Some initial suggestions, any thoughts very welcome: Goalkeepers Jose Luis Chilavert (Paraguay) Fabien Barthez (France) Edwin van der Sar (Netherlands) Gianluca Pagliuca (Italy) Full-backs Lilian Thuram (France) Roberto Carlos (Brazil) Bixente Lizarazu (France) Robert Jarni (Croatia) Cafu (Brazil) Centre-backs Sol Campbell (England) Frank de Boer (Netherlands) Marcel Desailly (France) Carlos Gamarra (Paraguay) Lauren Blanc (France) Roberto Ayala (Argentina) Central Midfielders Edgar Davids (Netherlands) Juan Veron (Argentina) Didier Deschamps (France) Emmanuel Petit (France) Dunga (Brazil) Cesar Sampaio (Brazil) Fernando Hierro (Spain) Paul Ince (England) Aljosa Asanovic (Croatia) Attacking Midfielders Rivaldo (Brazil) Zinedine Zidane (France) Ronald de Boer (Netherlands) Jay-Jay Okocha (Nigeria) Wingers Thierry Henry (France) Brian Laudrup (Denmark) Marc Overmars (Netherlands) Forwards Ariel Ortega (Argentina) Dennis Bergkamp (Netherlands) Luis Hernandez (Mexico) Strikers Ronaldo (Brazil) Davor Suker (Croatia) Christian Vieri (Italy) Michael Owen (England) Gabriel Batistuta (Argentina) Marcelo Salas (Chile) Ivan Zamorano (Chile)
Maybe not so easy for me as 1994 to have a clear idea of my real-time thoughts, but I've come up with some more possibles: Morocco - Hadji (AM) Norway - T.A Flo (Str) Italy - Cannavaro (CB), Maldini (FB), R.Baggio (Fwd) Chile - Acuna (CM), Sierra (CM) *Not sure which one but I was particularly impressed with one of these I seem to recall Denmark - Jorgensen (Winger?), M.Laudrup (AM?) *Depends how formation is interpreted I guess France - Djorkaeff (AM) Paraguay - Arce (FB) Nigeria - Oliseh (DM) Mexico - Blanco (Winger) Netherlands - Cocu (CM) England - Scholes (AM) Argentina - Zanetti (FB) Croatia - Boban (CM)
An attempt at my personal idea of a top 20 will be if anything more sketchy than for Euro 96 I think (maybe we will get to see more sources again from Italy etc as the thread progresses - the one on Football BlogSpot seems to require a lot of rated games maybe as the Chilean contingent are missing for example - on that one having slept on it I think probably Sierra was the midfielder I was primarily thinking of and maybe the fact Acuna played for Newcastle later triggered his name, but Sierra wasn't a constant in the team to be fair and Kicker's rating wasn't special although FF gave him a 4 vs Brazil even though he was taken off at half-time - I think in general they were very neat and tidy in midfield anyway). It doesn't necessarily mean my WC94 attempt was the most accurate or the one that would get the most agreement I guess, but out of of 3 (or 4 adding Euro 200o where I guess I'd be most confident picking out the very top players probably) it's the one I felt most comfortable doing and therefore I made the longest list too. Making an attempt though (maybe groupings would be better, but I'll number them anyway): 1 - Ronaldo 2 - Bergkamp 3 - Zidane 4 - Suker 5 - B.Laudrup 6 - Thuram 7 - Cafu 8 - Owen 9 - Lizarazu 10 - Desailly 11 - Rivaldo 12 - Blanc 13 - Davids 14 - Deschamps 15 - Campbell 16 - M.Laudrup 17 - Salas 18 - Ortega 19 - R. De Boer 20 - Veron
Some ratings from Football Ratings: Ratings: Gazzetta dello Sport - Corriere della Sera - La Repubblica - L’Unità - La Nazione - Il Giornale. 7,10: Thuram 7,00: Zidane 6,95: Davids 6,90: Mondragón 6,75: Pagliuca, Ince, Owen, Luis Hernández 6,70: Petit, Vieri 6,65: Desailly, Bierhoff 6,60: Di Biagio, Mahdavikia 6,55: B. Laudrup, R. Baggio 6,50: Barthez, Dunga, F. Cannavaro, Overmars, Šuker, Blanco, Wilmots 6,45: M. Laudrup, Deschamps, Rivaldo, Bergomi 6,40: Ronaldo, Hadji, Konsel 6,35: Verón, Lizarazu, Costacurta, F. de Boer, Seedorf, R. de Boer, Scholes 6,30: Simeone, Blanc, Boghossian, Cafú, César Sampaio, Ladić, Boban, Mboma, César Ramírez 6,25: Ortega, Helveg, Luis Enrique, Winter, Tahar, Mihajlović, Hejduk, Azizi, Arellano 6,20: Schmeichel, van der Sar, Bergkamp, Jonk, Bilić, Adams, G. Neville, Komljenović, Njanka, Daei, Bagheri 6,15: Batistuta, Henry, Cocu, Asanović, Campbell, Matthäus, El Ouaer, Nakata 6,10: Heinze, Seaman, Leighton, Collins, Wome 6,05: Almeyda, Jørgensen, Campo, Soldo, Tarnat, Bassir, S. Trabelsi, Jugović, García Aspe 6,00: Djorkaeff, Taffarel, Maldini, Stimac, Prosinečki, Šimić, Anderton, Shearer, Hamann, Dailly, Mohamedkhani, Kawaguchi, Soma, Whitmore, Kralj 5,95: Roa, Colding, Leonardo, Stam, Jarni, Jeremies, Mykland, Deflandre 5,90: J. Zanetti, Schjønberg, Karembeu, Roberto Carlos, D. Baggio, Hierro, Raúl, Reiziger, Stanić, Vlaović, Jurcić, Le Saux, Soulimani, Pashazadeh, Akita, Yamaguchi, Gardner 5,85: C. López, Chamot, Denílson, Sergi, Numan, Grodås, Lambert, Borkelmans, Petrović, Khakpour, Nanami, Pardo 5,80: Ayala, Rieper, A. Nielsen, Aldair, Moriero, Kohler, Davino, T.A. Flo, Saber, Durie, Al Jaber, Zdravkov, Nilis, Stewart, Minavand, Lozano, Germán Villa 5,75: Vivas, Diomède, Alkorta, Etxeberria, Kluivert, Beckham, Rekdal, H. Flo, Wetl, Ndo, Zubromawi, Moshoeu, Mkhalele, Balakov, Dooley, Regis, Ihara, Djorović, Jokanović 5,70: Høgh, Júnior Baiano, Di Livio, P. Møller, Klinsmann, Berg, Chippo, Fish, Suárez 5,65: Bebeto, Thon, Eggen, Pfeifenberger, Kühbauer, Song, Al Deayea, McCarthy, Reyna, Estili, Chihi, Souayah, Narahashi, Nakayama 5,60: Trezeguet, Köpke, Wörns, Riseth, Naybet, Hendry, Burley, Mählich, Vonk, Radebe 5,55: Heinrich, Feiersinger, C. Jones, Sellimi, Stojković 5,50: Guivarc’h, Pfeffer, Amin, Al Shahrani, Fortune, Iliev, Serna, Jo 5,45: Albertini, Amor, Hässler 5,40: Sand, Johnsen, Bjørnebye, Al Jahani, Bermúdez, Palacios, Valderrama, Goodison, Hall 5,35: Lara 5,30: Del Piero, Zubizarreta, T. Ivanov, Cabrera, Aristizábal, Sinclair, Stanković 5,25: Omam Biyik, Issa, Rincón, Mijatović 5,10: Schöttel 5,05: Kiko, Kishishev 5,00: Benzekri, Stoichkov
Some more from L'Equipe At least five rated appearances. 7,17 Thuram (France) 7,07 Desailly (France) 6,92 Petit (France) 6,60 B. Laudrup (Denmark) 6,40 Ortega & Verón (Argentina), Bergkamp (Holland) 6,36 Rivaldo (Brazil) 6,33 Davids (Holland) 6,30 Henry (France)
A Team of the tournament from the Times: Goalkeeper: Jose Luis Chilavert (Paraguay) One of the few who lived up to all the hype, Chilavert may not have fulfilled his dream of scoring a goal in the finals but still proved in the four games he played that he could dominate his area and stop shots like no other in this competition. Came close to scoring with a free kick in the opening game against Bulgaria but it was his almost single-handed defiance of France for 115 minutes of their second-round match that wins him the vote. Right back: Cafu (Brazil) When the rest of the Brazil defence let the side down, Cafu was impressively consistent in his solidity and edges out Lilian Thuram as the best attacking full back in this World Cup. Thuram may have scored twice in France's semi-final against Croatia but he nearly cost them the game with two defensive lapses, too. Cafu did not suffer any of those. Brazil missed him badly when he was suspended for the semi-final against Holland. Centre back: Marcel Desailly (France) The best player in the tournament, despite his foolish sending-off 20 minutes from the end of the final. Desailly kept France in the competition with his tackling and his interventions when its attack was misfiring. The most commanding player in the most assured defence, it will be a treat to watch him with Chelsea in the FA Carling Premiership. Centre back: Frank de Boer (Holland) Squeezes in front of Laurent Blanc in this position because of his majestic, gritty, fearless performance against Brazil in the semi-final in Marseilles. His last-ditch penalty-area tackle on Ronaldo when the game was deep in extra time was the bravest of the tournament. His raking pass that set up Dennis Bergkamp for his winner against Argentina in the quarter-final will also live long in the memory. Left back: Bixente Lizarazu (France) Everyone assumed that this position would be dominated by Roberto Carlos. But while the Brazilian struggled both going forward and defending, Lizarazu was a revelation. Quick, strong and possessing wonderful balance and a sweet left foot, he linked well with Petit and scored one of the goals of the tournament against Saudi Arabia. Right midfield: Jay-Jay Okocha (Nigeria) Would be playing slightly out of position here but that is part of the joy of Okocha: he looked as though he could play in any offensive role. Gary Neville said before the tournament that Okocha was the only man who had ever executed a training ground trick on him during a match and his skills were dazzling. High point was the opening game against Spain. Centre midfield: Edgar Davids (Holland) Closest rival to Desailly for player of the tournament, the strength of character that shone through in all Davids' performances were all the more impressive because of the problems that have afflicted him in the past. He played like a man possessed and was so inspirational against Brazil that Holland deserved to win because of him. Left midfield: Rivaldo (Brazil) Had a poor game in the final, but didn't they all. Faded as the tournament progressed but in the early games, he was outstanding and overshadowed the sadly out-of-sorts, palpably unfit Ronaldo as Brazil's most potent attacker. Fine pass set up Ronaldo for Brazil's goal against Holland but his best performance was probably against Denmark when he scored twice. Midfield-attack: Zinedine Zidane (France) Struggled in the early stages to live up to the huge expectations that all of France heaped upon his shoulders and missed two matches because of his foolish sending off against Saudi Arabia. But "Zizou" came good in the end. When it really mattered Zidane showed the class to inspire his team to victory against Brazil. Attack: Michael Owen (England) The pity was that we saw him all too briefly. Unwisely restrained by Glenn Hoddle until England had already thrown away their chance of winning group G, Owen left such a startling imprint in the only full match he played against Argentina that he may have taken over from Ronaldo the mantle of the world's most coveted striker. Attack: Davor Suker (Croatia) There has to be a place for Suker here even though Bergkamp, Marcelo Salas and Christian Vieri have strong claims, too. Suker was the one outstanding individual in Croatia's finely-meshed team. His clinical finishing was an example to everyone.
More teams of the tournament from The Independent: Glenn Moore (4-4-2) Chilavert Thuram Desailly Blanc Numan Ortega Dunga Davids Rivaldo Owen Ronaldo Ken Jones (4-4-2) Chilavert Thuram Desailly F de Boer R Carlos Zidane Dunga Davids Ortega Ronaldo Owen Phil Shaw (4-3-1-2) Chilavert Thuram F de Boer Desailly R Carlos Dunga Zidane Rivaldo Ortega Ronaldo Suker Paul Newman (4-4-2) Chilavert Thuram Desailly Blanc Mahdavikia B Laudrup Davids Dunga Okocha Owen Ronaldo Trevor Haylett (4-4-2) Pagliuca Thuram Desailly F de Boer R Carlos Davids Zidane Rivaldo Bergkamp Ortega Ronaldo Rupert Metcalf (4-4-2) Chilavert F Arce C Gamarra C Ayala, P Sarabia Mahdavikia Okocha Dunga Rivaldo Kluivert Batistuta Andrew Longmore (3-4-1-2) El Ouaer Cafu Desailly Ayala Zanetti Davids Aspe Rivaldo Okocha Suker Owen Adam Szreter (4-1-3-2) Ladic Thuram F de Boer Desailly Maldini Dunga M Laudrup Ortega Davids Bergkamp Ronaldo
Another team of the tournament, from Brian Woolnough of The Sun: THE All Star XI: CHILAVERT (Paraguay): A big heart, big hands and big inspiration. Only conceded two goals and who will ever forget his free-kicks from the edge of the opponents' area? Deserved to go further. CAFU (Brazil): His country plays wing-backs in a flat back four. It means incredible work-rate and Cafu managed to attack, defend and inspire all in one. A real class act. BLANC (France): Just edged out Tony Adams in my team of the tournament. Great defending and, like Adams, has a will to win beyond others. Tragedy he had to miss the final. CAMPBELL (England): Established himself as one of the game's outstanding defenders. Came into the tournament having had a torrid time in the Spurs defence but quickly regained his confidence. CARLOS (Brazil): Did not see one of his thunderous free-kicks before the final but his work-rate, his engine, is amazing. What about his chest back-pass to goalkeeper Taffarel when he was under pressure against Holland in the semi-final? Superb. DAVIDS (Holland): A non-stop player who covered so much ground. One minute on the edge of his own area, the next almost scoring. A real team player with flair and grace. A first choice for this team. DUNGA (Brazil): The boss. Led by example. Sits in front of the Brazilian defence and never flinches. His leadership is superb, tackling fierce and he never wastes a pass, short or long. And there was his near head-butt on Bebeto when he was disgusted by his team-mate's workrate. ORTEGA (Argentina): A wonderful new talent and will undoubtedly emerge as Argentina's new Maradona. His feet were the quickest in the tournament and no defender looked safe and sound against him. Inspirational skills. RIVALDO (Brazil): One of my favourites. A great left foot and he popped up when Brazil needed him most. Great strength in moving forward and did his share of work in and around his own penalty area. RONALDO (Brazil): Explosive pace, great control, goals, the air of expectancy is always there when he gets the ball - and Ronaldo was not even at his best during this World Cup. But something always happens when he is on the ball. His performance in the semi-final against Holland was awesome. OWEN (England): The new England superstar and he won the respect of the rest of the world with his stunning goal against Argentina. Every defender now will be scared of his pace. Has the world at his golden feet.
I might have been tempted with Cafu over Thuram myself, but had in mind that I thought the consensus would go the opposite way! Maybe on balance it still does, but I guess both might be nailed on ** and some sources and suggestions will reflect the idea Thuram can be *** I'm sure. Not sure if French bias could exist (on top of the peculiarities for want of a better word of having a 1-6 rating system) but he's joint top of France Football's all-time single tournament ratings from what I've seen, with Tigana and Elkjaer from Euro 84. Some support for rating Lizarazu over R.Carlos outside of the all-star selection anyway I see then.
Thuram was also the overall highest rated player according to to Kicker: http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/wm/spiele/weltmeisterschaft/1998/topspieler-der-saison.html
This page shows the scorers and the assisters: http://www.planetworldcup.com/CUPS/1998/wc98statistics.html Has to be noted though that Batistuta's total included two penalties, as well as a few with one penalty (Suker, Ronaldo). http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/...chaft/1998/elfmeter-schuetzen-der-saison.html
Yes, true - that was in mind too although I see the first selection you posted had a mention of potential costly mistakes vs Croatia (nothing as dramatic as R.Carlos vs Denmark IIRC though).
To expand, I think 5-12 would be pretty close in my mind and probably easily interchangeable. Maybe I will switch Owen with Thuram, and Rivaldo with Lizarazu to make things more attack oriented a bit, but in some ways it's hard to put Owen that high due to lack of minutes (even if that makes his output more impressive arguably too) - I guess comme might find it hard to go beyond ** based on normal methodology actually and I can understand that. Having said that, if I use a 4-1-3-2 as most appropriate formation then Owen might miss even my second XI still: 1st XI - Barthez; Cafu, Blanc, Desailly, Lizarazu; Davids; Ortega, Zidane, Rivaldo; Ronaldo, Bergkamp. 2nd XI - Chilavert; Thuram, Gamarra, Campbell, Jarni; Deschamps; R. De Boer, Veron, M.Laudrup; B.Laudrup, Suker. Focusing on that, I thought probably I'd move B.Laudrup to forwards (but playing in attack with a main striker and using the wings a lot I think winger is maybe still ok and comme might have already thought about that). Ortega perhaps to AMs. Ronald de Boer played mostly from the right of midfield but not sure wingers is best even so necessarily. Similar case for Jorgensen I think probably actually (alternatively I think AM is best for him over CM probably, if he does get listed).
My take *** consideration Lilian Thuram Marcel Desailly Ronaldo Davor Šuker Emmanuel Petit Juan Sebastián Verón Zinedine Zidane Edgar Davids Dennis Bergkamp Maybe *** probably ** Didier Deschamps Bixente Lizarazu Brian Laudrup Rivaldo Laurent Blanc Gabriel Batistuta Ronald de Boer Zvonimir Boban Other names worthy of consideration Michael Laudrup Fabien Barthez Cafu Dunga Jaap Stam Robert Jarni Luis Hernández Roberto Carlos José Luis Chilavert Thomas Helveg Youri Djorkaeff Javier Zanetti Christian Vieri Sol Campbell Jay-Jay Okocha Christian Wörns Aljosa Asanovic Wim Jonk Thierry Henry Iván Zamorano Gianluca Pagliuca Cuauhtémoc Blanco Ariel Ortega Carlos Gamarra Robert Prosinečki Marcelo Salas Fabio Cannavaro Paolo Maldini Michael Owen Roberto Ayala Celso Ayala
About the first link, one thing that caught my attention was to see 1 assist counted for Thuram. I've verified it, and it is this apparently, at 0:25 : I don't know about FIFA but I don't count this as an assist for my part. More an error (and assist) by the gk. I haven't verified for the other players.
I can never justify rating Zidane above Rivaldo for WC 98. Ronaldo Bergkamp Rivaldo Thuram Suker Zidane Davids In order
Interestingly, according to OPTA Laurent Blanc has the highest % of duels won (83.7%) and aerial duels won (95.8%) among all player recorded (from W66 to WC10 if I remember).
Yes, they award an assist where there is a single deflection it seems (even in the case of Barthez's goal kick before Henry's goal too): http://www.planetworldcup.com/CUPS/1998/groupc_fra_v_ksa.html So it's not so much about the quality and importance being judged always I think, and obviously pre-assists like Zidane before Henry's first goal, or for example Ronald de Boer before Bergkamp's header to Kluivert for the goal against Argentina, are not recorded among assists or separately.
Veron had a few quality assists this tournament. Three must be about correct. I also liked the assist for Cocu against Mexico a lot.
Although it's not quite the same as mine, this looks quite a good guideline for comme's *** top candidates maybe, considering various sources and viewpoints too (even though some would even omit Ronaldo; though despite the observations about not being at his very best or fittest even, which I agree with/observe too, maybe some sources would eventually give him more credit than their average ratings might suggest? - Bergkamp can be similar too I think but I did see Equipe rated him more as we see him especially if his great moments get extra weight in a final analysis too). I think it was a case of variable form for quite a few star players, definitely including both that you mainly talk about. Maybe my placing of Zidane ahead of Rivaldo is all down to the final game in the end - the former exceptional and decisive too, with the latter much less good than against Denmark for example.
Yes, Bergkamp's assist to Cocu was great certainly IMO too. I looked back at the introduction to England vs Argentina yesterday and they showed one clean assist by Veron to Ortega. He also got the one to Zanetti in the England game itself of course. So just one to check I guess.
Blanco never was winger ... he was an all around forward mainly and attacking midfielder in second way.
Ok mate, thanks - yes I didn';t have a really clear idea/memory about the Mexico formation in 98. Maybe the 'Blanco bounce' move on the left wing confused my memory, but ofc he was in the inside right position to score his outside of the left boot volley (I mean he was there at that moment not that the best description of where he was playing would be inside right). So he definitely didn't play from the left wing in that team in that year then? I guess AM is ok for Hadji (as far as involvement in goals goes ofc he wasn't really Morocco's main star but I do think in general he was deemed to be playing very well).