dots.
I agree, I don't like catering to them either, I am just making the point that we have plenty of chants that are kid friendly, IE don't have cussing. I mean I see a few people outside the Cauldron pick up on the Wizards chant we do with the raising of the arms. I personally try to cuss as little as possible just because that's my own personal opinion, if a chant has cussing in it I just don't say the cuss word. The Wizards cater to these younger kids though so we aren't just gonna be able to ditch them very easily.
Think again, it actually gets worse. FCD is adding a mascot when we move the new stadium. We've been moved from a prominent position in midfield to a section behind the goal. If anything teams moving to SSS's, particularly those in the 'burbs, will cater even MORE to mini-van set.
And while you probably know more then I do about who the new owners might be, I'm certain that no one knows how they will handle complaints from their target demo of their brand new business venture. I'm guessing, however, that they will do whatever they can to ensure an protect their $15-20 million investment.
Oh, I'm sure you're right. But we all get the feeling here that things will be much better for stadium atmosphere (and in turn, better for the Cauldron) under new ownership.
Let's don't polarize this subject down to "catering to the kids" "becoming a day care" etc... There are plenty of adults who don't care for the swearing much less a group effort at it. Personally I don't care however many of the people I traditionally sit around would. It sounds like all Curt is merely asking is to take it down a notch or to keep it in check as he has to respond to complaints. It's part of his job. He's not catering to kids and neither are you, it's responding to the social norm of the general public at present. Is he really asking that much of you? And the F-bomb isn't the only curse word I'm sure people have issue with. Just remember that your level of acceptable language for a supporters group is probably a little more on the extreme side than the general public; so what seems on the level for you might be a little unsettling for the remaining demographic. Chances are if you weren't all in one group and were sitting in random seats you're language would be a bit more reserved, more frequently. Again I'll just refer to my previous post where I believe marketing and ticketing need to identify different fan types and create reasonable space for the extreme ends. They're both fine by themselves, but conflicts will invariably arise when it's mashed together.